Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-6

Sækýr is Icelandic for sea cow, and these creatures of folklore looked and behaved exactly like land cattle, except for one thing. They had a balloon-like bladder on their nose, which helped them float and swim in the sea. They would come onshore and mingle with land cattle. If you could catch one, and puncture its nose-bladder, then it would have to stay on land like other cattle.

floo

(2): Prism, Fredrick A Campbell

Spartan117

(1): flow trap

Fredrick A Campbell

(1): Spartan117

quiet

(1): fairyprincess69

fairyprincess69

(1): floo

Not Voting

(1): quiet

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Revised Deadline: January 31, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Revised Countdown: (expired on 2021-01-30 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

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[Prism]

What do you mean "who are we shooting"?

Who do you want to shoot? Why are you not engaging at all with any of the pushes people are making?

This feels like scum have just gone AFK and I do not like you sitting by the sidelines at all.

For quiet, I'm very sorry to hear about what you're going through. I hope this can serve as a healthy outlet for you. Let me know if there's any play or slots you want to talk about. I think it would help to find a vote.

[Prism]

Actually I'm tired of gentle encouragement/being patient just because you've *~consistently~* been difficult all game.

I want to vote floo. If I can't get floo, and you're transparently not even sorting at all, I will absolutely vote you and feel zero remorse about it if you flip town. Even Frederick is trying.

[Prism]

That's to flow trap, not quiet, if that's unclear.

[flow trap]

You're judging a fish on its ability to fly

[Prism]

You have to take guesses and make judgments and risk being wrong. That is the game of mafia.

This is a team game. You have to do your part. Speaking as someone who feasts on town players like you as scum, you will lose against stronger tables if you do this as town, period.

If you're not good at pushing/getting reads yourself, what do you make of my point that floo is pushing Salsabil for being emotional rather than trying to discern whether or not those emotions are legitimate? If you don't favor that line of thinking, others-such as floo-have presented their own.

[Prism]

Let me be clear: I'm not trying to strongarm you into just voting floo because

that wouldn't be enough

even if floo does flip red. You need to give your opinions and make judgments in order to be accurately sorted, tonereads do not hold up in 3/5 way Elo. You need to critically engage and put in real effort into what you're doing instead of galaxy brain bluffing your way to a loss.

[flow trap]

Idk where you got the idea that I was trying to galaxy brain it

[Prism]

How can I help you succeed, flow trap? What do you, flow trap, need from other players in order to stop random voting and make an educated decision today?

[Prism]

And, more specifically, what do you feel is preventing you from making an educated decision of one currently? Or, in the event you have one already, what is preventing you from arguing for it?

[flow trap]

I'm not random voting and just because I don't state my reads doesn't mean I don't have them

[Prism]

God I wish I were scum this game but my life is not so easy.

Right, well, continue doing nothing then, don't cry about it if I or someone else votes you in 3/5 way

[flow trap]

-_-

[flow trap]

You are ignoring when I actually make reads

[flow trap]

*state reads

[Prism]

I'll go through your ISO if you want but your current vote reasoning was "I'm bored." and your read on floo was something like NAI. You aren't giving zero but you're kicking the can to someone else atm and not being proactive at all, which is deeply frustrating given that I have a read I believe very strongly in and you have not engaged with it whatsoever.

If you want to talk more about Quiet/Spartan/Salsabil slot I'm down to do so.

[Prism]

I guess saying "It's dragging, who we shooting?" is arguably proactive, but my point is if you want something you need to argue for it, and

you should either want something or find something to want

[flow trap]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I want to enjoy the game

[Prism]

If you want to talk more about Quiet/Spartan/Salsabil slot I'm down to do so.

I can actually go further here and give you more to work with.

Quiet slot I'm not 100% is town but I was a lot more worried about them being scum with Enchant than I was them being scum with someone else. I don't see him painting himself into a corner w/ all these townreads today. Safebet wasn't a great slot to me and quiet's "Oh yeah I forgot why I townread Prism" was pretty sketchy but that's about it. The unvote on Salsabil was good.

Spartan his positioning has been questionable w/ the TvS and scum on the wagon claims but has been fully able to defend virtually every position he's taken. Pushing Frederick is very plausible as scum.

I honestly didn't really read much Salsabil and just put them in the townlean tone bucket as a future project. floo is probably scum though, and while hypothetically she could have been that frustrated/busy as scum I think it's unlikely.

[Prism]

Vote order for me is something like floo -> flow trap-> Frederick -> Spartan -> quiet -> fairy but fairy is the only one that is completely off the table today for my vote.

[Prism]

My intensity for the game can be really isolating at times. I'm sorry for that, especially if you feel at all that I'm making it unfun. This is valid, and unfortunately something I really struggle to rein in.

We have something in common: We both feel that the game has stalled out. My fear is that you, or someone like you, floo, and quiet (less so the last one now in light of his most recent post) is intentionally sitting back and just waiting for us to consolidate on Frederick/Spartan/fairy.

I'm encouraging someone to toss off the bystander effect and to be the change you want to see in the world.

[flow trap]

No one has ever listened to me before in my life so idk how to argue for any point

[fairyprincess69]

Hey guys, just to confirm I am making my way thru but it's taking a fair bit longer than anticipated. Just got through esoteric's massive reads post on page 18, was like yeah this guy is obvious town, only to then realise he was night killed

Anyway, here are some thoughts I have at this stage (page 18). I think it'd be interesting to note my observations now to see how these players develop later on once I've read the whole thing.

flow trap

flow trap is an intriguing, often times irritating player to read. i think their slot is very townie at this point though. they're continually playing with a kind of reckless independence that i don't see mafia being able to pull off very well. they're trying plays and gambits and i really get the sense they're trying to actually play a game rather than trying to portray a particular image of a townie person. this seems to be catching them a lot of heat at this stage, but they're unwilling to compromise on their gameplay. lots of crypticness and evasiveness but i think there's a kind of internal logic to it that only flow trap seems to be able to understand. posts like #288 and #362 show this willingness to experiment/ have fun w it.

i think their interactions and FOS on salsabil, whilst an absolute headache to read through, is quite townie. they first vote sala on post 218, then again at 368 after they had interacted some. the read/vote seems consistent to me - sala was voted initially because of posting "fluff" (which i can see) then reinforced after unfavourable interactions. obviously i disagree with the read, but i see this as a genuine attempt at finding scum. flow trap doesn't really seem to be concerned with what other people think about salsabil either, which shows a willingness to go against town consensus.

do you guys vibe with this formatting? the linked posts don't actually link to the post just the page which is annoying. wondering how it's best to format, quotes maybe?

[Prism]

YOOOOOO WELCOME

I concur that flow trap's early game comes off as fairly town, mostly in seeing that a lot of how they choose to engage with others is consistent and probably stylistic. I also found the partner pairings town for the effort. I'm a lot more concerned by their play today but there's a big gap between my top scumread, floo, and everyone else.

[Prism]

From my experience people's eyes tend to glaze over in quote walls, so I like to go for post numbers. Post numbers are better for getting your point across to people and having them actually read your post, but harder for them to immediately verify your conclusion with their own.

It depends on the players though and I'm okay with your format, but I'm not the whole table.