TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Winter Flakes]

im not in a petty mood

yeah you were confbiased af but I've done the same so eh

[Hopkirk]

imeaniwasstilltryingtosortyou butididntlikeyouyeah

[Hopkirk]

how do you feel about A50?

[Dannflor]

hercule could have written a less detailed catalogue and then subscribed to other tendencies of his typical scum playstyle. so if he is scum, he need either present a factually incorrect outline, or holds sufficient belief that he can fool town by taking up a new way of playing as scum, whilst being aware that the amount of wifom involved makes it a comparatively frail gain. he considers both of these scenarios as low probability, with the more likely scenario being that he is speaking without chains, as a result of being town, and that there is no agenda behind what he's done.

I don't really think people (generally speaking) know intimately the differences between their scum and town play as most people just try to replicate their town game as scum. I don't think hercule believing he could make a drastic shift is necessarily town indicative. Also, if you just rolled scum twice in a row in the exact same player list I wouldn't call such a strategy "comparatively frail gain."

This feels like a more technical/in-depth thought than how people actually tend to think in practice

[Dannflor]

can you talk more about your vibes on ythan? i feel like 83 sounds the same as they did last game tonally
hope things are looking up for you soon
could you point out what IV stuff you mean? interacting with him at the time i didn't get a feeling he was forcing it at all. everyone who doesn't like IV seems to be people who came in afterwards?

Uhhh, I don't get the vibes anymore. I think me starting on Ythan just came from me skimming the thread while at work and looking for one specific thing and really hoping to find it. Ythan going "vibe vibe vibe" felt to me, like a bit of a forced joke given talking about vibes is the easiest way to vibe in this playerlist

I need to stop saying vibe. Basically, I just voted him because I didn't vibe with his joke.

Thank you btw.

Maybe forcing is the wrong phrase? It felt like he was trying too hard or just going a little too far in some areas. Every reaction to a vote on him felt like a distinctive "okay engage memey reaction to this vote," which at a certain point (especially when I voted him) felt like just hiding what he was really thinking about the game. #134, #130, #135 just felt a little over-explainy from him. Like yes, I didn't assume IV was potentially role fishing until he made that first post. The second post I just didn't vibe with as a joke. The third post was abundantly evident by what he was posting and it just feels a little too on the nose in the "yeah I'm in meme mode don't take anything I say seriously."

But also, it's entirely possible I just wasn't in a super jokey mood yesterday and that's why I didn't vibe so much. My thoughts on the IV slot have turned around entirely since he started posting actual content.

[Dannflor]

he is confused at the number of people treating mastina in an insulting way, and notes that he has mastina as locktown (????)

They fear mastina - right or wrong, she'll dig her heels in and they're afraid she'll be right.

is anyone treating mastina in an insulting way besides cephrir asking her to not post a reads list after reading every single page?

[Dannflor]

?
that's an odd view considering your wall earlier. there's a lot of stuff from A50 that feels a bit tonally off to me

I was just mad about the mostly content-less quote stripes

are there any specific lines that felt off to you?

I didn't get a read on A50 until very late in the last game, I just tend to skim this type of posting from him

[Dannflor]

VOTE: the worst

[AGar]

AGar how do you like my posting yet I am exactly the kind of player you hate Loool

Because if I based my yeet pool around players who's posting style I can't stand, my yeet pool would be at least a dozen players. Old man good at separating playstyle from whether I think you're scum or not.

feels that agar reacted disproportionately to mastina calling him null,

however he's not sure if it's alignment indicitive

[snip]

scum: agar

Emphasis mine.

So, yaknow, do you have any of your own thoughts on this game or are you just gonna pass the buck and conduit for Auro again?

this feels so overly aggressive. dislike

... Like I'm not expecting to be townread for being mad but I would think people would just get the point by now that I'm angry constantly? We really fucked up not naming our team "Old Man Yells At Cloud"

VOTE: the worst

LLD can be town. I think her case is a little flawed on Hercule, but the thought process tracks given she wasn't in the last game. I think the first four-to-five pages are largely useless shit because everyone'd been sitting on pent up anxiousness for the better part of a week.

[hercule]

hercule should sheep me. He knows I'm good.

i rolled town this time and i'm so relieved

Yaknow what?

I actually believe it.

I'm more ambivalent on DGB (she could be town, could be scum, hard to tell for sure), but I legit buy that you're town here, so.

hercule
Hopkirk
innocentvillager
OkaPoka

jjh927
Cephrir
Ythan

Almost50
AGar (null--he did check in but didn't continue to post)
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
DrippingGoofball (ambivalent--can see her as town or scum, not sure which)

Titus
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst

Dunnstral
Dannflor
Xtoxm

Locktown, townreads, various shade of nullread, candidates-for-fourth-scum, scum?

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

I don't think there's a lot to get good reads off of before this post

I'm open to Cephrir being town this time but he's going to have to show it in a way that I can interpret, because his current posting makes me want to say don't townread him so fast

Though I can understand him not liking mastina being a real thought, even from last game where he was scum

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm

pretty

sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm pretty sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

can you expound on that with anything specific?

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

Hercule was also quick to gain townreads early last game

If he rolled scum again he could easily look different to look town

People started cluing in on him as the game went on and discussion about other peoples' alignments started

What I'm trying to say is that reading him off tone on the first few pages is a bad idea, again

(It helps Hercule's entrance was garbage, but honestly I was just waiting to Mastina to post one of these lists so I can do my standard Mastina play which is just to eliminate players in inverse order of her preference.)

It wins the game more than it loses the game, and that's a fact.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

helloooooooooooooooooooo my friends it feels great to be here. i made a vocaroo reaction to my role pm but implosion said they would prefer for me not to post it so.

i will try to reel in the insufferably lamisty energy i exude but i do just want to express one thought that's fucking funny to me. i kept referring to my team as the 4/4 town gods last game cuz i told them i wanted everyone to embody our full team flipping town and let it seep into everyone's game cuz i was the only one who flipped mafia and i wanted to manifest myself as town. and then IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED lmaooo 4/4 town gods for real. they all got scumflips on d1 so time for us to do the same.

but still fuck ABR

this is the more damning post in my mind. Pre-writing is one thing if you don;t know your alignment, but this post has to have come post alignment knowledge by definition.

And it's fucking attrocious.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

Like to be clear, I could also see him prewriting that opening post, which admittedly would only be a thing that matters if he did not know his alignment at the time.

But the second post is the more damning one, and is in stark contrast to the first post as feeling far more improvisational, despite referencing an event that occurred before the thread opening.

It is guaranteed to have been done and known post alignment knowledge, which makes it alignment indicative, so we can toss aside concerns of NAI/Neutrality in favour of looking at it with a lens.

if hercule pre-wrote the entrance post then why did he post it if he's scum? saying he prewrote implies he genuinely believes that scum!him will not post that. if he's scum, he either had a change of heart and went "ehh, i'll post it anyway bc LOL" or he changed it somehow.

you can't just toss it aside and pretend it doesn't exist because he prewrote it.

If he pre-wrote it prior to knowing his alignment, it wouldn't have any tone leakage. If he is scum and chose to post it anyway, it would be for that reason and as a good entry cover to not get early wagoned.

If he's town, he does it because he wanted to post it.

and as both alignments, if he did work on it, he'd like it to see the light of day

so essentially, the first post, if written prior to seeing alignment, is unusable to read him on because even the logic for "why post it as scum" is easily found and also wifom.

Your post here is effectively contentless, because this is a prima facie concept and should be grasped simply. Why did you miss this, and why did you think it was a good idea to challenge in this way? What were you gaining?

Note that the second post is exempt from this above logic BECAUSE IT IS CONFIRMABLE that by this point he has known his alignment, prewritten or NOT.

the more i read the more im thinking im the idiot here for not grasping what you are saying and that we might be talking past each other on hercule's 1st post

I've read hercule's 2nd post and I don't get the "fucking awful" vibes that you are getting from it. He probably didn't prewrite the 2nd post so that's why it seems improvisational and I think it's fine if it references his voice reaction from 12h ago or whatever?

idk, im pretty mixed on hercule especially now that everyone is shading them but it's not like, unexpected shade to me given his posting style i guess

well i guess maybe the best way to describe my thoughts on hercule:

his first posts feel a lil performative

im starting to think the whole "i wouldn't post this as scum" thing is most likely either a) B.S. he came up with post-PM or b) something hercule actually thought on first-draft, and if he rolled scum he re-evaluated it from a scum perspective and still decided to post it

so I don't think it's that likely scum!him scrapped his whole post anymore

the idea is that with a playstyle that open, eventually town is probably going to ask you for your scum!approach last game anyway and it looks better if you pre-emptively post it yourself

but yeah maybe we can wait for hercule for more color. i enjoyed being the annoying hyperposting kitty for one day but it's time to sleep and lurk out the rest of the game

i'm like midway through catching up and i keep adding stuff to my multi-quote and i feel like this was a foolish tactic cuz im gonna end up with like 100 quotes lmao

[DrippingGoofball]

he is confused at the number of people treating mastina in an insulting way, and notes that he has mastina as locktown (????)

They fear mastina - right or wrong, she'll dig her heels in and they're afraid she'll be right.

is anyone treating mastina in an insulting way besides cephrir asking her to not post a reads list after reading every single page?

LLD

[hercule]

oops i didn't even mean to POST THEM WTF lmaooooooooooooooo

[hercule]

i thought i could quick reply and then they would stay in my big post area....... ok gimme a sec

[Cephrir]

@hop posts directed at me

If you can't understand why I dont want the game to be filled with massive walls that dont say anything, I can't help you. This is self evident to me. I'm not interested in getting dragged into dunking on mastina more; I dont have a high opinion of her mafia skill level and that's all there is to it, and I am surprised this is such a controversial idea

I am leaning town on a50 right now based on comparing him to tenet. But I dont have much faith in my ability to read him.

[Cephrir]

I wonder if the best way to play this game is to throw last game in the trash. Scum will be hyper aware they'll be compared to how they played there. It is a bit useful for getting baselines on people I dont know (e.g. I know I may be predisposed to scumread winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) and should take disliking his posts with a grain of salt) but being visibly different might not actually be a scumtell for that reason.

Dont have anyone I'm especially excited about voting rn so i wont.

[Cephrir]

Shit, I missed a good opportunity to performatively use the word vibe in that post

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: the worst

Stop voting Hercule? Why

[Dannflor]

idk i got bored

and I'm curious if jjh is thinking about anything in particular

I thought the worst's entrance was +awk alignment sooooooo

[OkaPoka]

Coming over to the duck and leaving the demi before anything really changed is a lil lame

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: reads

innocentvillager - vibing!
mastina - performative/vibing?
AGar - vibing?
Hopkirk - vibing!
Xtoxm - performative/vibing?
the worst - performative?
Winter Flakes - vibing?
Lady Lambdadelta - vibing?
hercule - performative/vibing?
Okapoka - vibing?
DGB - performative/vibing?
jjh - vibing?
Cephrir - vibing?
Ythan - performative/vibing?
Almost50 - performative??
Dunnstral - vibing

[Dannflor]

Coming over to the duck and leaving the demi before anything really changed is a lil lame

yeah I know

idk I'm just not particularly enthused by anything in this game yet

still looking forward to hercule's response!

[Cephrir]

i want to vibe with those reads, but in the end, posting them in that format is just a little too performative :/

[OkaPoka]

Fed up with spamming refresh i am

Hercule, where thou at

[hercule]

hercule should sheep me. He knows I'm good.

true my thought on innocentvillager at this point is that his tone seems different than last game (more jokey / memey). i will prob have to do a direct comparison though because my perception is skewed by the fact i was mafia last game and therefore read everyone's tone as town

i rolled town this time and i'm so relieved

Yaknow what?

I actually believe it.

I'm more ambivalent on DGB (she could be town, could be scum, hard to tell for sure), but I legit buy that you're town here, so.

hercule
Hopkirk
innocentvillager
OkaPoka

jjh927
Cephrir
Ythan

Almost50
AGar (null--he did check in but didn't continue to post)
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
DrippingGoofball (ambivalent--can see her as town or scum, not sure which)

Titus
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst

Dunnstral
Dannflor
Xtoxm

Locktown, townreads, various shade of nullread, candidates-for-fourth-scum, scum?

@mastina i was planning to push on you last game for saying stuff like this so i'm aware this could be your towngame, but now that I have to figure out your alignment I need to know: how can you possibly call anyone locktown this early? what does that mean to you? give me a little insight into how you approach scumhunting in a game like this

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

i townlean hop as well, peta had told me they hadn't been mafia in years and I think their intro would have been more stilted or forced as scum. verdict is out on iv. ceph I think seems very similar in tone to last game, I would have expected a bit more visible excitement to flip town but I'm considering to possibly just be their personality for now.

one thing about this post though: I had the exact same thought. I feel like it's pretty obvious that we have a previous game to compare and that scum are going to have to try to emulate their towngame from last game. Idk if the observation itself is that towny to me.

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

I don't think there's a lot to get good reads off of before this post

I'm open to Cephrir being town this time but he's going to have to show it in a way that I can interpret, because his current posting makes me want to say don't townread him so fast

Though I can understand him not liking mastina being a real thought, even from last game where he was scum

I don't know why I quoted this, maybe I was going to say what I said above about not sure how town indicative the thoughts contained tin the post were.

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

This is a thoughtful post and I agree with the contents

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm

pretty

sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

can you give some more detail on why you think it's a dann-scum post? I do value meta but only when it's explained in a way that's digestible for me.

While I do agree it is fairly thoughtful and the contents are objectively decent-to-good, it is very much: not a townpost.

In fact I'm pretty sure this is a Dann-scum post. In like...the 90% percentile range--it's not a lockscum beyond all shadow of doubt lockscum post from Dann, but I'm PRETTY sure it's Dann as scum here.

can you expound on that with anything specific?

lol well I know why I quoted this one then

rvs read list inc <3

oh I guess I wasn't joking

Spoiler: serious rvs analysis time

coming into the game I was trying to keep an eye out for people who were quick to try and recreate the "vibes" of last game but either felt like they were forcing it or just felt distinctly different from last game in how they went about it. Very start of this game has ythan, hopkirk, okapoka, hercule, and IV talking the most. There's no actual content here but it's the type of memey early back and forth that creates (dare I say) good vibes between people and that scum wouldn't hate to establish a foothold in (like hercule had so pointedly done at the very beginning of last game).

off the bat I do agree that hercule feels different this game. He's less shy about directly interacting with people so far and I vaguely liked that he was the one that took the initiative on the meme xtoxm wagon. I don't think his change in approach or tone are things that he wouldn't necessarily be able to do as scum, and I think watching to see if he's able to keep this same type of energy up over a longer period of time will be most indicative for him, but for now I'm comfortable putting him slightly above everyone else.

ythan was who I originally landed on as feeling somewhat suspicious out of the starting meme/vibe/hangout group. just a purely gut reaction but he felt more on the outside looking in and #83 in particular just felt like kind of a forced way to match his energy to the thread. Reading back now though, I don't really see his posting so much as trying to cement himself within the vibes (whatever the hell that actually means) as just poking around rather nonchalantly. He doesn't post that much and doesn't seem particularly desperate to be "in the vibes" which is my new term for people trying to get themselves in the early meme town block I guess?

I actually do lean town on Hopkirk. I won't go into details but I was having a terrible day at work so I think it's at least a little town indicative that Hopkirk and Hectic were sensitive to me feeling a little more dour than usual today? At least, I feel like it should be town indicative. I'm not really giving the same points to Mastina given she came in after Hopkirk and her approach feels a little less curious/thoughtful than Hopkirk's wtr to my slot. although I don't scum read her.

innocent villager I ended up switching my vote to after just one too many posts that I felt were... a little forced? Like to me, the "hahaha I'm scum no I'm not let's be silly guys" stuff was fun for the first few pages but IV seemed intent on continuing it for just a bit longer. It just felt like it crossed the line of someone trying too hard to continue the vibing shit posts while also making it 100% explicit that "I'm just shit posting guys." I dunno, just slightly more self aware than everyone else who was casually shit posting.

It also felt like an intentional choice? Is that a right read IV? It stood out to me and I'm wondering if you were trying to accomplish something specific with the "guys I'm scum" shit posts or if you just didn't want to let go of the fun

Also I'm not sure I vibe with your jump on Cephrir as I think interpreting "don't post your reads list every page" as "Cephrir must hate mastina's reads" feels like just looking for something to attack

I don't have any real thoughts on anyone else yet. OkaPoka feels the same as last game but I don't think that actually means anything for their slot. I thought the worst's pop in was kind of weird on a gut level? but I assume that's just because duck hasn't read the game yet.

Hercule was also quick to gain townreads early last game

If he rolled scum again he could easily look different to look town

People started cluing in on him as the game went on and discussion about other peoples' alignments started

What I'm trying to say is that reading him off tone on the first few pages is a bad idea, again

noted

(It helps Hercule's entrance was garbage, but honestly I was just waiting to Mastina to post one of these lists so I can do my standard Mastina play which is just to eliminate players in inverse order of her preference.)

It wins the game more than it loses the game, and that's a fact.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

helloooooooooooooooooooo my friends it feels great to be here. i made a vocaroo reaction to my role pm but implosion said they would prefer for me not to post it so.

i will try to reel in the insufferably lamisty energy i exude but i do just want to express one thought that's fucking funny to me. i kept referring to my team as the 4/4 town gods last game cuz i told them i wanted everyone to embody our full team flipping town and let it seep into everyone's game cuz i was the only one who flipped mafia and i wanted to manifest myself as town. and then IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED lmaooo 4/4 town gods for real. they all got scumflips on d1 so time for us to do the same.

but still fuck ABR

this is the more damning post in my mind. Pre-writing is one thing if you don;t know your alignment, but this post has to have come post alignment knowledge by definition.

And it's fucking attrocious.

the thing is i can see hercule prewriting his entrance idk if that makes him scum but it makes him a nerd

Like to be clear, I could also see him prewriting that opening post, which admittedly would only be a thing that matters if he did not know his alignment at the time.

But the second post is the more damning one, and is in stark contrast to the first post as feeling far more improvisational, despite referencing an event that occurred before the thread opening.

It is guaranteed to have been done and known post alignment knowledge, which makes it alignment indicative, so we can toss aside concerns of NAI/Neutrality in favour of looking at it with a lens.

I wanted to put these together. @Lady can you explain what you think is atrocious about that post? I have more to say but I want to hear you out first.

Sidenote I am a nerd yes. A big ole mafia nerd.

if hercule pre-wrote the entrance post then why did he post it if he's scum? saying he prewrote implies he genuinely believes that scum!him will not post that. if he's scum, he either had a change of heart and went "ehh, i'll post it anyway bc LOL" or he changed it somehow.

you can't just toss it aside and pretend it doesn't exist because he prewrote it.

If he pre-wrote it prior to knowing his alignment, it wouldn't have any tone leakage. If he is scum and chose to post it anyway, it would be for that reason and as a good entry cover to not get early wagoned.

If he's town, he does it because he wanted to post it.

and as both alignments, if he did work on it, he'd like it to see the light of day

so essentially, the first post, if written prior to seeing alignment, is unusable to read him on because even the logic for "why post it as scum" is easily found and also wifom.

Your post here is effectively contentless, because this is a prima facie concept and should be grasped simply. Why did you miss this, and why did you think it was a good idea to challenge in this way? What were you gaining?

Note that the second post is exempt from this above logic BECAUSE IT IS CONFIRMABLE that by this point he has known his alignment, prewritten or NOT.

I am honestly a bit surprised that my entry post is getting this much attention. It wasn't intended to have any immediate effects, rather to just lay bare my entire scum playstyle for comparison against the entirety of this game. I wouldn't have posted it as scum because it would have forced me to change my playstyle completely in a way that I'm not comfortable doing, or just wifom and hope no one actually analyzed what I said but... that would be a bit dangerous. There is some crossover between my town and scum playstyle where I try to emulate my town playstyle as scum, but I really didn't have to do any of that specifically in the first game considering no one had meta on me. I just tried to play my best scumgame.

the more i read the more im thinking im the idiot here for not grasping what you are saying and that we might be talking past each other on hercule's 1st post

I've read hercule's 2nd post and I don't get the "fucking awful" vibes that you are getting from it. He probably didn't prewrite the 2nd post so that's why it seems improvisational and I think it's fine if it references his voice reaction from 12h ago or whatever?

idk, im pretty mixed on hercule especially now that everyone is shading them but it's not like, unexpected shade to me given his posting style i guess

yeah I wrote the second post right on the spot. idk why I quoted this I feel like I had a reason but I don't really have any thoughts on it now.

well i guess maybe the best way to describe my thoughts on hercule:

his first posts feel a lil performative

that's just my style my man

im starting to think the whole "i wouldn't post this as scum" thing is most likely either a) B.S. he came up with post-PM or b) something hercule actually thought on first-draft, and if he rolled scum he re-evaluated it from a scum perspective and still decided to post it

so I don't think it's that likely scum!him scrapped his whole post anymore

the idea is that with a playstyle that open, eventually town is probably going to ask you for your scum!approach last game anyway and it looks better if you pre-emptively post it yourself

but yeah maybe we can wait for hercule for more color. i enjoyed being the annoying hyperposting kitty for one day but it's time to sleep and lurk out the rest of the game

bruh you know what I should have just said nothing. here I am tryna help y'all read me by giving away my entire scum playbook and u rly think it's possible I completely made it up. anyway yeah it's completely made up, my ACTUAL scum meta is that i always self-vote at the start of d2 as scum. every single time. if i don't self-vote at the start of D2 then i'm town. 100%. but only on mafiascum. that's my mafiascum scum meta.

VOTE: Cephrir

Well I'm never fucking listening to my teammates again.

Not a bad start

Morning friends.

This is a scum claim already. You're implicitly admitting to being "night enemies" to everyone.

VOTE: Cephrir

Well I'm never fucking listening to my teammates again.

Tbh I would've tunneled them more too if your teammates didn't hardtown Cephrir

My team's the best. We don't talk AT ALL.

Fuck I fucked up a pronoun already *him*

FTR, my pronoun is qewvueahb e'pjyp ns' ]tl / rup oouph /lm nmblbnbi

I will definitely report anyone who uses the wring pronoun too.

Spoiler: This is absolute BS

well. i am feeling pretty fuckin mad about ABR ruining the game. I put way too much effort in for a goddamn scumflip. Town had the upperhand but mafia battled really fucking hard to get out of the ABR vs. Xtoxm situation and I think came out of it pretty well positioned in the thread. I was about to case the fuck out of mastina and hopefully we could have ended the day on a town elim. It was an uphill battle for us though. I'm happy with how both scum and town played.

that being said. might as well benefit from my previous scumflip by spewing myself town. that was about the hardest i've tried after a scumflip and it's because it was so important for the team mafia dynamics to get a town win. here were my tactics:

1. use unfamiliarity with my meta to do things that are easier for me to fake as scum: ISOs, precrunched analysis, and avoid interacting in realtime in the thread except to make jokes or push back on scumreads on my own slot

2. lean on my precrunched analysis to defend townreads on my partners or scumreads on town. avoid thinking on my feet and evaluating in realtime unless it's obviously necessary

3. avoid bussing except where absolutely possible (never was going to retract tr on cephrir, had to put reasonable doubt on ABR and xtoxm considering how likely it was they were limmed that game)

4. push on reads that conveniently ignore meta about slots and push the perspective that i don't know anyone and don't care about meta

5. use the fact that the game is large as an excuse to not have to form reads. when i'm town, reads simply come naturally to me. as scum, i have to go post by post and make sure that my reads make sense. as town, i simply vibe

and finally, the quintessential block of my entire scumgame

6. reacting strongly to objectively false comments in order to summon genuine emotion

for example, super forgot that I was scum and told me a read on ythan on page 1, so I used that to firmly push back on Ythan for saying I was lying - I wasn't

now, that being said, I am typing this up pre-flip. If you are seeing this, I am probably town. I don't think I would post this if I flip mafia, the WIFOM wouldn't be worth revealing my entire playbook.

also shoutout mastina, you may have thought xtoxm vs. abr was town vs. town but your scumreads on me and Cephrir made you an absolute threat and contributed to my decision to scumcase and push you right before the game was ruined

what's BS about it?

It's in poor taste.

I agree

he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

can auro expand on this specifically

I don't really follow why that would be the case

hercule could have written a less detailed catalogue and then subscribed to other tendencies of his typical scum playstyle. so if he is scum, he need either present a factually incorrect outline, or holds sufficient belief that he can fool town by taking up a new way of playing as scum, whilst being aware that the amount of wifom involved makes it a comparatively frail gain. he considers both of these scenarios as low probability, with the more likely scenario being that he is speaking without chains, as a result of being town, and that there is no agenda behind what he's done.

actually I think this maybe was the post I was quoting because of how tired I was of hearing whether or not I would make the post I started with as mafia. You know what, let's just say I would. Completely NAI. Then can we move on, there will be plenty of time to tr me later

auro's opinion on hercule talking about his scum playstyle is that it's town indicitive
he says that scum can steal a march on a possible question about it by posting in this way, but that it would be unnecessary to go into such depth
herc believes that he will be able to earn townreads from the way he plays, which, if scum, would require confidence on hercs part that he can both make a substantial change in the way plays scum, and also get townread doing it
he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

he criticizes llds push on hercs 2nd post, saying repeated attacks have been made but no explanation of why it is scum indicative
why scum, as opposed to exhilarated town? does she expect the hercule is disingenuous in his belief that his team has players that are strong in town roles?

he is confused at the number of people treating mastina in an insulting way, and notes that he has mastina as locktown (????)
feels that agar reacted disproportionately to mastina calling him null, however he's not sure if it's alignment indicitive

at this point he offers a readslist:
town: mastina, hercule, iv, ceph
scum: agar, lld, dgb

his stomach feeling on a50 is scum. i've told him that i veto any d1 a50 vote wishes he has.

I don't like:

• The read on herc is super convoluted, it goes back and forth and I don't understand why auro leans town on it. His approach isn't commonly seen, and personally I am unable to ascribe a lean in any direction, I fail to comprehend how anyone can feel so strongly about it.
  
• Scumreading LLD for her aggressive scum read of hercule without considering that an aggressive town read is just as bizarre.
  
• Completely unexplained scum read on me (also I know it's wrong, so there's that).

I like:

• Scumreading LLD for her aggressive scum read of hercule is a reasonable position to take in isolation.
  
• Noticing AGar flinching when poked with a null read.

Xtoxm, please ask your other team members for reads while the game is still young and it won't take them an eternity.

I agree that scumreading LLD seems a bit premature given we don't really know the context of what she disliked about my second post. I really want some XTOXM content this game and not Auro content. Xtoxm walk us through your range of emotions and thoughts between the game being ruined to now. That's all I wanna hear

Hectic's thoughts (enjoy them while we’ve got them, i asked Flopz but he just said lol and insulted me a bit when I suggested that he might want to read the game)
- Herc’s ‘4 town gods’ comment felt fake because it wasn’t funny. Herc said it was funny and hectic disagrees.
- liked Dann's RVS analysis as parts felt natural. It didn’t feel forced/he wasn’t rushing to get involved and look town. Hectic disagrees with my dislike because ‘it being off in terms of vibes’ is less important than dann getting good things out of it.
-A50 usually easiest to read when being over the top/having fun- feels town. we talked about this one a bit more and hectic agreed it feels a bit more over the top and forced than normal- but that not having much scumhunting in it probably makes it town indicative

Well it was fucking funny to me. I want to say that maybe I just explained it poorly (I explained it great in the vocaroo) but it could also just be one of those inside joke things. Whatever fuck u

-------------------------

I have townlean on

Hopkirk
OkaPoka
DrippingGoofBall

i want to townlean mastina but i also want to understand mastina first

null on everyone else

extreme null on titus and winter flakes

[hercule]

I wonder if the best way to play this game is to throw last game in the trash. Scum will be hyper aware they'll be compared to how they played there. It is a bit useful for getting baselines on people I dont know (e.g. I know I may be predisposed to scumread winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) and should take disliking his posts with a grain of salt) but being visibly different might not actually be a scumtell for that reason.

Dont have anyone I'm especially excited about voting rn so i wont.

yeah maybe but I think scum trying to emulate last game will be forced like... you can't just completely emulate your town game, you have to still make organic reads