Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[floo]

So who is letting you drive a miselim in a townFloo world then?

FlowTrap? Fred (that’s not precisely fair). Like, who is watching this happen?

I'd say Spartan (whatever alignment) would be a major reason for my wagon. The player with the most elaborate and confident townread on me focuses on pushing Fredrick instead of fairy or Prism (who are more relevant to my situation).

[Prism]

Now would be a great time to hear from our good friend flow trap, if you're lurking around at all

[quiet]

I'd say Spartan (whatever alignment) would be a major reason for my wagon. The player with the most elaborate and confident townread on me focuses on pushing Fredrick instead of fairy or Prism (who are more relevant to my situation).

This feels like a very very telling post after flips+kills tonight.

[floo]

Not to say Spartan is scum or has an unequivocal obligation to rescue me. If he is town, legitimately scumreads Fredrick but doesn't scumread Prism or fairy, it's fine for him.

[fairyprincess69]

finding quiet continually positing town[enchant] theories but not willing to unvote or provide another name to be slightly obnoxious

On the topic of this + positing the locktown enchant or elim thing:

What other name was there day1? It’s practically RVS and enchant dominated the discussion from the moment I replaced in. From my perspective, and I stand by this, in that circumstance you have literally two options: locktown and don’t second guess as much as scum will try to get you to, or if you fear that you might waver on that, then elim with extreme prejudice. It’s a polarizing spot where they have to be either exactly scum or exactly town, and frankly, I wasn’t ready to gamble the rest of the game on them being town and never rethinking that read.

Who else would you have elimmed day1?

why on earth are the two options locktown or elim? i find these polarizing options baffling - if you're starting to suspect there's a world where enchant is town, why don't you unvote and look for those other names? you're umming and ahhing over this enchant wagon constantly but you never unvote. i just find the progression of [enchant could be locktown -> floo please hammer] in the space of a few minutes to be ... strange.

[quiet]

Chaos god, we summon you!

Looking particularly for your guidance in these most troubling times on the slots of Spartian and Floo.

Thoughts on the peanut gallery of fairy, myself, and Prism are also welcome.
A soulread on Fred works too if there’s some sort of ritual for that.

[fairyprincess69]

>Maybe I should have considered Fred there, but Fred was seen as a decent enchant partner, so at that point why not just elim enchant?

was fred scummier to you than enchant?

also UNVOTE: quiet

[quiet]

why on earth are the two options locktown or elim? i find these polarizing options baffling - if you're starting to suspect there's a world where enchant is town, why don't you unvote and look for those other names? you're umming and ahhing over this enchant wagon constantly but you never unvote. i just find the progression of [enchant could be locktown -> floo please hammer] in the space of a few minutes to be ... strange.

It was late in the day, I was up skiing that day if I recall correctly, and I literally do not think we EVER get away from a vote on someone who openclaimed mafia after thinking they got hammered. EZ, conftown with a cop ability that could have actually just determined it next day, ALSO decided to just yeet them. Scum doesn’t even need to be on that wagon.

Maybe you’re right and we could have tabled the slot for the day, but the slot was a ticking time bomb of a miselim to the point where they actively tried to get themselves elimmed. From my perspective, miselims get more and more harmful as it gets later in the game. I would love to see a world where I thought they could play towny in the future and shore up my read, but they were actively suicidal which means they could easily just throw more scummy stuff later, so for me it came down to just locking them one way or another and either removing the issue at the start, or deciding that no scum ever game throws exactly like that, and therefore they must just be a suicidal/illogical towny that is going to get carried until the endgame.

At a thousand posts, I gave up on trying to make the hard call and just wanted it to end, so we could move forward.

[quiet]

No, lurkey LHF Fred was not as scummy as “oh I’m hammered, GGs I was mafia goon” enchant. Fred was in large part considered scummy by proxy with Enchant. I bring them up now because elimming them yesterday simplifies today a bit/I think they are a bit of a coin flip which I hate doing day1 way less than I do day2.

[Prism]

i thought his treatment of EZ was scummy in that EZ's massive wallpost did nothing to change spartan's read of him. he didn't really engage with many of the reads made in that post. he eventually downplays his fos on EZ (which coincides with other people townreading EZ at this point) and focuses on Fred. i don't think he really tries to get fred voted out at this point though. his defense of Enchant is a townlean for me, but only because it's consistent with his earlier townread on enchant. but after dropping a townread on Enchant and his thoughts on fred, he pretty much dips out of the thread and lets the wagon happen without much resistance.

Rereading, I think I take more issue w/ the timing of his vote swap. Not engaging with the wall makes sense given that he was making a giant global catchup. The reason for backing off of esoteric is

fine

but not great.

The defense of Enchant is questionable and he's noticeably pivoting more to quiet in it.

[Prism]

Skipped a sentence there-I shut down an Esoteric vote pretty hard, he could have kept vanity voting but it makes sense to start pushing quiet/Frederick for the next day.

[Prism]

also can we stop voting quiet thank you

[Prism]

why on earth are the two options locktown or elim? i find these polarizing options baffling - if you're starting to suspect there's a world where enchant is town, why don't you unvote and look for those other names? you're umming and ahhing over this enchant wagon constantly but you never unvote. i just find the progression of [enchant could be locktown -> floo please hammer] in the space of a few minutes to be ... strange.

I mean I did the same thing when I saw the wall though I can't remember the timing, that feeling of being torn between two extremes is very performative, you're right, but I think it's natural in light of how bizarre Enchant was playing. Enchant was straight up lying about the timeline even at the EoD.

[Prism]

WAIT THAT'S AN UNVOTE

OKAY WE'RE GOOD, NO EATING EACH OTHER

[Prism]

floo, you down to vote Spartan with me/Fairy?

[floo]

Prism looks really bad if I'm voted out today. I think Prism being scum only makes sense if Fairy is scum though. I'm not scumleaning Prism atm, but I find that becoming more annoyed, stressed, and determined on single-handedly saving the town creates a good excuse for leading a miselim.

yet annoyance/stress were not plausibly town for Salsabil lmao

FWIW I definitely put too much pressure on myself as town, but I 100% just AFK and let the deadline do the work for me here as scum.

This is misrepresenting my opinion. There is a chance that you are scum, and your annoyance/stress is faked to give you an excuse to stay alive on D3. Your motivations are different from Sal. If you are town, your annoyance is less about hiding away from the issue and instead confronting it by getting a vote. You are voting out a town, which is anti-town, but a town!Prism's underlying strategy of voting out a scumread is pro-town. Sal's strategy was definitely anti-town, even on the off-chance that her slot is town.

I find it interesting that your tone has become more confrontational over D2 toward me. I am calmly responding to you by explaining my motives. If Sal had also explained her motives like good town trying to solve the game, I would not be scumreading her at this point. I wanted to see this kind of reaction because it would show that she does more than fearfully avoiding discussion.

[Prism]

Okay I'm about to have to run, I do have plans for tonight but they shouldn't take more than 2 hours and I will 100% be around the ~3/4 hours as we approach deadline to vote anywhere I'm needed.

In the meantime:

VOTE: Spartan

flow trap, Fred, Spartan need to get in here and participate more.

[Prism]

Okay I'm running late but you're right in that that post was a bit meanspirited, I'm still skeptical that her not playing optimally is that scummy given that she definitely had reason to be upset as town. I know you're making a substantive difference claim in that I played optimally while being annoyed while Sal didn't, but I again don't think this is very AI. Either way, I don't think your treatment of her makes sense which is what prompted the comment, but that doesn't mean I have to be a dick about it.

Definitely have been more confrontational today. I didn't like you fencesitting on the harder slots and getting you to engage with my content has been incredibly difficult. You've implicitly refused to weigh in on my alignment repeatedly throughout the game, even now you're looking to avoid a 1v1 but have been very reticent to acknowledge it as being because you think I'm town. You've left it very ambiguous the entire way.

[floo]

Floo! Also if you could give some context to your salsa metadive, and yes gut feel on fairy.

I wanted to see if this was Sal's playing style, so I looked at her profile -> View Topics. I found one game, and the others looked like they were ongoing.

[Prism]

to be clear, still fully expect this to flip town atm, but i'm not getting my first choice and i'm not the town dictator so

OKAY, SEE YOU LATER, WHY AM I LIKE THIS

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-8

Perhaps the most famous of Icelandic monsters are the trolls. They're said to vary in size between human and huge, but not as big as the largest trolls of Norway are said to have been (literal mountain trolls). Náttrölls (night trolls) were turned to stone by sunlight.

Spartan117

(2): flow trap, Prism

quiet

(1): Spartan117

floo

(1): Fredrick A Campbell

fairyprincess69

(1): floo

Not Voting

(2): quiet, fairyprincess69

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Revised Deadline: January 31, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Revised Countdown: (expired on 2021-01-30 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Prism]

quiet, why have you not placed a vote at all btw?

Sorry for continuing to check in, this game has become very personal to me, both because of who I am as a player and my history with fferyllt

[Prism]

I don't want to lose, in short, and am risking a lot by going against my scumread to do so. This is more than a single vote to me.

[floo]

Wait you haven't explained clearly. You vote a townlean (Spartan) vs me (a scumread), why?

[fairyprincess69]

It's irrationally defensive at best, arrogantly scummy at worst. The underlying thought process in any case is "I'm so towny, how could someone scumread me?"

floo i find your basis to begin scumreading salsa confusing - doesn't this indignation suggest a town mindset rather than a scum one?