Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]


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Post Post #1175 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:18 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1173, Imperium wrote:I still don't like your response. I have a lot more faith in your ability to read the natural progression of a conversation and you acting like something is what is demonstrably is not is worrisome for your alignment.

Think you're displaying an agenda there you wouldn't if you were town.
w h a t

this is so far out there i don't know what to say, it's ridiculously unfair to expect me to meticulously remember every detail of a thread when i'm basically trying to speedrun the entire thing
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Post Post #1176 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:18 am

Post by Imperium »

yuck
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Post Post #1177 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:20 am

Post by Imperium »

In post 1175, petapan wrote:
In post 1173, Imperium wrote:I still don't like your response. I have a lot more faith in your ability to read the natural progression of a conversation and you acting like something is what is demonstrably is not is worrisome for your alignment.

Think you're displaying an agenda there you wouldn't if you were town.
w h a t

this is so far out there i don't know what to say, it's ridiculously unfair to expect me to meticulously remember every detail of a thread when i'm basically trying to speedrun the entire thing
bruh

I didn't. In fact we had a conversation, I laid out what actually happened, and you went meh I like my agenda theory better.

I even directed you to where the conversation started. If you cared, if you actually were looking for alignments and to see if you agreeing with Dunnstral made any kind of sense, you'd have checked.

You didn't.
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Post Post #1178 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:24 am

Post by unwnd »

In post 1174, petapan wrote:my early assumption about norfolk was that he was just the lazy "consensus scum" pick but now i'm seeing a lot of people flot him as scum but not have him at the bottom of their readlists which is always a big warning sign, when a bunch of people are going "yeah he's scummy BUT how about so-and-so..." that tells you there are people who don't really want him shot which is a pretty strong sign just by gamestate that he's scum
I don't disagree with this in hindsight? The only thing that gives me very slight pause is people like Dunn coming in and saying 'norfolk has been called obv scum or even null we should just shoot him'. What's your read on Dunn right now or perhaps other topics of interest such as (STT, Duchess)?
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Post Post #1179 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:26 am

Post by Imperium »

My computer legit will not let me quote petapan's posts, but suffice it to say this is very disingenuous coming from peta.

I'll try to figure out what's going on on my computer or go to another one later.
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Post Post #1180 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:27 am

Post by Imperium »

Except for thet 1177 above. it's weird.
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Post Post #1181 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:29 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1114, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Exhausted. I can't post much tonight, but I can do a little bit.
In post 1074, petapan wrote:
In post 812, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Because now we know all of Lotus's interactions were genuine, this gives us meat to dig into their interactions with and see if the other side of them looks genuine as well. Stop being deliberately obtuse.
did this ever happen or is it just a thing you made noise about
It's something I've been intending to do but you may have noticed that practically as soon as the "BAD SHOT WHAT A DOOFUS TOWN'S DOOMED" crap died down I had my life fall even more to pieces and have been barely able to manage more than like what, five? of my normal wallposts in the past two days. On top of that, I had to deal with STT being obvscum (until Bayesian-bot evidence proved that scummy actions are NAI for them) and people following up on shit I asked them for all the way back when I actually DID have time.

Give me a fucking break.

I still absolutely think it's a thing worth doing but I do not have the time or the energy to do it at this point in time. If someone else does it I will be exceedingly grateful, but I'm expecting no one will, and that they won't get what I will out of it, so I intend to get to it when I have a chance even if someone else DOES do it. Probably, if luck is with me, I will do it tomorrow, but I can't actually promise it in my current condition so don't get all evil-rubbing-hands-together-moo-hoo-ha-ha-ha about this if I miss it either.

For the record, if you didn't mean this in a snarky "oh so you are just providing filler huh?" way, and my response seems harsh, please be aware that I'm fucking exhausted and sick and hungry and am just typing this in bed until I pass out and I made a pretty clear request to delay asking me shit until I got back to the damn game, so I'm more than a little annoyed that I get on to say "yeah I got some time for something if anyone needs anything" and have to immediately respond to some snarky fucking shade-throwing frivolous bullshit from someone who should know at least a bit of the way I play, and on the /same goddamn page/ that I said "hey hold your questions thanks" no less. So I might be a tiny little bit disinclined to give you the benefit of the goddamn doubt here.
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Post Post #1182 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:30 am

Post by Imperium »

also agenda driven
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Post Post #1183 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:36 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1178, unwnd wrote:
In post 1174, petapan wrote:my early assumption about norfolk was that he was just the lazy "consensus scum" pick but now i'm seeing a lot of people flot him as scum but not have him at the bottom of their readlists which is always a big warning sign, when a bunch of people are going "yeah he's scummy BUT how about so-and-so..." that tells you there are people who don't really want him shot which is a pretty strong sign just by gamestate that he's scum
I don't disagree with this in hindsight? The only thing that gives me very slight pause is people like Dunn coming in and saying 'norfolk has been called obv scum or even null we should just shoot him'. What's your read on Dunn right now or perhaps other topics of interest such as (STT, Duchess)?
dunn just seems like his usual self tbh

STT i still have questions for i'm not gonna pronounce a verdict just yet but them having me as toptown almost immediately is ???

didn't like how duchess started the game at all, whole opener felt fake and trying to look town, nothing after has felt town, the way they were pushing cakez kinda made me question it but starting to see cakez town has me going back to duchess just being scum, i don't have concrete reasoning there based on stuff they've said but just on gut, scum
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Post Post #1184 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:38 am

Post by unwnd »

Yeah I could just have a preemptive read on Dunn, I'd like to consider him a shot sooner, not later however because his ambiguity is just gonna deter the game eventually
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Post Post #1185 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:38 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1177, Imperium wrote:
In post 1175, petapan wrote:
In post 1173, Imperium wrote:I still don't like your response. I have a lot more faith in your ability to read the natural progression of a conversation and you acting like something is what is demonstrably is not is worrisome for your alignment.

Think you're displaying an agenda there you wouldn't if you were town.
w h a t

this is so far out there i don't know what to say, it's ridiculously unfair to expect me to meticulously remember every detail of a thread when i'm basically trying to speedrun the entire thing
bruh

I didn't. In fact we had a conversation, I laid out what actually happened, and you went meh I like my agenda theory better.

I even directed you to where the conversation started. If you cared, if you actually were looking for alignments and to see if you agreeing with Dunnstral made any kind of sense, you'd have checked.

You didn't.
you're overreacting
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Post Post #1186 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:39 am

Post by Imperium »

In post 1185, petapan wrote:
In post 1177, Imperium wrote:
In post 1175, petapan wrote:
In post 1173, Imperium wrote:I still don't like your response. I have a lot more faith in your ability to read the natural progression of a conversation and you acting like something is what is demonstrably is not is worrisome for your alignment.

Think you're displaying an agenda there you wouldn't if you were town.
w h a t

this is so far out there i don't know what to say, it's ridiculously unfair to expect me to meticulously remember every detail of a thread when i'm basically trying to speedrun the entire thing
bruh

I didn't. In fact we had a conversation, I laid out what actually happened, and you went meh I like my agenda theory better.

I even directed you to where the conversation started. If you cared, if you actually were looking for alignments and to see if you agreeing with Dunnstral made any kind of sense, you'd have checked.

You didn't.
you're overreacting
you're scum.
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Post Post #1187 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:46 am

Post by petapan »

nah
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Post Post #1188 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:47 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1122, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 1121, Not_Mafia wrote:Why do you want to give me the gun?
its more like i want to find out your allignment
weird post
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Post Post #1189 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:51 am

Post by petapan »

i find it odd that like no one was talking about n_m until i replaced in and then i say he has a strong chance to be scum and there was this flurry of posts about him a few pages later
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Post Post #1190 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:53 am

Post by petapan »

meh quick check on wheme's meta says this is just how he plays so i don't actually think he's scummy
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Post Post #1191 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:59 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1134, ScrewTheTells wrote:Well I had the impression that Lotus was in a similar head-space as us, so I expect he'll shoot one of our top suspects or at least someone we wouldn't mind too much shooting either. In any case I had no fear that Lotus would fire the gun randomly at a weird target. That's why I was like...Imperium, are you trying too hard for the LAMIST theatre? I think it's obvious Lotus will not shoot immediately. How do you even mis-read Lotus's style that much?
which ones, exactly? because in my chart the only place i have where your scumreads overlap with his are on norfolk, n_m, and rockhopper
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Post Post #1192 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:14 am

Post by Imperium »

So why peta's interaction is disingenuous and 1175 is a bit of an overreaction from him is this:

In - Peta says that Dunn is saying what he's thinking regarding people egging on the Lotus shot.

For me this initially sounded odd. Peta is a good player and supposedly is reading along in real time. I actually understood Dunnstral's point because heat of the moment jumping to a conclusion is something that happens right after a miselim, etc. Could Dunnstral be scum here, sure, but for me it seemed reasonable in that moment. The reason I don't like it from Peta, is that Peta read some of what happened after the shot and then was supposedly reading the game through that point, which means he would have been reading as the flow of the conversation and recognized the conversation for what it was. He would have also seen that Netflix didn't say he was shooting that day until after we had made those posts.

In Peta responds to unwnd's thoughts about Dunn's assertion above that the shot was egged on. And in it he states that "it's notable that they went for the hero shot on a player that wasn't scumread by many except for, like, duchess, and suddenly folks who hadn't discussed him at all were like "eh yeah sure"

Except this isn't what happened, not in the context of the conversation, nor is it true that the people he's pointing out hadn't discussed him before, and I ask him who did that.

in Peta posts unwnd's and my for examples.

In I respond with this "I asked because I knew you were including me, but those are points that had been brought up previously by me and nacho. Nacho had an interaction with lotus in which he demonstrated suspicion of his points on duchess. I had already made that statement to which Lotus had asked me to elaborate on and I told him I'd get Nacho to elaborate earlier in the day. None of that was new, and was part of a conversation Netflix and Chill and I were having about the majority of the playerlist.

I don't know if you're just doing iso work here, but those thoughts I had at that moment did not come out of nowhere.

and in "Also I'm pretty sure that both of those posts by me and unwnd came before he said he was definitely shooting."

In he responds with this "i'm reading in real time but not taking notes or anything of the like since i'm disorganized. i can see there was mention of it previously but it was never really fleshed out"

So what I'm saying in is that Lotus was previously mentioned several times by me and Nacho, we already had concerns, and I didn't state anything different in in the conversation we were having with Netflix. I reiterated that I had concerns but that I hadn't reread to flesh that out.

The problem I have with this and the issue I brought up to Nacho this morning is that I have a really hard time believing this is a conversation town Peta makes. I have serious doubts even a skimming Peta wouldn't recognize there was an actual conversation happening and recognize that. He then makes a baseless accusation of Lotus not being discussed before, but when I point out that's incorrect, it becomes "not fleshed out" which I mean exactly. In the post , I mention concerns that I need to reread to clear up.

In , I state "It was never fleshed out, you're correct, but i find it not notable but odd that you didn't recognize that it was part of a conversation about players that had started at . Yes, he at that point said he was thinking lotus, and I restated my previously stated points - my little pings that I wanted to reread and flesh out, which I would have done regardless of who he said. We were in a conversation, one in which he had just stated not too long before that he wasn't going to be shooting right away. (Just double checked this; he said he wanted to give us a chance to get our thoughts out there the night before.) Anyway, there was no indication that he was shooting right then until after that point when he said he was shooting and gave his reads list. I get Dunnstral in the moment thinking it looked that way, but I guess I don't really understand how you don't recognize it for the conversation that it was."

So here, I tell him where the conversation begins. If he's speed-reading and not keeping notes, that's fine. I figure town!Peta, if he's really interested in seeing if this theory makes sense will look back and interact with that conversation, but instead he replies with this:

In : meh, like i said i am shotgunning this thread pretty much as quickly as possible without writing down anything and i'm probably gonna miss some details but the timing of it was conspicuous, i don't doubt that no one really believed they were going to hero shoot right that instant, but that's not really as important to as it was the reaction to them entertaining the shot at that moment

So instead of going back and seeing if his theory makes sense he again harps on the conspicuous timing.

In I say "I still don't like your response. I have a lot more faith in your ability to read the natural progression of a conversation and you acting like something is what is demonstrably is not is worrisome for your alignment.

Think you're displaying an agenda there you wouldn't if you were town."

But his response is this:

In : "w h a t

this is so far out there i don't know what to say, it's ridiculously unfair to expect me to meticulously remember every detail of a thread when i'm basically trying to speedrun the entire thing"

I know he calls me overreacting later, but this is actually an overreaction. I never told him to remember every detail of the thread. I told him when the conversation started about the reads, so that he could verify that it was an actual conversation about reads, which I think he would do if he were really trying to figure out our alignments. Instead it's now about remembering the details. This makes no sense coming from town peta. I respect the fuck out of peta. I don't expect him to always get my alignment right; think he has as hard of time reading me as unwnd does, but I do think that peta, if town, would recognize that that was a conversation happening and not egging on, and I think if he were actually wondering if his initial impression was correct he'd go back and check when I pointed out where the conversation happened. I don't think he would just be like well you can't expect me to remember everything.

The fact that he didn't is
notable
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Post Post #1193 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:25 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 1166, unwnd wrote:No, but I would wonder why you believe that
Because I just find it odd how much you're defending me when you usually suspect me if anything
In post 1174, petapan wrote:and it also occurred to me that, tactically, OMGUSing cakez is a terrible move in the world where imperium is scum and cakez is town because it gets them nowhere. like, if they're scum their goal here is to endgame and cakez is basically the only one likely to shoot them so they'd have to discourage a cakez shot, at least right now, and from that perspective, the whole read there starts looking very political and ingenuine, and they're one of maybe a couple people in this game i'd expect to be thinking that way about who they call to get shot
This thought occurred to me earlier when I made my post about Imperium switching tactics
In post 1189, petapan wrote:i find it odd that like no one was talking about n_m until i replaced in and then i say he has a strong chance to be scum and there was this flurry of posts about him a few pages later
tbh I forgot about him
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Post Post #1194 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:29 am

Post by MUSHSHAGANA »

Okay, petapan. Let me just say, I'm very, very sorry I haven't "done anything" this game. I'm sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologetic that I'm lugging everything I own in this world from airbnb to motel room to Starbucks patio on a semi-regular basis, sometimes multiple times a day, while running errands from government center to doctor's office with a ton of busywaiting to try and get out of the mess I'm in. I apologize for barely having the time to eat on some days. I certainly apologize for the fact that I literally /didn't/ yesterday.

Please, allow me to say, I am extraordinarily, deeply sorry. Downright aggrieved on your behalf. I offer my deepest condolences.
/But you will just have to put up with it./

If that sucks for you, maybe imagine how much goddamn worse it sucks for me before you start saying I should be doing more.

Check my damn postcount and tell me I ain't doing anything again. Check how many slots I've put hard pressure on and tell me I'm not doing anything. Or, you know, give me a bit of goddamn slack for the circumstances. I'm making statements of intent for others to hold me accountable, some days I have more free time than others and I clearly haven't had shit recently, I keep the playerlist up to date on what to expect from me, it's only been like 3 or 4 damn days or something, back the fuck up.

You don't want a rant, don't talk shit about things that are beyond my control and semi-temporary.
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Post Post #1195 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:29 am

Post by unwnd »

In post 1193, SirCakez wrote:Because I just find it odd how much you're defending me when you usually suspect me if anything
I don't feel this is true?

Xeno 2 I tried to give you a life raft (incorrectly)
Fake Peoples I townread you (correctly)
And then some other games not worth talking about
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Post Post #1196 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:31 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1157, RLotus wrote:I think scum are trying to direct my shot to someone who will shoot the gf. I see three instances of this if my theory is correct, one of which is not well hidden whatsoever. And one instance has been doubled back on because I made it clear it won't work.

I'm being vague I know but I wonder if anyone will see what I see to maybe reaffirm me. My reads/shot isn't locked in whatsoever btw I am flip flopping a lot.
1. i think very few people in this game would be thinking that far in advance as scum. most people are just going to try to get town shot
2. scum don't want the godfather shot if they can help it, they want town to be shot above all else. if someone WERE trying to specifically direct your shot, i don't know why you'd assume it would be on someone who'd shoot godfather and not, yknow, town, which would cause us to lose the game.
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Post Post #1197 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:39 am

Post by MUSHSHAGANA »

In post 1196, petapan wrote: 1. i think very few people in this game would be thinking that far in advance as scum. most people are just going to try to get town shot
2. scum don't want the godfather shot if they can help it, they want town to be shot above all else. if someone WERE trying to specifically direct your shot, i don't know why you'd assume it would be on someone who'd shoot godfather and not, yknow, town, which would cause us to lose the game.
Also, this isn't necessarily true. If all the townies are primarily scumreading scum, then the godfather would be the preferred target. This is unlikely, it is not impossible.

If I were looking for that, I'd look for a /universal scumread/, one with absolutely no one arguing against it. Especially one that was debated for awhile, then brought to the table by multiple players only AFTER a failed attempt to get scumreads off of other players (possibly multiple people trying to salvage the same slot, though not necessarily). Hey, just had an idea, maybe looking into that is something petapan can do. You know, so he doesn't have to worry about being accused of /not doing anything/.
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Post Post #1198 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:41 am

Post by Imperium »

Oh forgot I kinda think that STT's first real post about MUSH where he gets after her for mentioning a change in meta due to real life circumstances might actually come from town. Nacho originally thought it came from scum because it was slimy, but I think that might be why it comes from town. Think town might actually legitimately be paranoid about that type of thing while I think scum, knowing she's telling the truth, would shy away from that point because they'd know they were being slimy. Would like to believe my interpretation is correct there.
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Post Post #1199 (ISO) » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:42 am

Post by petapan »

In post 1194, MUSHSHAGANA wrote:Okay, petapan. Let me just say, I'm very, very sorry I haven't "done anything" this game. I'm sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologetic that I'm lugging everything I own in this world from airbnb to motel room to Starbucks patio on a semi-regular basis, sometimes multiple times a day, while running errands from government center to doctor's office with a ton of busywaiting to try and get out of the mess I'm in. I apologize for barely having the time to eat on some days. I certainly apologize for the fact that I literally /didn't/ yesterday.

Please, allow me to say, I am extraordinarily, deeply sorry. Downright aggrieved on your behalf. I offer my deepest condolences.
/But you will just have to put up with it./

If that sucks for you, maybe imagine how much goddamn worse it sucks for me before you start saying I should be doing more.

Check my damn postcount and tell me I ain't doing anything again. Check how many slots I've put hard pressure on and tell me I'm not doing anything. Or, you know, give me a bit of goddamn slack for the circumstances. I'm making statements of intent for others to hold me accountable, some days I have more free time than others and I clearly haven't had shit recently, I keep the playerlist up to date on what to expect from me, it's only been like 3 or 4 damn days or something, back the fuck up.

You don't want a rant, don't talk shit about things that are beyond my control and semi-temporary.
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if i have personally offended you and i am
sorry
you're having to put up with a lot of crap but fucking miss me with this heavy handed emotional appeal garbage i'm so sick of people pulling this shit in games it's the most obnoxious garbage, like you're the only important person in the world and that gives you a license to just be as brutally unpleasant as possible to anyone who DARES accuse you

shit like this is everything i hate about the game right now




anyway


remind me who you've hard pressured, exactly? because in my view it adds up to a whole lot less than the amount of time you've spent talking about yourself and your intricate web of plans you're laying, one whose end results are...what, exactly?
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