Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[Spartan117]

A few days ago, I bought into the over-defensive Salsa as scum world. Getting to the point of replacing out? Then being replaced by someone who entered the game in exactly the manner I did as town, giving rather good reads as far as I can determine? My only concern is that Fairy’s read on flow trap felt a little sheepy, but I realized they were a little more reserved on that, so I’m tabling that suspicion for now.

I don't see why a new person with a new perspective/views/reads, should remove the previous view you had on sal, they are both the same slot and alignment and I feel you are throwing everything out the window from your view on sal from some iniital good reads from fairy which I believe were from the beginning of the game? which wouldn't exactly be hard to fake given all of the content is there after and as scum its possible to backtrack. I personally had townie vibes from Sal I felt like the emotion they spoke with was genuine of frustrated townie and I could relate especially with the annoyance with flow trap and the like. Although I agree with some of the points that floo made regarding Sal and was going to make them to sal to see what they thought myself before she switched out which I state I was going to do but was preoccupied with fredrick at the time and that along with restrictions of time from irl events got in my way. I had already originally seen even from day 1 situations where Sal had reacted in a way that presented itself as scared of being read as scum which I feel is not something town are as bothered about as scum are, with the player numbers dynamic it is much more crushing to get lynched as scum in terms of your chances to win with there only being 1 other scum left while for town if they are lynched there are several others depending on the day to continue to scum hunt to achieve a win. Anyway I fully agreed that there were defo signs from sal of concern from being scum reads with the use of emojis and dismissive language. Now ofc this isnt something we are likely to see from fairy they are a completely different person with different tells and personality so it is futile to expect to correspond the two in the same way. at the end of the day the only thing these two people share is the alignment of their slot so it requires a completly fresh look but important to keep the sal reads in mind when evaluating their stance on players etc.

[quiet]

I have 1 completed game in newbie queue. I have played no other games on any other sites, I watched some decently high level Zoom mafia on youtube which which is what got me into wanting to play mafia (a lateral from my interest in incomplete information games and poker + game theory in general, but mostly as it relates to microfinance and sustainability stuff, which is wayyy outta scope for this kinda thing). So basically no experience prior to the last month or so playing form mafia, but a good amount of thinking about related topics.

On a semi-related note, in my first newbie game, someone tunnled me based on, in part, believing me to be misrepresenting my experience.

[quiet]

I don't see why a new person with a new perspective/views/reads, should remove the previous view you had on sal, they are both the same slot and alignment and I feel you are throwing everything out the window from your view on sal from some iniital good reads from fairy which I believe were from the beginning of the game?

This is a fair point, and maybe I should be more incredulous, but frankly, I wasn't all that married to my Salsa scumread in the first place, it was a fairly lightweight read, and Fairy's entrance and all posts thereafter have pinged me very town. The truth is, I can see a salsaOffendedTown world with as much frequency as I could see a salsaDefensiveScum world, and Fairy has sold me on the slot, at least for today.

Spartian, if you like consistency in behavior, then I'm assuming you don't hate the floo slot, who has been consistent with their reads. They're your big counterwagon, whats your read on them? Or is there a third option that you can sell me on?

[Prism]

??? Fairy can you explain your progression on the two slots more clearly, why do you keep pingponging lmao

[Spartan117]

Top vote today is spartianFloo cluster of I could see either. I'm leaning voting spartian by just a little bit because I hate the absence, and I happen to know how I flip, so them pushing me for mediocre reasons makes me like them less than Floo who I have no proof about at this stage.

My brain says there are two scum in {floo, spartian, fred, flow trap}, where fred and flow are just hard to vote up today.

Spartian seemed willing to vote up Fred today and pushed pretty hard at me for not being willing to do so, which makes a Spartian/Fred team hard to see. Fred is also voting floo right now. So I guess that suggests {Spartian, Flow Trap}, but flow has been voting Spartian from well before needing to bus. So that team really doesn't make a lot of sense either.

I find it incredibily scummy you saying you "hate my absence" when I have been soo much more active in this game both d1 and 2 than fredrick and you seem adamant to protect him (he has been prodging and posting empty posts the vast majority of the game, I'll admit i think a couple of his posts in the last day or 2 whereever it was did look progressive but that does not wipe away the previous idk how many days of nothing), yet you are leaning a vote on me because of my absense, I have been busy with irl and only just had time to come online, also being that it is currently 1am here for me and the deadline is at 5am my time, why do you think my reason for pushing you is mediocre when you seem so keen to protect fredrick without providing any actual proof as to why you think they are town, show me their posts that show them as a town read for you.

If you have no proof of at this stage, can you please show me where you have proof of me being scum then if that is what you are insinuating as it certainly sounds like it. I know I am town and I read floo as town so I dont like either of us being the main targets of the wagons at all...

[Prism]

I am going to drive myself insane someone help

[Prism]

Howdy Spartan, welcome!

Can you remind me why you specifically asked floo if they'd be willing to vote me earlier?

[Spartan117]

Spartian, if you like consistency in behavior, then I'm assuming you don't hate the floo slot, who has been consistent with their reads. They're your big counterwagon, whats your read on them? Or is there a third option that you can sell me on?

No the complete opposite I actually find them my strongest town read, I have stated previously how I see them as town and don't agree with the pressure put on them, I have not had a complete chance to review the floo vs prism/quiet/fairy discussion at this point.

Fredrick is my main scum read as it has been obvious this game I do not like their play one bit and have detailed out why on several occasions. I had a townie lean on Sal d1 from their output, I didnt like the instant vote on Fredrick as soon as D2 started which I commented on, and with further evaluating D1 and what has happened since on d2 I didnt like Sals reactions to being scum read which has already been wildly talked about already, I have not had a chance yet to go through fairys content, and am about to attempt to answer any other questions that have been posted for me since I last posted last night before I went to bed.

[quiet]

I find it incredibily scummy you saying you "hate my absence" when I have been soo much more active in this game both d1 and 2 than fredrick and you seem adamant to protect him (he has been prodging and posting empty posts the vast majority of the game, I'll admit i think a couple of his posts in the last day or 2 whereever it was did look progressive but that does not wipe away the previous idk how many days of nothing), yet you are leaning a vote on me because of my absense, I have been busy with irl and only just had time to come online, also being that it is currently 1am here for me and the deadline is at 5am my time, why do you think my reason for pushing you is mediocre when you seem so keen to protect fredrick without providing any actual proof as to why you think they are town, show me their posts that show them as a town read for you.

If you have no proof of at this stage, can you please show me where you have proof of me being scum then if that is what you are insinuating as it certainly sounds like it. I know I am town and I read floo as town so I dont like either of us being the main targets of the wagons at all...

See this colors things for me a little bit. What I mean by your absence is the read that's been given by a few people now that you are willing to sit back and let other people get elimed without getting your hands dirty. That would be relevant if you wanted floo gone while maintaining a TR them.

But truth is, it would be pretty damn ballsy for scum to sit here and TR their counterwagon at this stage.

[fairyprincess69]

??? Fairy can you explain your progression on the two slots more clearly, why do you keep pingponging lmao

dude I keep rereading and changing my mind lmao this is really hard

you're my only LOCKTOWN townread. i keep thinking quiet is gonna join that list but then i think he's not committing to anything or taking bold stances, which is actually a ridiculous reason to suspect him since i'm in the same boat. then i think spartan is actually townie because of his relentless pursual of frederick and his incredulity that noone is joining him. now i'm reading through floo's treatment of salsa and overall i think it's pretty fair! frederick doesn't seem to care about how he's perceived at all, and flow trap is just being flow trap. so you can see my predicament.

this is why i'm willing to defer to your read on floo - it's not as if i have a really concrete scumread on spartan, i'm simply not confident on mafia right now.

[Spartan117]

Howdy Spartan, welcome!

Can you remind me why you specifically asked floo if they'd be willing to vote me earlier?

Sure, multiple reasons, I was still evaluating their slot at the time to try and see where I gauged them and I wanted to see how easily it might be to see if they would jump on a vote for someone especially a more townie read slot, I had some concern at the time on if they might be partnered with Sal which obviously I don't think is possible now given the events of D2. and so I wanted to see if they would jump on that to try and divert attention away from some of the weaker townies and general scum reads of the group at the time, mostly fredrick and Sal. it was a reaction test in that sense, in the same light I wanted to see if they would push back on it if they would have been defensive of you and your play d1 if there could have been any hint at a floo prism partnership as I was entertaining the idea of a scum team of 2 strong townies, although floo was more on the better side of that for me, but was willing to engage with me so I wanted to test it and see how they would react.

Did you feel singled out that I had asked him about you in particular?

[Spartan117]

That would be relevant if you wanted floo gone while maintaining a TR them.

I do not want floo gone, please do not lynch floo I believe he is town and I can only forsee the same events of d1 happening again, also I did not just let enchant get killed off without trying to defend him properly, let me go and check the time stamps of the posts from the end of d1 to explain what happened.

[quiet]

I've given my reason for not wanting a Fred vote early in the day. As I've now stated, like, 3 times, I hoped that taking them off the table would result in a better discussion today, I think they are an easy miselim, and I didn't want two LHF elims in 2 days. I think I've given completely +town reasons for that, and feel like you havn't given those reasons a fair shake. But that doesn't make you not town.
VOTE: Fredrick

But at this stage, I don't hate this. Fred did nothing with that time today, gave no real reads, Spartian hard defending floo here is fascinating, and Fred is my top partner for most teams.

If this wagon stays frozen, I'll move over to Floo, then Spartian, in that order.

Maybe the reason today is so damn hard is that neither floo or spartian are scum.
Or maybe it's scum v. scum, that would be a fascinating outcome. I'm real lost today.

[quiet]

{Fred, Flow Trap} is entirely viable.

[Prism]

I disagree heavily with the floo treatment being fair, the fairest post came only after I forced it and it was a lot more focused on showing remorse over evaluating the slot imo

Objectively flipping Frederick and call it a day is probably best but I'd rather force people to place votes down floo/Spartan instead of continuing to be lukewarm. I actually think Spartan-Frederick or floo-Frederick is more likely than Spartan-floo even if it's not out.

[Prism]

OH GOD QUIET YOU DID THAT AS I WAS TYPING THE ABOVE

[quiet]

Goddamn we’re on the same wave. This probably means something lolol

[flow trap]

But truth is, it would be pretty damn ballsy for scum to sit here and TR their counterwagon at this stage.

I accidentally deleted the post I was writing

Blah blah have another Counter-wagon Spartan VOTE: Quiet

[Prism]

re: 1460 My issue was that it felt like wagon fishing to me, which in conjunction with the paranoia expressions from others, seemed to come out of left field in a bad way

But okay, wanted to see if floo would jump elsewhere makes sense

Ajcslwnflslwnfoc

[Prism]

lmao if this game is just fucking flow trap and Frederick

flow trap I know you lost a post but it's going to take a lot more than that to get me to vote quiet

[flow trap]

lmao if this game is just fucking flow trap and Frederick

flow trap I know you lost a post but it's going to take a lot more than that to get me to vote quiet

Well that's good because I don't want you to

[flow trap]

Also it's weird how long that took to come up

[Prism]

This is a pretty big 180 from wanting to work together.

My concern is that you've played the last 24-48 hours waiting for us to fuck up rather than proactively pushing something. You are incentivized to do this regardless of which of Spartan/floo is scum, assuming one even is. Tomorrow is Elo if we fuck up, and you went from Spartan scum and maybe getting voted to voting quiet on a dime. You need to start selling your reads.

[flow trap]

No it's not you would be stepping on my foot if you voted quiet

I SR spartan & Quiet so I switched

[Prism]

ie. We are quickly approaching the point where you will legitimately get voted out tomorrow. No more benefit of the doubt or "flow trap being flow trap". I am voting you over quiet 100% of the time. You need to explain your reads and how you're playing.

P-Edit: This is about to be a nasty 5 way if this is wrong