Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-10

Jólakötturinn, aka the Yule Cat is another Icelandic Christmas monster. Jólakötturinn is a cat belonging to the ogress hag Grýla, who happens to be the mother of the aforementioned Yule Trolls. This legend dates back to the Middle ages and Jólakötturinn is not your typical house cat. He's as big as a house, and only likes to eat children. But, his appetite is put off if they’re wearing new clothes, even a new pair of socks. His favorite treat is a saffron bun called a lussikatter. One of his treats, and he's satisfied for the night, fortunately. Leaving a lussikatter on the mantle on Christmas eve is just like cookies and milk for Santa.

Not!

quiet

(2): Spartan117, flow trap

floo

(2): Fredrick A Campbell, Prism

Fredrick A Campbell

(1): quiet

fairyprincess69

(1): floo

Not Voting

(1): fairyprincess69

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Revised Deadline: January 31, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Revised Countdown: (expired on 2021-01-30 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Prism]

Aight, I'm at my limit, I'm taking a walk, I'm giving reads, and then I'm voting. I've made my point to/from flow trap, I can either deal with him tomorrow or someone else can pick up where I left off.

[fairyprincess69]

Ur doing great spartan, that helps me understand thank you, and my top vote today would actually be flow trap.

[Spartan117]

@prism

i feel at least partially your read on floo is influenced by your attitude towards mafia games, and perhaps of life itself. you love diplomacy, social harmony, emotional intelligence. i think when you're reading floo you're putting yourself in

his

shoes and coming away from it knowing you'd treat Salsa completely different. and that's fine. i just don't think floo has any motive to accomodate salsa's feelings - he scumreads her afterall, and his entire MO in that exchange was provocation for reactions. do you think the difference in philosophy could be skewing your read a bit?

I like this read from you fairy I think this is a very good analysis of what might have been going on between prism and floo, unless there might have been some extra influence causing the push, im not sure but I like what you are doing here.

[Prism]

While I'm gone think through who you want to vote/don't want me to vote and I'll work through it with you in a bit.

[Prism]

That's to quiet/fairy but also applies to Spartan and Frederick if he shows up.

[Spartan117]

My point is you need to fight for your votes. It doesn't matter if you're right if you lose the game.

You want me to defend Quiet?

I am not asking you to defend anyone, but can you please tell me and everyone else here why you are scum reading quiet and myself (from 1473 seen below), i dont care that you are scum reading me i just want you to express why that is the case so I can better understand you, im worried of there being a chance you get flipped d2 and youre town and we still never know why you think anyone is anything, please help us solve this puzzle, if you are town there must be a shred in you that wants to actually win this, than you just being completely 100% you will go down with your ship that you know you are right but now one else will know what you know.

No it's not you would be stepping on my foot if you voted quiet

I SR spartan & Quiet so I switched

[quiet]

I think I've been talked out of Spartian/floo today. This means I want Fred or Flow Trap, and Flow Trap just confuses the hell out of me so idk about that one. It seems like fairy, myself, spartian, are all willing to vote Fred.

[fairyprincess69]

I think I've been talked out of Spartian/floo today. This means I want Fred or Flow Trap, and Flow Trap just confuses the hell out of me so idk about that one. It seems like fairy, myself, spartian, are all willing to vote Fred.

woah wasn't flow chart the chaos god one of your top townreads?

[Spartan117]

I dont know if i just misread what was going on, were you refusing to share your reads and saying why should you explain to the group your thoughts on why you are voting people at this late crutial state near the deadline of D2 so we can better understand where you are coming from so as to make better more informed decisions? or did i misunderstand?

I

have

stated all my reads

then restate them or at least tell me what posts they are in, rather than me trying to do a cryptic treasure hunt, its 2am ive not got time for that im still trying to go through everyone elses posts, like i said d1 you are so anti town its not even funny, I know i am town and some of the rest of us here are town, whether you are just some spicy town who is inadvertently helping scum or if you are scum its just sooo anti town to do what you do. during a normal point in any irl day its frustrating enough but on deadline day for d2 we neeed more, if you are so convinced myself and quiet are the scum team, tell us why you are so sure everyone else is town help us read them, work with us, please.

[Spartan117]

can i just also say that scum team chart that was made i think twice both times by flow trap if im not mistaken obv didn't have him on it either time so is basically irrelevant if he is scum, ive just seen that talked about a few times about how great it was that it was made and wanted to bring it up

[flow trap]

I dont know if i just misread what was going on, were you refusing to share your reads and saying why should you explain to the group your thoughts on why you are voting people at this late crutial state near the deadline of D2 so we can better understand where you are coming from so as to make better more informed decisions? or did i misunderstand?

I

have

stated all my reads

then restate them or at least tell me what posts they are in, rather than me trying to do a cryptic treasure hunt, its 2am ive not got time for that im still trying to go through everyone elses posts, like i said d1 you are so anti town its not even funny, I know i am town and some of the rest of us here are town, whether you are just some spicy town who is inadvertently helping scum or if you are scum its just sooo anti town to do what you do. during a normal point in any irl day its frustrating enough but on deadline day for d2 we neeed more, if you are so convinced myself and quiet are the scum team, tell us why you are so sure everyone else is town help us read them, work with us, please.

Gladly one moment

[quiet]

woah wasn't flow chart the chaos god one of your top townreads?

Yes, but my reads are TRASH and I'm throwing up my hands and flailing around at this point. And my favorite chaos god hasn't delivered any positive chaos today. Flow Chart is a good partner, and I'm paralyzed about Spartian and floo.

@Floo, Flow Trap vs. Fred go

[fairyprincess69]

I have 1 completed game in newbie queue. I have played no other games on any other sites, I watched some decently high level Zoom mafia on youtube which which is what got me into wanting to play mafia (a lateral from my interest in incomplete information games and poker + game theory in general, but mostly as it relates to microfinance and sustainability stuff, which is wayyy outta scope for this kinda thing). So basically no experience prior to the last month or so playing form mafia, but a good amount of thinking about related topics.

On a semi-related note, in my first newbie game, someone tunnled me based on, in part, believing me to be misrepresenting my experience.

not sure i believe you. you use a ton of forum mafia lingo that i don't think would be accumulated in such a short time frame. i'm not sure if this has any bearing on your alignment, but you're most assuredly a mafia progidy if you're being truthful about your experience

[flow trap]

Here is a list of me not giving reads and some explanations

Spoiler:

I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

It seemed like a town play to me, what scum wants this kind of negative attention this early on

That would be my other SR; however less so and I feel they created a better dynamic which could help next round

I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

Can you share the reasons?

Floo seems typical chaotic town and Spartan seems genuine here

VOTE: Salsabil Faria
For being passive and fluffy

(Insert pair Analysises)

The fact they're continuing to sound the alarm into the present page suggests it is legitimate.

I agree, also the lack of resistance worried me

I could see salsa being one of those who like to purposefully put wolf tells to make them not wolf tells

I don't like this playing the victim tone you have

I'm only talking from a game standpoint, you being dismissive only makes me suspect you more

i would like to ask for towncred

That's fair, it's pretty solid other than a couple of things I'll mention when I feel like it (mostly on salsa), and the fact that I, in my opinion, don't find mind melding to be towny

Personally, I find Enchanted's interactions er... benign

Ok here is the thing I don't agree with

In post 44, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 38, Enchant wrote:
Yeeaaah.

So i'm not good at game, where main source of info is people yelling on each other.

Dude, you won Newbie 2046 by fooling the town perfectly! If you are not good, don't know who can be!!

Being supportive is always townie.

Being nice is generally a wolf tell from my experience; however, this was early in the game, so I would probably give this a neutral

I think his reaction to my fake suspicion was plausible, but you do have a case

I mean they do have 7 days

Is there a reason you're trying to alleviate the pressure I'm applying?

If you think it's a bad push, explain why. Saying this just gets in the way for 0 reason.

I have a dry sense of humor

Correction. I was merely suggesting the possibility that they were planning something for the future.

I also agree that Enchant is acting scummy

Ok, my TRs at this time are Prism & Floo

Ah, realization

Ok I TR Salsa but very easily changeable

Or maybe salsa is just the god of formatting and I’m letting my naked jealousy of their posting technique color my opinion.

Well either way, high effort high quality easy to understand posts gets a +town from me.

Hoping no one is trying to pocket me here

Actually, that's why I asked about Spartan

Okay, when you want to know things from me, please be very thorough with your words, as I already said, English is not my native language. Now, if you mean that if I'm trying to pocket

Spartan117

or not, the answer is no. I stated on page 10 (post 226) which was an early period of the game that I'm getting a town vibe from him, which is not changed yet.

I meant the other way around

Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?

I mean you can't be aware of a successful pocket attempt, nor do I think a pocket attempt would be done in one post

Well, I have to re-read his iso again then. But, why do you think he can be a scum?

I've fallen for the scum tactic in #549 so many times, so I'm very wary of that

Ok, I think I'm going to place Salsa in the Leaning Scum but not open to shoot category

In defense of Floo, town shouldn't go out of their way to be suspicious

If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

I'm not sure FaC is maf

you're being too paranoid

This sounds scummy tbh

Fredrick yes, but I don't see how it's preventing either when I have

★ Unlimited Vote Changes ★

Why do you want to prevent a Fredrick wagon?

Because I TR them

If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

I'm not sure FaC is maf

Why?

Has not used emoji

you're being too paranoid

This sounds scummy tbh

Do you scumread Esoteric overall?

Null town

250th post (Almost 1/4th)

Yeah, I consent to an Enchant shot

Mild suspicion on Prism, Quiet, & FaC for that NK

What happened to your scumread on Salsabil?

Same deal

I'm worried that Fredrick is Enchant 2.0, and the people who are pushing it are worrying me

You're almost there flow trap, let down the walls of your heart and start sharing the inner thoughts.

Do I worry you?

You worry me the most, but I forgot why

I'm good at running interference and setting town up to implode.

I remembered; this is what is worrying me about Prism's FaC push

Salsa, I suspect quite, what do you think of that?

VOTE: Quiet

Salsa + Spartan: Salsa's TR on Spartan felt like they were not partners here; if Spartan is mafia I don't see Salsa being one as if they were scum their actions felt mildly pockety

Prism + Quiet: While I do think this combo would NK Zoomer, Prism has been at Safe's throat the entire time, and then when Quiet showed up Prism started being helpful to them, so I saw some town emotions in play

Salsa + FaC: Overall neutral but FaC had some questionable actions towards Salsa, but I found Salsa's actions towards FaC felt non-teammate; May NK zoomer

Floo + FaC: Spartan called FaC's vote on Floo odd and I don't think that would be an SvS situation, even if Spartan is mafia making it up, they still can't be partners

Quiet + FaC: I think this team would NK Zoomer otherwise haven't read into this that much tbh

Prism + FaC: If Prism is indeed setting up town to fail in the way I'm thinking, then FaC couldn't be their partner; I lean town on both of them anyways

I've always seen being diplomatic as a scum tell

I have very, very bad news for you about me as a player lmao

In general I don't think this tell is the worst-particularly if the person is overdoing it or not taking any real stances-but becoming more diplomatic and communicate effectively with others is literally

my entire purpose for playing the game of mafia.

I don't enjoy the puzzle or solving aspect at all.

Guess it's just culture shock, I hope

Also I'm in the middle of writing some reads / elaborating on why I scumread Salsabil. It looks like an essay, and I won't be able to finish it until tomorrow.

When my flip will be happened, I want to imagine your face that time, I bet it'll be the most hilarious thing if you're a town but if you're one of the scums, then you're playing really good.

This is something I said as town back when I had no clue what I was doing

I'm most likely going to vote between Quiet/Spartan/Salsa Replacement

what do you think of floos recent emergence with lots more posts and effort than d1?

NAI imo

'Tis, not a laugh of laughter but a laugh of discovery!

As do be it, their behavior has not changed a lick, so in conclusion while consistent; I do say it appears they are trying to cloak their partner in mysterious mystery!

As a psychologist, it could indeed be however unlikely that they are in a Pavlov response to being praised for a response.

Prism, I apologize for acting like a jerk sometimes; I have decided to trust you can will answer (almost) anything you ask to the best of my ability

It's okay, and I appreciate this.

Personally, I want to know why you don't really want to vote floo today.

That said, my whole point here is that it's a team game. I'm not the only channel/avenue to dialogue through; I don't think talking to scum is the worst thing in the world and there are other town with thoughts as valid as mine. I'm down to talk about any slot you want, and I imagine quiet is as well.

I have a bad habit of just TRing the first person to make a move and then basically ignoring them for the rest of the game...

This is why I decided to ISO them to see if I still want to TR them

They start off with a town vote, but then they play "I don't want to seem suspicious" post which I believe is #77. However; I do find their explanation (351) to be completely valid as I have stated before town shouldn't go out of their way to seem suspicious which is fair as they were indeed going for that POV. Some solid posts between 77 and 351. Their next post (355) worries me; I believe it was brought up how Salsa was suspicious due to taking a joke seriously, I'm getting the same sort of vibe here. In post 348 they reinforce the "town shouldn't go out of their way to be suspicious" idea which I find town as well as this:

"Hello I'm Mafia I want to blend in!" - floo
"OK Mafia" - Sal

Sarcastic annoyance=town IMO

States a suspicion on Zoomer in 439 which I will come back to later. Then they have a streak of neutral posts. I found 1005 off, I don't like how they push here , probably it's because they are adding fuel to the FaC+Enchant idea. Back to Zoomer, I found the eating to be a double-edged sword on the town side mafia doesn't usually want to kill their fake scum reads, but on the other hand, they acknowledged that Zoomer was widely TRed so they were aware of it.

Day 2

I found their push overall towny, it does have a few lows, however. Reading it back it is sounding mildly tunnely since they are talking about salsa 90% of their early posts, not that I find that suspicious. The emotional push could go either way as Town determination or Mafia emotional shutdown. I had to skim the latter half of their posts and nothing stood out.

Overall I still find floo town

I still stand by my previous POE

you know you're town, so you're going to treat suspicion agaisnt you flippantly/dismissively. there's a sense of entitlement in playing town in which you can't see why people would think you're scummy

I strongly disagree, dismissing suspicions on you is super scummy

Blah blah stuff about Spartan & Quiet

[flow trap]

i dont care that you are scum reading me i just want you to express why that is the case so I can better understand you

See 674 & 1434

[fairyprincess69]

Part of what makes this so implausible w/ floo is that we have similar backgrounds in chat mafia. The amount of indignant/self-righteous town in chat games is insane and is a huge part of what can make it insufferable to play, it can quickly degrade to ego "I was obviously town you're trash for voting me" slapfights. Mafia quickly learn to do the same. You literally have to play around town doing exactly what Salsabil was doing and worse every other game.

but isn't scumplay in chat mafia very reflexive, emotion driven because of the lack of time required to make good arguments? i can see Salsabil's reaction would look even

more

scummy in that context.

[fairyprincess69]

I believe I have said the Enchant TR was a bluff as was the Salsa TR

but according to this post many of your supposed TR's are bluffs, so are those real reads or not?

[flow trap]

I believe I have said the Enchant TR was a bluff as was the Salsa TR

but according to this post many of your supposed TR's are bluffs, so are those real reads or not?

2#All and you may assume them to be true and I will 100% confirm my Prism & Floo TRs are real

[flow trap]

I have 15 minutes before I lock in my vote

[quiet]

not sure i believe you. you use a ton of forum mafia lingo that i don't think would be accumulated in such a short time frame. i'm not sure if this has any bearing on your alignment, but you're most assuredly a mafia progidy if you're being truthful about your experience

God dammit it's happening again ahaha go look at my profile, see the games I've been playing, and I do not think I'm in any way a prodigy, I just take these games decently seriously and did a fair amount of reading on the mafiascum wiki before I started playing (the wiki is how I found this form, actually; I wanted to learn about strategy after watching some games online).

Also you pick up a LOT of lingo playing a few games. It's mostly in context.

Reaction to flow reads next.

[Prism]

but isn't scumplay in chat mafia very reflexive, emotion driven because of the lack of time required to make good arguments? i can see Salsabil's reaction would look even more scummy in that context.

It depends on the level of play. Higher level players definitely get better at faking the tone/indignance. Lower level players typically just AFK and vote anyone that isn't them.

You definitely see mafia act indignant/upset, but the amount of town selfrighteousness you see makes it virtually impossible to read into. In a case where those emotions are immediately validated by a replace out I just don't think floo ever takes this approach as town.

With that said, I think the vote today for me is floo. I'm not a town dictator, but I do believe in this read and it's delusional to think that voting someone else makes a statement about the value of teamwork. I'm fallible and fully capable of being wrong. I do think when I'm confident these reads have a high hit %, but I have been wrong before and will be again one day, even if it turns out to not be today.

I think the correct approach is again affirming that I heavily prefer floo for the day. I am again fallible, and this is a Newbie game: I am willing to talk to you about this read as long as it takes, but you should trust your own judgment over just following me.

So floo is my vote for the day. I think this has the advantage of hedging for me being wrong on either of fairy/quiet; both have verbally expressed a willingness to vote floo but not really done so. If you want a second guess, it would be Frederick. But I'm really only confident in floo, and anything else is murky.

[Spartan117]

Blah blah stuff about Spartan & Quiet

This doesn't explain why you are scumreading myself and quiet?

[flow trap]

Blah blah stuff about Spartan & Quiet

This doesn't explain why you are scumreading myself and quiet?

See next post about you and some post in the long one

[fairyprincess69]

I have 15 minutes before I lock in my vote

on who, exactly?