Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[Prism]

In the event floo is scum, I think anyone is on the table but flow trap is probably the most likely. I still think quiet/fairyprincess are town but it is conceivable for that one, especially quiet, is playing very much around deceiving my slot specifically as scum. Spartan would be extremely bold to go to bat this hard. I intentionally tried to get a vote on Spartan from floo earlier to see if he'd be willing to vote Spartan and he ignored it entirely rather than taking the chance to distance more. flow trap's only real wall today has been a direct response to me about floo, but it was a townlean and not quite a hard defense. This doesn't mean instavote flow trap but he has to learn to make a better case if he's town.

If floo is town, I literally have no clue and think all my reads should go straight in the trash. No one really feels right in this world, Spartan whiteknighting two town slots in a row is suspect but this is a bit unfair. Chance of me getting wrecked by one of fairy/quiet is high, and flow trap/Frederick were definitely in no danger until now and could just coast all day.

[Spartan117]

i dont care that you are scum reading me i just want you to express why that is the case so I can better understand you

See 674 & 1434

So you are scum reading me in reference to the following two posts..?

Yet you don't show any examples of where you think i have tried to pocket someone or dismissed suspicion on me?

Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?

I mean you can't be aware of a successful pocket attempt, nor do I think a pocket attempt would be done in one post

you know you're town, so you're going to treat suspicion agaisnt you flippantly/dismissively. there's a sense of entitlement in playing town in which you can't see why people would think you're scummy

I strongly disagree, dismissing suspicions on you is super scummy

[Prism]

So that's where I'm at. I'm still down to talk about any slots with people, and I will of course vote someone else if required to avoid a no elim.

[Spartan117]

I have 15 minutes before I lock in my vote

You missed your window.

[flow trap]

i dont care that you are scum reading me i just want you to express why that is the case so I can better understand you

See 674 & 1434

So you are scum reading me in reference to the following two posts..?

Yet you don't show any examples of where you think i have tried to pocket someone or dismissed suspicion on me?

Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?

I mean you can't be aware of a successful pocket attempt, nor do I think a pocket attempt would be done in one post

you know you're town, so you're going to treat suspicion agaisnt you flippantly/dismissively. there's a sense of entitlement in playing town in which you can't see why people would think you're scummy

I strongly disagree, dismissing suspicions on you is super scummy

Idk where I got 674 but I don't have time to correct myself

[Spartan117]

or is it the case that your vote is locked where it currently is, which is on quiet?

[flow trap]

In the event floo is scum, I think anyone is on the table but flow trap is probably the most likely.

That's counter-intuitive since the only person I've gone into detain with is Floo

[flow trap]

I meant that I couldn't be on anymore guys

[flow trap]

I'm sticking with Quiet

[Spartan117]

I'm sticking with Quiet

Ah ok glad for the clarification do we get an explanation? are you going to try to convince anyone to join at this late stage?

[Prism]

flow trap's only real wall today has been a direct response to me about floo, but it was a townlean and not quite a hard defense. This doesn't mean instavote flow trap but he has to learn to make a better case if he's town.

You got me to chew more on my floo read but overall I found the argument for floo-town really lacking and the conclusion lackluster. I responded to the wall in 1365. It's also taken a ton of work to get you to really go to bat for something else; you've sat to the side all day and waited for others to drive an elim.

[quiet]

Wait flow those are just your...

oh god. of course they are.

Can you just state clearly in one sentence your take on each other person in the game? I'll do the same.

Fairy: Really, really towny analysis and posts. Really liked entrance to the game, echoed my own. In light of this, my read on Salsa seems less relevant; it's entirely plausible that overdefensiveSalsa is townSalsa, and Floo's extensive argument did not convince me.
Spartian: Sketches me the fuck out mostly by AoE and some singleminded suspicions, but their reaction to my suspicion was decently towny to me, towny enough to make me back off today. Their unwillingness to push Floo makes me like them a whole lot more.
Prism: Locktown
Flow Trap: Chaos, man, you are pure chaos. I read it as towny for most of this game, but it didn't get anywhere today and that same chaos makes you a really good scum partner for basically anyone, especially in a thread where I TR like everyone.
Floo: Salsa scumread was light, careful play could be scummy, but Spartian strong TR and the well argued points they have made make me doubt a bit. This slot also sketches me the fuck out, and is where I vote if Fred goes nowhere.
Fred: Just...a null slot that at this point has a >50% chance of flipping scum from my perspective as very few combos make sense to me out of {flow, floo, spartian} that don't include Fred. My vote is here.

[Prism]

but isn't scumplay in chat mafia very reflexive, emotion driven because of the lack of time required to make good arguments? i can see Salsabil's reaction would look even more scummy in that context.

It depends on the level of play. Higher level players definitely get better at faking the tone/indignance. Lower level players typically just AFK and vote anyone that isn't them.

You definitely see mafia act indignant/upset, but the amount of town selfrighteousness you see makes it virtually impossible to read into. In a case where those emotions are immediately validated by a replace out I just don't think floo ever takes this approach as town.

I know this isn't quite what you were getting at by the way fairy, I know you're saying in theory that mafia should fall back to reflexive fake emotions more, ie. this should be scumplay, but selfrighteous, indignant town are so commonplace that it is difficult for me to put it under the "scumplay" category at all, which is why I think displaying those emotions and playing suboptimally is pretty NAI. When you have those emotions validated by a replaceout, I think this shifts to "townlean".

[fairyprincess69]

which site did u play chat mafia on btw?

[Prism]

I share your concerns about Frederick in general, and obviously I'm not a fan of flow trap's day today, but part of why I want to vote floo in the end is simply because I think it's a safe bet (222, hue).

I've obviously gotten very worked up and a bit neurotic. I spent a lot of my walk trying to rein that in and recenter. This game is not about me vs. fferyllt, the game is about voting scum and ideally doing it together. I hope I am right on floo, naturally. I think there are good reasons to think you and fairy are both town but a large part of me simply

wants it to be true

, and I'd rather force both of you to take a stand you believe in rather than pass the buck at deadline and let chaos rein. This is probably better for us in the shortterm as town, and is definitely better for us in the longrun if I am wrong and either of you are mafia, particularly with floo. I have a long history of being a town dictator, but I also have a long history of nailing one and letting the other escape me.

[Prism]

which site did u play chat mafia on btw?

EpicMafia. I play-or rather, played-under the username [redacted per request]

~f

.

[quiet]

Eh Prism, I've been legitimately considering floo all day. I don't feel like you've been running this town, I just think you ARE town. I'm sure this feeds into the "quiet is trying to flatter prism" narrative, but I think we have enough opinionated voices in here that we're not sheeping or getting pushed around by you. You're all good.

Floo is my first choice if Fred goes nowhere.

[Spartan117]

I share your concerns about Frederick in general, and obviously I'm not a fan of flow trap's day today, but part of why I want to vote floo in the end is simply because I think it's a safe bet (222, hue).

I've obviously gotten very worked up and a bit neurotic. I spent a lot of my walk trying to rein that in and recenter. This game is not about me vs. fferyllt, the game is about voting scum and ideally doing it together. I hope I am right on floo, naturally. I think there are good reasons to think you and fairy are both town but a large part of me simply

wants it to be true

, and I'd rather force both of you to take a stand you believe in rather than pass the buck at deadline and let chaos rein. This is probably better for us in the shortterm as town, and is definitely better for us in the longrun if I am wrong and either of you are mafia, particularly with floo. I have a long history of being a town dictator, but I also have a long history of nailing one and letting the other escape me.

Please don't vote floo, I really read him as town (I feel like you are trying to get away with a floo lynch without any of the responsibility of being the causing factor on a floolynch), in comparison to fredrick it shouldnt even be a question he has just lurked around prodged and contributed little to nothing, floo has produced natural reads and is seriously my strongest town read.

[Spartan117]

Fred: Just...a null slot that at this point has a >50% chance of flipping scum

Why is he null after 2 in game days of content, is it because there isnt any content from him after 2 in game days? can this truly make him null?

[Prism]

re: 1542 Do you really think I don't just take literally any of the 3 freebies on the table and push floo when one flips town? I'm taking direct responsibility if floo flips town and have all day.

I concur that Frederick isn't great, and will vote there if I have to. But Frederick is the absence of a townread colored by the inactivity of a scum. floo I think is straight up working backwards and has been strategic in picking exactly what he has/hasn't engaged with all day.

[Prism]

Eh Prism, I've been legitimately considering floo all day. I don't feel like you've been running this town, I just think you ARE town. I'm sure this feeds into the "quiet is trying to flatter prism" narrative, but I think we have enough opinionated voices in here that we're not sheeping or getting pushed around by you. You're all good.

I really appreciate this. I do think you're town, and I'm enjoying playing with you.

[quiet]

Why is he null after 2 in game days of content, is it because there isnt any content from him after 2 in game days? can this truly make him null?

Yes, I really do think this makes him null. I'm one full game in, and I've already been burned by lurking town more than once. It is entirely possible. I am reading him based on AoE not lack of content.

[Spartan117]

Why is he null after 2 in game days of content, is it because there isnt any content from him after 2 in game days? can this truly make him null?

Yes, I really do think this makes him null. I'm one full game in, and I've already been burned by lurking town more than once. It is entirely possible. I am reading him based on AoE not lack of content.

AoE remind me again, its 3:30am here and im zonked out of my mind

[floo]

Final D2 reads

TOWNLEAN

flow trap: yes, evasive and isolated at times. However, this looks more like a playstyle. I'm reminded of a Mafia player and online friend who was able to read insightfully even while playing lurky and keeping info to themselves. I think flow trap's playstyle is aimed at benefiting town: it causes uncertainty but not chaos while opening up new lines of thought that are often abandoned (a sign that they're not intended to mislead the town).

quiet: another player I find who is helping town. Some posts I noted that legitimately don't benefit the scumteam in any way while buoying up the town. Too subtle for Mafia to care, as I'm the only player who's noticed them IIRC. Even with a non-confrontational attitude, is more influential than I'd see at first glance: I would cite him as a main reason why Fredrick isn't being lynched, why the Sal push started and stalled, why the floo wagon became very serious.

Spartan117: Contributes a lot and makes insightful points that contradict the norm. I'm starting to see the focus on Fredrick as more town being confident. If Spartan is scum, he is certainly wasting the potential to rally wagons as an alternative to Prism. Immune to big read/vote shifts, I don't think scum wants to restrict itself like this. I'm aware that my gut is townreading Spartan for pocketing-esque reasons and have filtered that out of my read.

SCUMPOOL

Order of confidence is Prism least -> Fred -> fairy most
fairyprincess69: Salsabil Faria didn't want to discuss possible scumreads on her and was overdefensive. Avoided reading Enchant, while voting Fredrick for a long time (end of D1 into all of D2 pre-sub) without making a legitimate push. As I've noted before her reads looked surface-level, the best example of this is automatically taking contributing a lot as an assumed townlean/read. fairy is playing better, and he can discuss where Sal wouldn't. I didn't notice any fairy proper posts that look exceptionally towny. Fairy proper also looked like Prism's second vote, in that his reads are similar to Prism's, and any apparent difference does not translate into a vote Prism doesn't want. Whereas quiet offers some uniqueness and just conversation that I don't see in fairy. In conclusion, Sal proper is scumlean, fairy is null, overall scumlean.

Fredrick A Campbell: Self-admitted, thoroughly conscious low effort, is really what I could say. Reads don't mean much, he literally said he forgot why he used to scumread me a day or two ago. This isn't personal style like flow trap's inherently scummy style, it's just a choice he made before the game and for the game. Not much to read, so no overt scumtells honestly, but the lurky style doesn't come with good reads/gamesolving like my lurky friend (from another site) I mentioned above.

Prism: High effort is my first impression. At the end of D2 I see a (perhaps pretended) annoyance running under his strategy, impairing it at times. I sometimes get the feeling that he imagines himself as the town superhero savior. Influential in organizing votes, reads have changed considerably - a suspicious event was the sudden flow trap threatened vote (that wasn't really an actual scumread) and backing off now. The level of effort and attempted scumhunting is impressive though and balances out the scummy deviations for a nullread. Would need to see which of his pushes bear fruit to town/scumlean this slot.

I see my fairy vote is getting nowhere. VOTE: Fredrick as I'd rather see this voted out than quiet / Spartan / myself. Will be gone for the rest of D2.

[quiet]

Area of Effect/Elimination, basically just thinking about possible scum combinations and what it could be given the people I TR, and given that I feel strongly that prism, fairy are tr, I know I am, that limits the area of my search a great deal.

Fred makes sense to me because of how many people I TR, and how of the remaining group, {floo, flow, spartian, fred}, most combinations don't really work without Fred being scum.

Maybe that's not a real term, sorry.