Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[WhemeStar]

Like do you really think the scumteam is this easy with 4 "lurkers" being in the scumteam?

[Imperium]

i find it odd that like no one was talking about n_m until i replaced in and then i say he has a strong chance to be scum and there was this flurry of posts about him a few pages later

I don't really think it's BoP, but it is probably a huge amount of burden of just being a good player. I've been grading and getting assignments posted all day and my words are leaving me as my brain is frying. I'm nowhere at Petapan should be right or die. I've seen him be wrong; I've seen him tunnel and be wrong. As he's seen me tunnel and be wrong. (I've also seen him be really correct.) I guess I expect deeper thoughts or analysis. Maybe I'll be able to word this better.

I also realize I think I did the math wrong because us getting shot afterwards if Norfolk does flip scum doesn't lose us the game. I counted it wrong in my head.

And I don't agree with drawing that conclusion. I just reread it again to see if I could see that, and I just don't. I mean we talked about several people in the game, and I'm not sure how me repeating my minor fluff and that I needed to reread that but I hadn't done it yet could be construed as egging it on. Though I am wondering why unwnd immediately asked if you would shoot duchess right away if you got the gun. I'll have to come back to this when I can word why it just stuck out to me.

So uh I’m not completely dumb, my brain is just fried at the moment. I was thinking about dnd and being proficient with weapons and realized how stupid this was. So, yea I’m boping him lol

[Imperium]

Hey nacho can you go back to scumreading me getting into a 1v1 hardcore sounds really fun no sarcasm

One day!!!
If you manage to fuck up on the scale of the brand new love of my life petapan then absolutely!!!

[Imperium]

Like do you really think the scumteam is this easy with 4 "lurkers" being in the scumteam?

Daddy's hungry, Whemestar. And your scumteam is an all you can eat buffet.

[Imperium]

If you guys are in agreeance with me being in a scumteam please shoot me out of the other possibilities so I can go on a murder spree.

Convince Lotus to give me the gun and I absolutely will!

You just have to wait your turn. Peta's the big dog so he's the one going down first - then I'll take care of lurkerdee and lurkerdum and then I'll let you flail for a bit before watching the life leave your eyes.

[WhemeStar]

Why do you think im scum i havent read the case on me

[WhemeStar]

@rlotus i volunteer to get shot

[Dunnstral]

@rlotus i volunteer to get shot

Who would you shoot?

[WhemeStar]

duchess cakez stt unwnd

[ScrewTheTells]

I think scum are trying to direct my shot to someone who will shoot the gf. I see three instances of this if my theory is correct, one of which is not well hidden whatsoever. And one instance has been doubled back on because I made it clear it won't work.

I'm being vague I know but I wonder if anyone will see what I see to maybe reaffirm me. My reads/shot isn't locked in whatsoever btw I am flip flopping a lot.

So I re-read for like 30 min and I've got nothing that might resemble this. The closest is people being initially vocal but then wishy-washy on whether to shoot Norfolk. But that doesn't fit your description of Norfolk being a townie who would shoot the GF. You think Norfolk is town now and you don't want to shoot him?

Well I had the impression that Lotus was in a similar head-space as us, so I expect he'll shoot one of our top suspects or at least someone we wouldn't mind too much shooting either. In any case I had no fear that Lotus would fire the gun randomly at a weird target. That's why I was like...Imperium, are you trying too hard for the LAMIST theatre? I think it's obvious Lotus will not shoot immediately. How do you even mis-read Lotus's style that much?

which ones, exactly? because in my chart the only place i have where your scumreads overlap with his are on norfolk, n_m, and rockhopper

Yeah, those were fine shots, so what's the problem? Also if he shot someone else I don't expect it would be something I would be like "nooo please save!". I think you guys read my stack too literally. I don't particularly care if some of the people switch a step or two on the ladder, because the margin of error is higher than the difference I assign between their scum-likelihoods. Unless lotus has a stack upside-down version of my reads and intends to shoot from town to scum, I wouldn't worry.

STT - I don't think you answered a question I asked earlier. Why was Mush the only person you wanted meta links for and did meta research on?

Okay I didn't reply to this question directly by quote but I thought you'd see that the answer was contained in my explanation of my MUSH case.

I asked for meta because it's the obvious low-hanging fruit in giving me a read on MUSH. Since I was paranoid about the pre-emptive meta disclaimer I thought it would be a simple low-effort-high-reward thing to find a MUSH scum game and see immediately if this was a relevant point at all. For other players who don't have a similarly obvious meta, who I also didn't have other suspicions on already, digging into their meta was not something I consider to be worth my time. I wouldn't know what to look for since I didn't have a reason to think there was a possible meta-based tell.

Speaking of meta, yeah see that's the kind of evidence I like to weigh more heavily towards, because I weigh the object-level arguments relatively lightly (I believe they're mostly rationalizations). So I'll look forward to Imperium(nacho)'s case tomorrow, which sounds like is coming from his angle on petapan's meta. Until I'm convinced of that though, I think shooting Not_mafia or Norfolk is a lot better than taking a random shot at petapan. If Imperium is town, then Nacho pretty much said in his own words that he has some egoistic reason for wanting to shoot petapan, so I'm not inclined to believe this is an objectively good shot. If Imperium is scum then of course this is yet another push trying to distract us or to test for opportunity. But meta info is good regardless so yeah please do.

[Imperium]

That makes so much sense. Thank you STT. You might have alluded to it in your wall, and I either didn’t catch it or forgot. I originally asked because I had a little ping that it might be partner indicative; you know nudge nudge I’m really trying to read you. That was a fleeting thought because I ended up with a strong town read on mush soon after.

When nacho starts to get this confident, I get less so and start reanalyzing to make sure we’re not overlooking something, which usually works quite well, though not always. Anyway, as I was thinking about you and our thinking you might be town after all, i remembered that question. But that makes so much sense.

Wheme - why on that solve?

They’ve finally stopped plowing in front of my house maybe I can fall asleep

[Imperium]

If Imperium is town, then Nacho pretty much said in his own words that he has some egoistic reason for wanting to shoot petapan,

To clarify, I have a guilty desire to personally shoot Petapan. I can be a little dramatic in case you didn't notice so I thought it would be poetic if I put him in the grave myself.

My scumread on him is BoP/meta mainly, but to an extent where my confidence level is through to roof because this type of read, while they don't come around often, is one that I've used and is tried and true over and over and over.

[WhemeStar]

maybe stt town

if imperium has a strong meta case against peta then i am fine with that being shot over me

[Imperium]

And my inability to avoid this type of read from Tammy when I am playing scum is the reason I haven't been able to get past her, amusingly enough.

But yes. Should be back home in 12 hours and I'll start working on the post then. I'm worried I'll pass out in the middle of writing it because my dumb ass played mafia last night instead of behaving like a responsible adult but I will do everything in my power to get it out there; just will need a little bit of patience in the afternoon.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

For petapan: Apology accepted. Sorry I flipped the fuck out.

I think what it is is that Mafia's my current escape from my bullshit, being reminded of all the things I can't do in it because of my bullshit hurts. If I dump core on you, it's a reaction to you accidentally poking a hole in a pressure vessel filled with a decade of bullshit when I've got my guard down, not something personal.



THAT SAID! I think its definitely scum-indicative that you'd push that harder each time that I made it clear that it's pushing my buttons, though. No offense intended, just... I did give you 2 clear "back up" signals, and you didn't until I bailed for a day. I don't see town getting anything out of continuing to push someone who clearly needs that specific subject to be dropped. Reminds me of Noraa in Newbie 2028, but more blatant -- Noraa had a good feel for what would get on my nerves and kept changing the specifics of it, so it just looked like I was getting irrationally angry at a poster no matter what she did.

You kind of make it obvious what you're doing and make it obvious that you don't give a fuck about me saying "could we DON'T" until after it impacts the gamestate. Again, no offense meant, but you clearly picked up the signals I was sending (because you specifically responded to them) and dismissed them (because you continued to press each time), repeatedly. You've been around long enough to know the benefits to doing that as scum -- which I'm not going to go into here, you can coach your team in the PT. This looks like scum activity to me -- obviously I was inclined to say that when I was mad, but I still see it now, when I'm not.

And the last time I said this sort of thing was scum, I caught scum. Because town literally neeeeever needs to push a subject in the exact way that pisses off another slot for /personal/, OOG reasons (pissing them off for purely in-game reasons, totally different story). There is /always/ a better way. And petapan, I know you are capable of saying something like "Okay, you want time, how's your next couple days look? Good? Okay, then I expect to see you actually do this stuff in the next couple days." But you didn't do that. You are capable of it, you surely are capable of thinking that "hmm, maybe I should try and get her to cooperate instead of fight back, that might get me a better response." You didn't do that, either.

So. I'm with Imperium here, and I'm calling this scum. You get to take STT's former position as Scum King. It's not all bad, though: I got a pretty crown for you.



I didn't bother doing the RLotus v everyone Day 1 reread yesterday because I was too steamed. I'll fix that today.

[RLotus]

Lotus before you shoot I think it might be a good idea if you say who so people can voice any last thoughts

Because I think Netflix shooting you has shown itself to be a mistake for the game long term and we might have avoided that if they had something and not just YOLOed it out

Surprise I'm going to shoot Duchess

[RLotus]

It's clear to me that the scumteam went into bus Duchess mode because of the wave of momentum Duchess scum reads were getting.

And, the fact that everyone was heavy handed on Norfolk and saying virtually nothing about NM is a sign that he is mafia too.

I kept getting stuck on SirCakez being mafia given how suddenly he started scumreading Duchess, it looked like they were trying to distance from each other. But I guess WhemeStar and Norfolk make more sense, because WhemeStar, Duchess, and NM all expressed scumreads on Cakez. Cakez is the proverbial line in the sand, I suppose.

I feel kind of bad being served a 5 piece on a platter by Nacho. Part of me wants to give him the gun, but that seems reckless.

[Norfolk Boy1]

Apologies for going into prod range, I was redeployed at work and have been assisting with Covid vaccinations all weekend.

I'll catch up with the game.

[petapan]

For petapan: Apology accepted. Sorry I flipped the fuck out.

I think what it is is that Mafia's my current escape from my bullshit, being reminded of all the things I can't do in it because of my bullshit hurts. If I dump core on you, it's a reaction to you accidentally poking a hole in a pressure vessel filled with a decade of bullshit when I've got my guard down, not something personal.

no it's fine, i went over the line because of frustration with other stuff in games and took it out on you and that's incredibly unfair. i got pissed off because lately people have been berating me for daring to suspect them and it gets very tiresome. but that's not on you, i have no issue with you as a person, i don't want to be a dick to you and i definitely was



anyway game stuff after this

[petapan]

i approve of a duchess shot

[petapan]

Um, I just double checked your posts and didn't find any outstanding questions for me. You don't like me reading you as toptown? You wanna tell me why you're scum? Please by all means.

i was asking about why you think rlotus was going to take a good shot because i'm not seeing a ton of overlap in your scumreads and that was very strange to me

and no i'm asking about why i'm suddenly a strong townread because i have no idea why i'd suddenly occupy that spot

[RLotus]

If Duchess ends up being town, I think it is something like unwnd/SirCakez/NM +2 (Dunn and STT maybe?)

[RLotus]

Who do you think I want to shoot?

not_mafia or unwnd?

I really don't know who you want to shoot lol

Not mafia is such a weak shot suggestion
And I'm pretty sure unwnd is not SRed by anyone
(Don't respond to this this is just thoughts as I'm reading)

This post kind of makes me see the potential in SirCakez + NM, because Cakez was vocal about wanting both Norfolk/Rockhopper for weakish reasonys even though NM should go in that lurker category as well.

I really do think Cakez is town. The argumentative process he gets in with people is at such a slight that I can't imagine he wouldn't at least be self-aware as scum. The lack of care in that department makes me think he's a townie who is just strongly defiant, getting into a back+forth like Imperium because of his beliefs. Even the minor squabble with Duchess/MUSH as well. I struggle to see ulterior motive with pushing the issue so incessantly that Tammycho breaks out THIS TEXT and tells him to stop misrepping. I mean, at that point..what have you exactly won? What does Cakez gain as scum to keep pushing and pushing and pushing at this point.

I had this same observation, but my conclusion that he is gf in the world Duchess is town, and trying to antagonize his "scumreads" to getting shot, not fearing being shot himself.

[RLotus]

Mush and Imperium are lock town in my eyes

[RLotus]

unwnd I really think is mafia if Duchess is town, because he popped in with what he called quickdraw scum reads on Duchess and Norfolk (even though he had elaborate reasons for both). If Duchess is town, this was such an opportunistic read to push, given the dichotomy between us and the fact we are likely to shoot each other.