Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[RLotus]

yes, i replaced into a scum slot and decided to get into a 1v1 with a widelytownread player, IN POPCORN MAFIA, because i'm a fucking idiot who loves throwing games

How would you have known he was going to push back on you so hard?

[Norfolk Boy1]

Man I think NM is town I am agreeing with him a lot.

Can you elaborate on this because I don't think anyone else TRs N_M

I'm townreading him too.

Is there a logical argument for scumreading Not Mafia at this point?

[SirCakez]

I just quoted it on the last page

[petapan]

yes, i replaced into a scum slot and decided to get into a 1v1 with a widelytownread player, IN POPCORN MAFIA, because i'm a fucking idiot who loves throwing games

How would you have known he was going to push back on you so hard?

i wouldn't necessarily, but when there's a strong player in the game, the thing to do as scum pretty much always is stay out of their way so you don't earn their wrath, you play around them, you don't attack them directly because if they push you back you lose, and also, because of the setup, it becomes a losing proposition to get in a fight like this as scum, even if i get imperium shot, they just turn and shoot me in the face. it's a pure lose/lose proposition so the idea that i'd play this way is nonsense, i'd be angling for shots i can realistically achieve, i don't chase impossible votes as scum but as town i'm way more willing to take unpopular stances because i have to consider every ange

i even outlined this in the death curse spectator thread a few months ago, in a similar sort of nightless setup, where town voted on someone to receive a scroll, than the recipient of that scroll passed it to another person, who passed it to a third

Subject: Death Curse Spectator/Dead PT NOW WITH 100% MORE NERO

starting to think this setup is brutal for scum, one townie gets a scumread on you you're in trouble, if you push a miscurse on someone and they omgus you you're toast

so following what i said months ago, do you really think i'm dumb enough to make the sort of mistake i said screws you in that thread? hell no, i had everything to lose and nothing to gain by getting into this fight

thinking over it more and it's super weird they are throwing some BoP shit at me, because i was fosing duchess and n_m way before they were, and was starting to fos norfolk as well, but i mention i'm tinfoiling them suddenly i'm scum and forcing my reads because i'm cornered, it makes no sense at all

[RLotus]

to be clear i'm not advocating imperium get shot right now, i would shoot norfolk before them every time and only consider them after a norfolk red flip, but that's my little paranoid theory right now

In post 1212, Imperium wrote:
So quite frankly wouldn’t you want us shot first?

no, i'm not goin to push for you to get shot first. it's a tinfoil. not a hard scumread. jesus christ

I'm not saying I have the conviction about you that Imperium does, still awaiting what they have to say. Although, this does kind of look like you wanting to throw shade at them while staying out of the way of their shot, if they get the gun. It lines up with how you say you would be playing scum tbf.

[Norfolk Boy1]

I just quoted it on the last page

I asked for logical.

It's also noteworthy that you'd try to push this more at this point. My theory is that this is an attempt to take the shot off of your buddy Duchess.

I think that you've tried to distance from each other by working Imperium from different angles. Duchess has tried to be pally and pocket, you've gone for good old fashioned scumcalling.

Post 1298 is trying to set up Imperium after Duchess is shot.

It's not working so you've gone after Not Mafia.

Reco firming my belief that Imperium and Not Mafia = town. Cakez and Duchess = scum.

[Norfolk Boy1]

Reco firming? Bloody hell. That should say reconfirming.

[petapan]

to be clear i'm not advocating imperium get shot right now, i would shoot norfolk before them every time and only consider them after a norfolk red flip, but that's my little paranoid theory right now

In post 1212, Imperium wrote:
So quite frankly wouldn’t you want us shot first?

no, i'm not goin to push for you to get shot first. it's a tinfoil. not a hard scumread. jesus christ

I'm not saying I have the conviction about you that Imperium does, still awaiting what they have to say. Although, this does kind of look like you wanting to throw shade at them while staying out of the way of their shot, if they get the gun. It lines up with how you say you would be playing scum tbf.

what purpose does that serve lmao, i'd be trying to pocket them, i know what pushes are viable and what aren't

like, my thing was i'm way more confident on norfolk being scum than them, especially at the time i made that first post, in my mind there was still a possibility i was being overly paranoid which happens to me all the time, that's why i want that shot first

[SirCakez]

I just quoted it on the last page

I asked for logical.

It's also noteworthy that you'd try to push this more at this point. My theory is that this is an attempt to take the shot off of your buddy Duchess.

I think that you've tried to distance from each other by working Imperium from different angles. Duchess has tried to be pally and pocket, you've gone for good old fashioned scumcalling.

Post 1298 is trying to set up Imperium after Duchess is shot.

It's not working so you've gone after Not Mafia.

Reco firming my belief that Imperium and Not Mafia = town. Cakez and Duchess = scum.

Wtf are you talking about Duchess has been my top shot request all day

[SirCakez]

That Norfolk post is just completely ignorant of my progression

[Imperium]

thinking over it more and it's super weird they are throwing some BoP shit at me, because i was fosing duchess and n_m way before they were, and was starting to fos norfolk as well, but i mention i'm tinfoiling them suddenly i'm scum and forcing my reads because i'm cornered, it makes no sense at all

This is garbage. hot smelly stinking garbage.

A.) I've been fosing duchess since the early game. She was part of my original scum potentially bussing or making an easy push on norfolk. Told Lotus early game that I didn't like him calling duchess a town read on an early non alignment post but liked when he started realizing he was suspicious. Mentioned I leaned duchess flipping red early, and part of the whole "egging" on Netflix you've so sloppily accused me of was because I was concerned they were bussing.

This is you again showing that you're not actually really thinking about me or my alignment. You don't care to think about whether or not your push makes sense, you only care to make the push that you need to make. You did this with the egging on argument. You latched onto Dunn's original point because it gave you a convenient out to change your mind about the original norfolk push. I don't believe for a second that you read that conversation seeing it was a conversation about reads in which I stated my thoughts on a bunch of people and say that somehow me responding to the Lotus one was egging on. I don't believe you believe that because your proficiency at this game is too high for that very superficial reaction.

I don't believe that was your original take away from that conversation, and I don't believe that when I pointed out to you that it was a conversation that if you were town your only response would be, "it's unfair you expect me to remember all the details when I just replaced in." This is not you trying to figure out alignments. I do believe that if you were town, and you were truly trying to figure out my alignment, you would go back to see if that made sense. You didn't, and you deflected to how unfair it was for me to expect you to remember details, instead of the argument at hand. You are way to conscientious of a town player to respond that way.

B) Even if you had started to suspect those three before us, why is it super weird that we throw a BoP bullshit at you? I don't understand your ire over that. What do those reads have to do with BoP and our respect for your play? I thought it was weird that in response to the BoP comment, you posted a quote from a few years ago where Matt said you had a good scum game. What does Matt thinking you have a good scum game do with my respect for your town game? You know I enjoy playing with you because I told you so when you came back. You know I respect the hell out of your play. You were phenomenal as town in FGO; yes I know you say you don't play that way all the time effort wise which is fine but damn it shows how insightful and thoughtful you are at reads. In smoke, you were the same way where you demonstrated insight and thoughtfulness, and I even said this about what I remembered about you when FFery, who expected more from you, asked me about my impression of your play.

Subject: Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

I'd like for Tammy to talk more about petapan's normal play range.

My experience with peta is seven years old, and I've never seen a scum game though I believe I remember hearing that he has a good one.

In my head, he's an easy going poster who is active but not terribly wordy and pokes around at things until he finds something that bites. But when he does can be quite insightful and has good reads, which you saw with assassin. The play might change so the meta of the play won't be the same, but I expect the insight and the way he comes to his reads probably isn't all that different, and that will come when reads form. If that makes sense.

This morning I went back and looked at his iso is Abarat and The Wire just to see if my activity memory was right, and he was little more active there (I think it was me just glancing at the iso so take that observation with a grain of salt; it was not in depth by any means) and he had a little bit more bite (in Abarat at least but that game started off weird). I wouldn't really expect the bite to be there really and old meta is old meta. I was mostly just making sure I wasn't remembering a very different play.

I kinda put peta's style in a similar vein as visorslash, I don't know if you've ever seen him play or not, but the style has some similarities I think.

Don't know if any of that helps.

So, you know I respect the fuck out of you. So when I say what I expect from you analysis-wise, it's not coming from nowhere. It's not me making up something for this game. This is something that you know I think about you.

So when I tell you I don't think a town you attacks Mush in the way that you have as town, it's because I think a town you sees at least a little of what we see. I don't think you're able to see the town in random little posts in which no push is made in the way you have in the several games we've played together recently, and then just can't see the town in Mush. And I think as town, when Mush had her melt down about her real life situation you don't push back with venom as town. I think you say something along the lines that you said to Nahdia in Smoke when you told her that you were sorry for her real life situation but that you still suspect her.

I don't think that you ignore the way the cakez thing started and how being completely misrepped and having him change arguments on me drove me to a melt down and not recognize that that comes from town me even a little bit. I don't think you simplify the argument to where I'm the one being attacked and changed tactics. I don't think you latch on to Cakez's we're going long argument because I think a town you recognizes if we gave the gun to the person who reads ME best that I'd not be laying contingency plans to get shot. You just keep ignoring every facet of your argument that doesn't make sense because pushing us is more important for your scum agenda.

You've fallen back on the "tired of getting flack for daring to question you" nonsense for both Mush and us. That is a garbage argument too. But it's one you're making because it's a fall back. Question us all you want, but make your arguments sound. Cakez is constantly pushing us in this stupid matter seemingly so unaware that we had different conversations and he didn't even try to understand me or where he was misrepping me. And with Cakez I wouldn't have gotten so mad if he would have actually argued my points and not changed the argument on me while in a very pompous maximus way acting if I'm the asshole. I think he is probably town. STT thinks we're scum for several reasons, and we think he is probably town. STT pushed Mush, and she ended up thinking he wasn't as scummy as initially; not sure if it's a town read now, but it's not scum king.

What's the difference? I'm sure you'll make up some bullshit for this here, but the difference is that I can see their push as coming from town (STT) or the rest of their play as coming from town (Cakez). I don't get that from you. Your play feels very agenda driven, your reads feel positional, and most importantly your analysis is superficial as hell. Nothing about your play seems like looking at the game from a town perspective.

And before you throw the unfair thing at me, no I don't expect the same level of play that you displayed in FGO and in Smoke, Tenet was fast moving and I don't remember that you did very much, and Tenet was a weird one but you still demonstrated insight in the posts that I did read of yours even if your mood there was a little more tetchy.) But I do absolutely expect some insight and analysis from you.

lol me if I am wrong but it's been a long time since I've been this confident that someone is scum. If I had the gun right now I'd have shot you pages ago.

I need to get back to work, so I'll stop here. Hopefully Nacho gets home from work on time today so we can finish up our thoughts and get them out there. I'll let you guys know if he's gonna be working another 50 thousand hour long game.

Oh and I do still think if you think we're scum here, you advocate for us to be shot right now.

[petapan]

tldr

[SirCakez]

imperium you're doing it again

[Imperium]

cakez if i play with you in the near future, which i'm pretty convinced i'm not going to do, when I don't interact with you at all. This is why.

[WhemeStar]

tldr

[SirCakez]

cakez if i play with you in the near future, which i'm pretty convinced i'm not going to do, when I don't interact with you at all. This is why.

ok i'm sorry you feel that way

[petapan]

nah i'm jk but i really don't see continuing this being productive, go ahead and call me scum for it, it's not gonna convince anyone of anything and we're going to end up going in circles, i still don't want you shot today and you're not going to get shot today

[Imperium]

Imperium, this is what I was referencing.

i feel like you're interaction with me in total bad faith cakez.

How is this any different from the way I grilled gamma on his diamond sentinel read, while thinking diamond sentinel was likely to be scum, but that I thought gamma's read on him was pushing him disingenuously?

How is it?

I think you are scum so yeah this is not good faith
I don't remember what you're referring to, something in Smoke right?

I remember reading this yeah, but I don't interpret in the same way you do. I don't think a scum him admits to arguing with me in the way I'm accusing him of because quite frankly I don't think he realizes it. I think it was a quippy come back.

[Imperium]

nah i'm jk but i really don't see continuing this being productive, go ahead and call me scum for it, it's not gonna convince anyone of anything and we're going to end up going in circles, i still don't want you shot today and you're not going to get shot today

I want you shot today!

[petapan]

i'd take it

[unwnd]

I have thoughts that I have been keeping to myself in regards to Peta v. Imperium, cause I do find myself mediating conversations more than I should.

[SirCakez]

i'm kinda just done with 1v1s and want the shot to happen

[unwnd]

Tammycho are you still gonna drop a readslist eventually?

Peta would you be willing to do the same? Even if you want to tl;dr their wall, I'd like to see your thoughts on everyone (doesn't have to be detailed)

[Not_Mafia]

tldr

[Imperium]

I need to get back to work, so I'll stop here. Hopefully Nacho gets home from work on time today so we can finish up our thoughts and get them out there. I'll let you guys know if he's gonna be working another 50 thousand hour long game.