TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Dannflor]

take care of yourself

[DrippingGoofball]

LLD is an extremely valuable scumpal.

She's also a good scum hunter, and you don't lim good players just because they "may" have rolled Scum (which is true for every single player in this game except me from my own PoV)

What is the

case

on LLD? Oh, I forgot. Cases are scummy. Got it.

I did make a case tho

[Dunnstral]

But you were being bussed, which is something different than a block of scum voting together on a townie

I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that

OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+

I don't think their reaction is towny, at least. What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time. It seems like a fine vote to me

Thank fucking god you're town.

This is literally where I'm at right now and I'm loathe to talk much about it because the minute I stop doing the charismatic confidence bit, the hercule wagon will dissipate?

and I'm right now more certain than not he's scum... but there is a voice in the back of my head whispering bad thoughts to me, and it's talking a lot about the way the 2 wagons have progressed today, people's stances, and what makes sense for scum to do if we were both town.

Can you vibe at me wrt to that topic?

Also I want to be clear that I'm doing something I've basically never done before and being transparent with my process a bit here

Which feels really fucking vulnerable and bad, so I'm really hoping that it pays off and either cures my paranoia or refocuses me in a correct path if needed.

lol

Yeah, which wagon are you talking about, the worst or yourself?

[Dunnstral]

What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time.

i can't interpret this sentence can you rephrase

torn apart instead of town apart

[Dunnstral]

What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time.

i can't interpret this sentence can you rephrase

torn apart instead of town apart

I'm saying that I'm not so certain on what I unvoted him for after reading other opinions on the next few pages

Spoiler: DGB Reads

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Xtoxm
Dannflor
Winter Flakes
Hopkirk
AGar
jjh927 - low activity, low quality post by did drop a towntell
Titus - VLA, but I like what I see thus far
hercule - was going to say null until I caught a towntell

NULL

mastina - I have been enjoying her posts on a personal and intellectual level, I have seen nothing I would consider remotely scummy but she's not someone who can be read on Day 1.
Almost50 - he is so giddy I read his post with a helium balloon voice, I don't know if that's AI.
the worst - VLA, waiting for more info
Cephrir - was going to be in my town list but I saw a few things that pinged.

SCUM

Dunnstral - his xtoxm scumread feels like he's scum sensing a weak target and picking at him. a lot of going back and forth and fencesitting.
Ythan - low activity, meaningless posts
not-so innocentvillager - morose and demotivated, not solving
Lady Lambdadelta - aggressively discrediting players, manipulative ego post

DGB Gamestate read

hercule (7):

Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan,

OkaPoka,

the worst, Dannflor,

Dunnstral,

Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta (5):

DrippingGoofball, hercule, Hopkirk,

innocentvillager,

Xtoxm
the worst (2):

jjh927, Winter Flakes

Dannflor (1): mastina
Almost50 (1): Almost50

Not Voting (2):

Titus,

AGar

I also glanced at the vote count after seeing dgb's reads, this thinking feels towny, even if you came to a different conclusion

[Dannflor]

Dunn, do you have a read on Hopkirk this game?

[mastina]

Fair warning: I'm not in the best state to be catching up, but because I took yesterday off, I have to. (Pro tip for people who suffer from mafia burnout: taking a one-day break from the site is an amazing way to prevent it. It does have a consequence in a game like this, leading to me being very behind, buthey, I do good in a catchup-induced environment anyway. )

you are now my biggest concern (I think you're the Scum team leader).

The fact you're not talking to your teammates is apparent enough from this line alone.

The first step is that I am constantly altering my meta. If I can remember playing a specific way in a specific situaiton, I'm probably not playing that way. So this use of "I've seen that line before as scum!" is likely either false, or worse it's true and I'm cycling back to one of my old styles.

I am also a pioneer of what I called "cyclic style" of play, where instead of evolving truly linearly over time, I noted that the evolution of my play was largely cyclical, a circle, where I may be different than I was 1-2 years ago but show a strong similarity to how I was 5 years ago, so to speak.

I, also, will never play the same way twice if I can remember it.

From this I did develop a similar theory.

Which is more or less that while no play will be literally identical game to game for players who change/evolve, when you've played enough scumgames to the point where you can't remember them, that there will be small things that repeat. These small repeats won't be there for every scumgame, but will appear in one or two scumgames.

If I were in a better headspace I could explain this better but this'll have to do for now since it's not a case I'm writing here.

(This also applies to LLD's DID--there may be four of her, but each will play similarly when playing, so to speak. One may not play similarly to the other three but will play similarly to themselves. Which means that over enough time, a meta can be developed. The time involved means that each person will have shifted and changed, but not literally every single thing will be different.)

Because I don't personally buy that he's towntold either

While there are players that "they haven't towntold therefore they're scum" is valid for, and there are games where "they haven't towntold when everyone else has therefore they're scum" is valid...neither is the case here.
Not only because in this game, we're not going to win by not eliminating everyone who has towntold because too many players can towntell as scum, but also because hercule can and has towntold.

Dude. Titus is making sense and posting reasonable posts that contain correct logic and sound deductive reasoning. Fuck, you're scum aren't you

I mean. Yes, Titus is scum, but it's rather telling that rather than pushing Titus who is scum you're pushing hercule who isn't.

special shoutout mastina for walking me through her meta read on dann

I can do similar for other reads, too, notably my read on you and LLD in particular; I'll hopefully find a good point to do so in my catchup but if not will try to do after catching up.

what are the perspective flaws/slips? i don't think you've mentioned those and those are at the top of my list for actually-alignment-indactive

Actually I have been mentioning them. 302 is a big one, but there's also:

he also thinks scum herc would know such a play is unlikely to repay him well

can auro expand on this specifically
I don't really follow why that would be the case

I also don't think town-Dann makes this post.

I don't really think people (generally speaking) know intimately the differences between their scum and town play as most people just try to replicate their town game as scum. I don't think hercule believing he could make a drastic shift is necessarily town indicative.

The first sentence conflicts with the second in an expanded nuanced thought when you think about it.
It is true that people, generally speaking, don't know intimately the differences between their scum and townplay.

And yet, last game was hercule as scum and this game hercule is entirely different--while it may be true that hercule believing he could make a shift isn't town-indicative, the very notable difference between this game and last game IS.

Like his pop-in / catchup where he quoted a bunch of stuff and responded to people really did nothing for me in differentiating this game from last

Why is it that I the person who out of this playerlist is probably in general bottom 4 in tonereading can tell instantly that hercule's tone is entirely different in his catchup quote wall?

I was

reading

last game's quote walls from hercule--they were, tonally, entirely different from here.

I should not be the one seeing this night and day difference and defending it because tone is not my specialty, and yet even me, mastina, the borderline-tonedeaf person, can see the stark contrast in tone between hercule this game and last game.

Why the fuck aren't people who're toneread scumhunters defending hercule right now?

All of these I probably didn't do a good job of explaining why they contain flaws in perspective from Dannflor that I think indicate he's scum, but they're examples of posts that show that there is flaws in Dann's perspective that I feel are scum-indicative from him.

[mastina]

idk how to feel about mastina not mentioning me by name (i think exclusively not mentioning me) when she was talking about people who she thinks are better/worse at scum

I don't have a gauge on your scumgame, but I do know that you're quite good as town. I'm pretty sure I listed you in the 11-13 players who deserve the chance to be given time to catch scum.

Hopkirk, can we hypnotize you to vote for LLD? We really could use your help right now.

No hypnotism needed from me.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

If LLD is scum, Hercule almost certainly is.

LLD is town because LLD would never push hercule here as scum

Dude. Titus is making sense and posting reasonable posts that contain correct logic and sound deductive reasoning.

This makes so much sense! I would never do this!

(For the record--yes, I think that the interaction is indicative of Titus and LLD being scumbuddies, and hercule pointing this out IS town even if you think the point is wrong. It's a hard thought for scum to come up with, especially for hercule in particular off of what I've seen of his scumgame.)

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, do you have a read on Hopkirk this game?

Leaning towards being scummy, I didn't like the comment about cephrir/lld not being t/t - how would he deduce this? Felt like a false dichotomy

The parts where he's talking about flopz are null to me

[mastina]

I think I have a method of reading her later, or at least it worked once.

If I am posting, especially with conviction (tho the conviction is optional; I did have one game recently where I lacked conviction and I fucking hated it), I am town. If I am actively producing content, explaining reads, trying to get support, bridge the town, work with them, and get them on the same page, I am town. If I am posting readslists showing the evolution in my thought process, I am town (even if these readslists later get posted less and less often due to there being less to shift in them).

If I am largely not posting and when I do the content is light and there's very little in the way of definitive reads with all of them being unexplained, then I'm probably scum.

Also, the more A50 posts the more I think he's town, and since that read is inconvenient for scum as they would very much like him to be one of their miselims, I plan to sit on it for a bit.

Ditto this. And to some extent, I think it applies to you, too--the more I see from you this game, the more I think you're town. And as that is a stance inconvenient for scum because eliminating you due to paranoia of you last game is something scum would want, I plan on sticking to it.

i might be less inclined to trust her hard townreads but she did have 2/3 confident scumreads that were actually scum?

On that note, people should also remember who the names were that I had accurate scumreads on: Cephrir and hercule.

Both were scum last game and I nailed them there; both are townreads of mine this game, in hercule's case being the strongest of strong townreads. (hercule is literally my strongest townread this game.)

So the people voting hercule are essentially saying, "mastina, who correctly identified hercule as scum last game, is not attuned to hercule's play enough; he's still scum this game and mastina just doesn't see it".

When, no, hercule has a literal night and day difference to how he has reacted, in similar situations.

I'm mixed on Hercule

There should be no doubt to players of last game that hercule is town here.

People are holding hercule to some sort of golden standard that shouldn't be there: "hercule isn't obviously powertown here and given how he fooled us all last game he must be scum this game", or some flawed logic along those lines. Of thinking hercule hasn't shown himself to be clearly town and that his content this game doesn't strongly look town.

But there are very strong differences from hercule last game and hercule this game, and hercule isn't a powertown player. You don't need to look at him as some perfect scum player with total control over style who needs to produce content that cannot come from any scum player in order for him to be town; you can look at what he is doing, both overall and in specific situations, and get a good read on him.

[mastina]

does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD? Open question to the table

While LLD will insist she does this behavior as town, no, I do not think it's from her as town, and I want to get into explaining this with past experience to help show the difference.

ceph's recent posts are +town and Hercule's recent posts are +scum

Oh Hopkirk, you want another example of a thought that doesn't track with Dannflor-town? It's this. While I'm not sure on Cephrir-town being unreasonable (hey I think Ceph's posts there are town so it's possible Dann would as town, too), gutwise I feel like Dann-town wouldn't be townreading Cephrir's posts there.

But the real important one is the hercule stance--hercule's posts in that area are some of the towniest in the game, especially when you contrast how hercule reacted last game to pressure compared to how hercule reacted this game under pressure.

Do y'all remember how last game, when I scumread hercule, he freaked out, blew up, had an explosion of overreacting to my position that he was scum?

I sure do!

Do you think hercule's reaction to LLD's pressure was freaking out, blowing up, having an explosion of overreacting to her position that he's scum?

I sure don't! Quite the opposite, the difference between how hercule-scum treated my scumread on him and how hercule this game is treating LLD's scumread on him is literally night and day polar opposites: he's calm, collected, reasonable, genuinely reaching out, and coming to nuanced conclusions; he also was conferring with his teammates and asking for their feedback.

Do you want me to actually quote hercule last game where he was scum blowing up in response to the scumread on him, compared to here?
Or will you stop being lazy fucks, remember this yourself, and realize hercule is town?

[mastina]

Yaknow what let's actually put that work in.

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

And there has been plenty of times where scum has been 'caught' but town loses momentum and interest and they slip by even though they were 'caught'.

Sure, but come a future day, say by D3-5 in that range.

Y'all are gonna look back at the mislynches on the slots like ABR and Xtoxm, scrutinize their wagons looking for the scum on them, and be wondering... "why the fuck did we eliminate them, again?". You're gonna look back, realize in hindsight they're not nearly as scummy as they looked while alive, and wonder how the fuck they ended up being eliminated.

And if you're smart, you'll realize it's because in a bout of stupidity, y'all ended up jumping on thinking you've 'caught' scum for things that aren't actually scum.

But you'll probably pull another dumb, instead of realizing the above, thinking that clearly, the mislynches were the machinations of deepscum that powerwolfed and paranoia-vote the powertown players that you were yourself among, forgetting that they were in the same mindset you were in at the time.

How's

that

for a prediction?

I don't understand where a single one of your thought processes come from, genuinely. It feels like you are on a different planet than the rest of the game and I'm not sure if it's because you haven't caught up yet you're trying to be present or if you just are informed of things that I'm not and therefore have to approach the game from a different angle

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

on another other note, hello mastina welcome to the game. I'm not the biggest fan of your style of introduction to the game since you are putting yourself in a position to out stale reads, but I guess if they continue to evolve it's fine. I'm just a bit pinged that you might be pushing Jackson's narrative rather than reading for yourself (specifically you both listed me as scum which is a bit eyebrow raise - for example, you put me as scum for my first post and then didn't seem to move it, rather just reinforce it), especially since you went so far as to say you couldn't see the PT (I'm assuming you have access to the discord?). Like, to me, it makes more sense to read the game holistically. On the flip side, if you're being genuine I don't mind seeing some progression and it doesn't seem like you are even close to caught up. You can have space to enter the game as far as I'm concerned

(Speaking of which, he didn't exactly react well to Jackson's suspicion either)
These two both sounds reasonable enough, but what about these?

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

I wish, but all I really got is that hercule's posts look like scum through and through. I don't really have objective reasoning for why. Everything from hercule just feels forced and fake, and looks like scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled to the brim with greats. I just don't see anything town in hercule at all, and the few stances I've seen from hercule feel slimy.

what the fuck is this? this might possibly be the most made-up garbage read I've seen the entire game, and that's saying something considering Ythan accused me of lying about some real mundane shit. "scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled with greats" ??????? i don't even know a single person at the table. imagine trying to metaread me and not even knowing basic facts about me

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

I wish, but all I really got is that hercule's posts look like scum through and through. I don't really have objective reasoning for why. Everything from hercule just feels forced and fake, and looks like scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled to the brim with greats. I just don't see anything town in hercule at all, and the few stances I've seen from hercule feel slimy.

what the fuck is this? this might possibly be the most made-up garbage read I've seen the entire game, and that's saying something considering Ythan accused me of lying about some real mundane shit. "scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled with greats" ??????? i don't even know a single person at the table. imagine trying to metaread me and not even knowing basic facts about me

I'm so triggered by this. Slimy? bitch where

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

i feel real similar about mastina's slot. i want her to be town because

i like her reads

lol what? did you even read her reads, like actually read them. or did you just see a wallpost and like the effort

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

I don't get why an ABR wagon sprang up.

Because people wanna replace one wagon on town that's being scumread for understandable but ultimately wrong reasons, for a different wagon on town that's being scumread for understandable but ultimately wrong reasons.

you talk with a lot of confidence for someone who has read less than half of the game and has noticeably bad reads

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

@mastina you are so far into the weeds trying to guess what ABR is thinking for a slot that patently refuses to express their thoughts

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it.

1: Engaging with present is more important than not engaging and reading the past.
2: People have said that I lack the context, but whenever the context is brought up, I've investigated the context to analyze it.
3: Upon investigating the context, I've pointed out the flaws in their reasoning and given my thoughts on it.
4: People continue to say that I lack context, that my position is wrong. I continue to investigate any additional context they show, and continue to point out why I feel their stance is mistaken.

Just because I haven't read everything doesn't mean I am incapable of engaging on things--and I feel I raise valid points with my investigation that are being written off as "lol, lacks context", when...I HAVE investigated the context in them.

It's not just that you are lacking context, it's like your brain is functioning on a different wavelength to mine and what appears to be everyone else's

it's jumped out at me multiple times and often that's a scum sign of someone who is making connections that either don't exist or that I can't make because they're not readily available from a plain reading of the thread

Subject: TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

I would give more credit to oka's "mastina is being mastina" but frankly I'm tired of every scumlean I have being discredited by meta. I really can't be fucked on trying to metaread strangers in an 18 person day one. If you're scummy you're scummy.

hercule as scum had a level of hostility and vitriol towards me upon seeing my scumread on his slot.

In what posts does hercule show that level of hostility and vitriol towards LLD's scumread of his slot this game?

...What's that, he doesn't? In fact he does the opposite with him approaching her calmly and rationally, trying to reason with her?

Gee I wonder why there's such a strong difference.

Maybe because hercule isn't scum this game?

[DrippingGoofball]

Squeeeeeeeee

Mastina is voting LLD!

[mastina]

this type of appeal to the crowd shit is not towny, hercule

That sort of appeal to the crowd shit may not be townie, fair enough, but it is also not scummy.

I feel like you could be literally doing anything else in this game besides trying to appear the good-faith half of the LLD vs. hercule 1v1 and instead you're trying to do something that I think you should *know* is unproductive
Like you trying to engage LLD here doesn't feel like you actually want to solve her, it feels like you want to show yourself off as towny

This is a bad take, maybe bad faith, logic from Dannflor tho: the engagement with LLD absolutely looks like it WAS in good faith. The contrast between how hercule handled my 'tunnel' on him last game and how he's handling LLD's 'tunnel' on him this game is night and day. Last game was an overreaction; this game is actually genuine, sincere effort.

hercule has been doing plenty beyond just engaging LLD and when he engaged LLD he did so in what was transparently good faith.

While everyone, regardless of their alignment, will respond to pressure on them with some level of defensiveness, there is a marked difference between scum becoming defensive towards the pressure and town addressing the pressure. (Playstyle-wise, some town players do become more defensive under pressure than most, but in general, town players tend to address the pressure while still doing other things, whereas scum players overreact to the pressure. You can see the contrast between the two in hercule's different reactions. Last game, hercule-scum overreacted to the pressure. This game, hercule, due to being town, addressed the pressure but was still doing other things.)

[mastina]

okay but the way you phrased that whole post sounds like you're trying to set up a dichotomy of "I'm the good-faith player here just trying to understand you LLD and you are the bad-faith player"

Bluntly?

That's exactly the case.

LLD's push on hercule

is

in bad faith.
hercule's stances are very much in good faith.

It doesn't matter if you think that hercule's posts are trying to set up that stance--that stance is objectively true so hercule having it is just stating the truth.

the statement "it's clear you have no reason for fosing me" is just untrue

Is it tho?

There really ISN'T a real case on hercule's early posting.

the whole post seems more like a cookie cutter post you'd make to discredit someone who's attacking you than it does a post that has anything to do with the actual gamestate we have right now.

Is it though? Because hercule tried the discredit-someone-attacking-him last game, and the way he did so when he was scum was entirely different than how he approached LLD.

The posts he made towards LLD DID look to me like they were reflecting the gamestate and bluntly?

There's nothing to discredit from LLD because LLD doesn't have a real case on hercule.

Last game, hercule very much did try to discredit me when I was attacking him. I just did a quote wall showing it.
This game, hercule was not discrediting LLD when LLD attacked him, because the things he said were not discreditatory in nature.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But you were being bussed, which is something different than a block of scum voting together on a townie

I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that

OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+

I don't think their reaction is towny, at least. What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time. It seems like a fine vote to me

Thank fucking god you're town.

This is literally where I'm at right now and I'm loathe to talk much about it because the minute I stop doing the charismatic confidence bit, the hercule wagon will dissipate?

and I'm right now more certain than not he's scum... but there is a voice in the back of my head whispering bad thoughts to me, and it's talking a lot about the way the 2 wagons have progressed today, people's stances, and what makes sense for scum to do if we were both town.

Can you vibe at me wrt to that topic?

Also I want to be clear that I'm doing something I've basically never done before and being transparent with my process a bit here

Which feels really fucking vulnerable and bad, so I'm really hoping that it pays off and either cures my paranoia or refocuses me in a correct path if needed.

lol

Yeah, which wagon are you talking about, the worst or yourself?

Hercule.

[mastina]

i feel like i'm being gaslit here: i am trying to find mafia and i'm being accused of not doing anything towny, what else do you expect town to do?

This is in fact accurate by the way.

I don't think Hecule's reaction to being pushed has been great, but I don't see what you do

hercule's reaction to being pushed could indeed be better, but all things considered, it could be much worse.

And all things considered includes considering last game to give some context to how hercule reacted as scum to being pushed.

hercule's reaction to being pushed this game by LLD is literally night and day different to how he reacted to being pushed last game by me.

Last game, his reaction to my push came from him being scum.
This game, his reaction is night and day different from last game.

So do you folks really believe that the night and day difference in how he reacted to LLD's push this game and my push last game is worthless?

Because it's not, especially for a player like hercule who hasn't had the time to establish a breadth and depth to his scumplay to show that level of flexibility.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mastina, you're a literally anchor on any game you play and you make mafia unfun.

I've gotten to the point where I want to just give up for my own self meta so when I flip town here if I ever have the displeasure of playing with you, I can quote posts from this game until you drown.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like genuinely if you are town you have succeeded at nothing but making a townie want to die and hope that town loses this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also RC is a bad person and I'll say it loud and I'll say it anywhere and I don't give a fuck who cares.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If I agree to die here, can I trust this town to kill people in order I ask until you hit a townie?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Answer is probably no, which means to play to my win condition I have to actually fucking try and live

in a game with mastina being the standard anchor she is

greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dunn if you're around I want to dismantle my own wagon I think, but I need to talk to someone who I have the remotest sense of trust in to decide whether my paranoia is legitimate or not.

It also doesn't hurt my team is in my ear about all of this too so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

my own wagon emaning the one on hercule, not the wagon on me, to be clear

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Surely, some of bickering players are scum.

But I keep coming back to all the resistance for a rainbow road, sparkling blue sky LLD wagon.

LLD is an extremely valuable scumpal. No scum in their right mind would sacrifice such a blessed partner to bulldoze a town.

And theres a handful of players that are against it in a stubborn way saying she'd too difficult to put on the saddle to ride the elimination mule out of town to the dead thread. Much like ABR was against the xtoxm wagon.

Hey DGB are you willing to bet your life I'm scum?