TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[OkaPoka]

You're going to all hate me but can a chicken just vibe and be a secret puppetmaster trying to have things happen

i have top secret ulterior motives cmon guys trust, and its not just summoning cthulhu

[innocentvillager]

cthulululslululuullulmluulululullululullululllualulululululullululslulullululululullhulullululululululullululumlululullulululululluluolululululuulululluluulullululultulululululululuululululhulululululuulluluulululu

[Titus]

I'm going to have to read this game soon. :/ Right now, I am pretty sure scum would want to stay away from the T v T without doing anything. Right now, that's what my position is doing now unless I case a better suspect though.

[OkaPoka]

Bundled are the fates of us

adsfgh mastina makes good points to be honest, but also mastina always makes convincing points when she isn't talking about you

[OkaPoka]

I'm going to have to read this game soon. :/ Right now, I am pretty sure scum would want to stay away from the T v T without doing anything. Right now, that's what my position is doing now unless I case a better suspect though.

up here whats the tvt?

[innocentvillager]

I don’t get why Hercule couldn’t have been coached on reacting to pressure differently

“the difference between this game and last game is night and day so he’s town” doesn’t feel like a convincing argument in isolation? like that’s one of the reasons I’m having a hard time getting reads and it’s not really for the reason you said about “scum have to be good” lol.

[Titus]

I'm going to have to read this game soon. :/ Right now, I am pretty sure scum would want to stay away from the T v T without doing anything. Right now, that's what my position is doing now unless I case a better suspect though.

up here whats the tvt?

Lady and hercule

[OkaPoka]

now i don't know if i buy the coaching argument because from what koba has told me, hercule has an established scum meta on epicmafia and he is pretty good at it bleh, spf and super are both more known for town play i think as well so the only possible person who would actually be coaching him would probs be joqiza and koba did not inform me on joqiza /shrug

[Titus]

I'm finding hercule is much less researched this game overall

[OkaPoka]

wait and give me some time to dig up old discord logs

maybe koba gave me more breadcrumbs i can read about because they (koba) did link me a bunch of games and i was too lazy and am too lazy to read and figure out epicmafia's ui (and meta in general)

[innocentvillager]

regardless if it’s coaching or not (also peta is good at scum and I saw him coach a newer scum buddy a lot once) it’s very he purposely reacted differently because he knew we all know he reacted that way last game

Like if I was scum this game literally I would just try to play the same way I did last game

idk, it’s just all so abuseable that i almost think in isolation playing completely differently is +same alignment as last time

[OkaPoka]

'til hercule comes back from wherever he's gone its going to be hard to resolve some stuff

but i did do a refresher and yeah i mean hercule is not slotting into either the koba given meta w.r.t. him being scum or town, where as last game he started out on a townish trajectory but pivoted over to scum with some subtle tells ish

idk

i hoped to see more from hercule before this all came down but it looks like its all coming down

[OkaPoka]

you guys haven't played with real hercule and neither have i but supposedly i have the best meta on hercule and if we are really debating hercule meta, truth is, we haven't gotten him to a point where he's done something meta AI lol

i just keep praying with my fishing but maybe its time to go to another pond

[innocentvillager]

Bundled are the fates of us

adsfgh mastina makes good points to be honest, but also mastina always makes convincing points when she isn't talking about you

didn’t you just say mastina makes good points? which points are you referring to then

[OkaPoka]

get that the points where hercule is significantly different in reaction from last game scum hercule is a good point and possibly +town points

but there are other tells that koba had given me, that are more subtle, that are ai for either town or scum, that have not been entered into yet

like reading hercule from a random person i guess mastina's read works but reading hercule as the guy from epicmafia in the lens of koba, idk we just don't have enough

maybe that's fine to be honest

[OkaPoka]

older game does suggest that maybe hercule does not know what koba uses for the tell? idk tbh maybe its not even a tell and im overrating the advice of my former teammate and since it happened once im confbiased into needing him to do the tell

[OkaPoka]

but i will say his town tell wasn't exactly the greatest town tell advice to be honest sometimes i just want to fish

[OkaPoka]

the thing is where do i cast my line now

iv what are your thoughts on my predicament

[DrippingGoofball]

The scum isn't helping me wagon LLD.

Why?

[Titus]

The scum isn't helping me wagon LLD.

Why?

Because LLD is loudly pushing town maybe

[innocentvillager]

get that the points where hercule is significantly different in reaction from last game scum hercule is a good point and possibly +town points

I’m mostly just not convinced of this

[innocentvillager]

idk I’ve never been exclusive enough to have secret unknown exclusive meta so i don’t know what to tell you about that oka

[OkaPoka]

does that make a difference? look how hercule came to vote me, and how when i refused to interact with him in the way he wanted he then decided his vote was really real only THEN.

So? hercule had you in his "not done anything townie" pile. DGB asked him to vote you; he obliged. He then, after voting, continued to try and sort you; he concluded scum.

There is nothing scum in that progression because if you say townies don't vote a nullread they've seen nothing town from when asked to by another player, and later sort the player they're voting as genuinely scum, you're a fucking liar; that behavior is incredibly common especially from players of your generation. Having a "nullread" that you're willing to vote and continue to sort after voting is not scum behavior.

If anything, it's a townie behavior, but even if you disagree, it's definitely null-at-worst. Which is definitely not scum.

Because I too believe his frustration here is completely real. He is GENUINELY upset and frustrated. That's not fake. But his frustration and upset here don't mean shit because the frustration is easily explained by him being upset at how I got to my read, likely because it was right.

This is a reasonable argument in isolation but falls apart when given the context of last game, which I have shown.

hercule, last game, was frustrated and upset at me--I was right on him, and he exploded.

hercule, this game, is frustrated and upset--but the frustration is nothing like the frustration he showed when I was right on him.

If hercule were scum this game, I would expect him to show similar behavior to last game, maybe even worse. (If he were scum twice in a row, and scumread by a player twice in a row for seemingly no reason, I'd expect his blowup to be WORSE the second time, due to the sheer implausibility of getting scum twice, being widely townread twice, only to have one player scumread him and be strong about it.)

Instead, hercule's reaction to the pressure this game is night and day different--the frustration and upsetness is present the same, but what he did is entirely different.

Do you want to address the point that Hercule is flailing about not for being misread but for being caught for the wrong reasons? Because that's become the most convincing point to me right now.

You may hate my posts, but I feel like I've done a VERY damn good job of explaining how hercule this game isn't "caught for the wrong reasons"--when I called hercule's posts slimey last game, his ballistic reaction is what "caught for the wrong reasons" would look like.

His reaction this game is night and day different.

And literally every player who was in last game who doesn't realize the difference was apparently not paying attention that game. Because the contrast between the two is very much evident to me. Did y'all not see the overreaction last game for context for this game? You were players in that game at that point so you SHOULD have read it, and knowing he was scum and having seen it there, know about how different his reaction is here.

meteor

[innocentvillager]

right

I definitely would not expect scum!hercule to act similarly if pushed by mastina at all, wouldn’t that just get him scumread

I can maybe buy that it’s possible scum!hercule will blow up even worse? but he already blew up last game kind of so it makes sense for him to take a totally different approach

like channeling his genuine frustration at being caught into purposely reacting differently to pressure than last game

[OkaPoka]

men like hercule are def good enough to change reactions i agree which is why im sitting on a beautiful fence at the moment

i can see mastina's argument and upon first reading it i mean its a good argument, but all mastina arguments are good arguments upon first read