TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Cephrir]

pretty world this is

admittedly most of the time when hercule post my visceral reaction is townleans and i end up walking back on it a few hours later but this is no different, it does look pretty townie

and he unvoted LLD ugh is it mastina, i really can't do mastina

do u think that can't come from scum? i don't.

i feel like this game we're just townreading anyone who makes long posts because they're long.

[hercule]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

mm okay... well. let me try to get some insight here: what do you think you did last game that you should have been caught for by someone who knows your meta?

[hercule]

pretty world this is

admittedly most of the time when hercule post my visceral reaction is townleans and i end up walking back on it a few hours later but this is no different, it does look pretty townie

and he unvoted LLD ugh is it mastina, i really can't do mastina

are you not gonna comment on my scumread on you? what do you make of my reasoning for it? do you feel I am misconstruing you in some way?

[Cephrir]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

mm okay... well. let me try to get some insight here: what do you think you did last game that you should have been caught for by someone who knows your meta?

i think maybe the constant vote changing was a scum maneuver from me. i also possibly cared more about what people thought of me.

also i think i was confident a few times because i knew none of the people who would catch me out on it are in team mafia.

[innocentvillager]

hercule ive spent an inordinate amt of time on you because sorting you seems to be high priority aorn with the wagon on you

LLD is also a major wagon but from what i hear her scumgame is very good and AtE-heavy as well, so that's also a priority for me but admittedly ive found it easier to engage with the discussion around you so that's where ive been focusing aorn

mastina, who i believe is very likely to be town, has a super strong townread on you, and if she can convince me/make me see her POV, i would gain an invaluable townread and can push against your wagon

[OkaPoka]

thin chance maybe idk

it could come from scum agh but it ~feels~ like a townie catchup wall tonally i guess is the best way to describe it

hercule the reason why i wanted to camp on you and stay silent is because if i don't out my reasons to sit on you for the sake of pressure, it looks a lot scarier for you. basically i was fishing for my data and seeing if i could see a meta crack. but like mastina is a butt and lld doesn't really want it so a lot of my purpose has been undermined.

i left and came back because i wanted to explore other things and got bored but LLD seemed like she wanted to play warper and after a bit of remembering, i was like i can do a warper game. part of playing with a warper is making them commit and not letting them back out because giving them that ability to blame the rest of us and is how they would win as scum ehh this goes into theory but yeah.

i seriously thought about the idea of an LLD bus on you for some moments there as well, it was a win win for me trying to force LLD to flip you because of some internal speculation in my discord. but this doesn't really matter anymore and reasons change i guess. i don't even know how comfortable with this theory right now because i still need to figure out if mastina's trying to trick me and if that's ai because she 100% feels more agenda-y and less grandstand-y this game.

[innocentvillager]

like just claiming scum lmao, feels like scum wouldn't be so bold

also if we're gonna go by meta i think of the times ive claimed scum early game i was something like 75% likely to actually be scum i think (if there's anything more specifically AI it's probably related to the way i claim scum ??)

if we include this game in there tho it's 60%!

[hercule]

and i mean, it's not gonna do much for you because lolselfmeta.

but you may recall me saying in the scum pt last game that my scum game is imitating my town game. so by suspecting me for being similar, you're kinda just complimenting my play last game.

mm okay... well. let me try to get some insight here: what do you think you did last game that you should have been caught for by someone who knows your meta?

i think maybe the constant vote changing was a scum maneuver from me. i also possibly cared more about what people thought of me.

also i think i was confident a few times because i knew none of the people who would catch me out on it are in team mafia.

okay I don't think this really helps much fmpov but acknowledged

hercule ive spent an inordinate amt of time on you because sorting you seems to be high priority aorn with the wagon on you

LLD is also a major wagon but from what i hear her scumgame is very good and AtE-heavy as well, so that's also a priority for me but admittedly ive found it easier to engage with the discussion around you so that's where ive been focusing aorn

mastina, who i believe is very likely to be town, has a super strong townread on you, and if she can convince me/make me see her POV, i would gain an invaluable townread and can push against your wagon

valid enough reasoning, cool

thin chance maybe idk

it could come from scum agh but it ~feels~ like a townie catchup wall tonally i guess is the best way to describe it

hercule the reason why i wanted to camp on you and stay silent is because if i don't out my reasons to sit on you for the sake of pressure, it looks a lot scarier for you. basically i was fishing for my data and seeing if i could see a meta crack. but like mastina is a butt and lld doesn't really want it so a lot of my purpose has been undermined.

i left and came back because i wanted to explore other things and got bored but LLD seemed like she wanted to play warper and after a bit of remembering, i was like i can do a warper game. part of playing with a warper is making them commit and not letting them back out because giving them that ability to blame the rest of us and is how they would win as scum ehh this goes into theory but yeah.

i seriously thought about the idea of an LLD bus on you for some moments there as well, it was a win win for me trying to force LLD to flip you because of some internal speculation in my discord. but this doesn't really matter anymore and reasons change i guess. i don't even know how comfortable with this theory right now because i still need to figure out if mastina's trying to trick me and if that's ai because she 100% feels more agenda-y and less grandstand-y this game.

first of all what is a warper I think you've said that like 10 times and each time it flies over my head, my guess is it's like a player who bends the gravity of the game towards themselves and tries to drive it?

i can somewhat buy your argument regarding "silent pressure" but the wagon got up to 7 votes and you stayed on it, i feel like that's at least somewhat signaling that you're okay if I get pushed over

what entails "figuring out mastina" I feel like she's blatant town. also what is your take on LLD / possibly bussing me / now

like just claiming scum lmao, feels like scum wouldn't be so bold

also if we're gonna go by meta i think of the times ive claimed scum early game i was something like 75% likely to actually be scum i think (if there's anything more specifically AI it's probably related to the way i claim scum ??)

if we include this game in there tho it's 60%!

lmao you saying this makes me more inclined to townread it...

[innocentvillager]

lmao you saying this makes me more inclined to townread it...

that's the goal

[innocentvillager]

because she 100% feels more agenda-y and less grandstand-y this game.

i don't get the sense that scum!mastina is one of those elimination power-drivery agenda people

feel like if anything she'd be more grandstanding/postury as scum whenever she does decide to pop-in and post

i don't have scum!mastina meta though, this is purely based on seeing her posting style, i feel like it'd be very very difficult to keep up what's she's doing here as scum

[Cephrir]

a thing about mastina is that she is capable of producing this massive volume as scum

and also if you actually read her posts critically you'll realize they don't say anything (im legit amazed that people keep saying she has good reasons for things, lmao, you're just assuming there must have been a reason in there since there's so much text)

but she can't necessarily maintain the false conviction for days, so revisiting her later is the path

[OkaPoka]

the warper is yeah somebody who bends the gravity the of the game towards themselves and basically is asserting their superiority over everyone as both alignments and turns the game into follow me or be against me. like a polarizer idk its a term i made up because people like to criticize "warpers" by saying they warp the game but I don't think its necessarily a bad thing.

i mean yeah i was okay with saccing you to play the warper game, again you can't beat a scum!warper without holding them accountable and you following a good town!warper is okay, and if a bad town!warper fucks up, you still want to hold them accountable. sorry bud but at one point i was very okay with just saccing you. idk now, the well's been poisioned and LLD doesn't need to commit anymore /shrug its a different world and depends on what people to do

i feel like mastina is acting with a lot more direction this game like she's more active in getting her wants achieved, im paranoid of that because the mastina we just saw was more like trying to stop things from happening but not really super poised to achieve her own flips. this doesn't get the same town credit iv got for changes because this is a more subtle thing. is this scummy though? don't know never seen scum mastina. mathblade wants her dead but mathblade seems to always scumread mastina. maybe? i want her dead, but ehh that's not happening anyways

i don't know what to make of the LLD theory tbh, i don't even know what LLD wants to do and its really impossible to feel out a warper without seeing what they want to do and speculating blah blah, but if LLD is scum the game just opened up for her. oh god if she's scum id be so jealous she's in an incredibly fun position to play.

[Cephrir]

real talk im tired of talking about mastina and lld can we focus on something else and not just let the "warper" thing happen

i feel like we'll be in a worse position later if we let the whole game be about them and then they're elimed/nightkilled and we won't know up from down

[Xtoxm]

hercule pls
we didn't put all this work in saving you from scum for you to come out and townread said scum
lld is scum and we are eliminating her today
ffs

[innocentvillager]

actually tbh i don't know why im trying to offer points for town!mastina, some paranoia on that slot is probably good anyway as a sanity check down the line

go back to being paranoid about mastina, Oka

pedit: yeah that makes sense, imo she is very wordy and the literal opposite of concise. i still think she's very much worth engaging at least but to each their own

[Cephrir]

connection's happening between plenty of people on the lld-scum train and they seem to have synced without really expressing compelling reasons

i'd like to see someone other than mastina explain this wagon to me

[Cephrir]

what, i just contradicted myself?

yes, sorry, i want 2 opposite things at once

[OkaPoka]

real talk im tired of talking about mastina and lld can we focus on something else and not just let the "warper" thing happen

i feel like we'll be in a worse position later if we let the whole game be about them and then they're elimed/nightkilled and we won't know up from down

water's of the world will flow you know what i mean

by nature of gravity figuring those two out and thus everything around them should reveal more about the game

i mean last game if you could figure out what was happening to me and around me you could get a pretty good theory/solve going

i guess i just don't bother with trying to crack all my eggs d1, but that's not fun!

[hercule]

and also if you actually read her [mastina] posts critically you'll realize they don't say anything

that's not true at all though. like literally she pointed out a meta read about dann and he was like "yeah you're right but i'm still town" - she's a bit dramatic in her expression of her thought process but it's still clearly there. her read on dannflor is easy to watch develop. regarding my own slot I feel like she's done an extensive job of comparing post-by-post my playstyle in each game. her read on my slot is easy to watch develop and she has accepted some things she regarded as less towny than others by me, showing a fair review. regarding LLD she clearly did a deep dive of LLD's metagame and found posts from her other games to compare. her read on that slot is easy to watch develop. I feel like you're doing a woeful disservice to her here

the warper is yeah somebody who bends the gravity the of the game towards themselves and basically is asserting their superiority over everyone as both alignments and turns the game into follow me or be against me. like a polarizer idk its a term i made up because people like to criticize "warpers" by saying they warp the game but I don't think its necessarily a bad thing.

i mean yeah i was okay with saccing you to play the warper game, again you can't beat a scum!warper without holding them accountable and you following a good town!warper is okay, and if a bad town!warper fucks up, you still want to hold them accountable. sorry bud but at one point i was very okay with just saccing you. idk now, the well's been poisioned and LLD doesn't need to commit anymore /shrug its a different world and depends on what people to do

i feel like mastina is acting with a lot more direction this game like she's more active in getting her wants achieved, im paranoid of that because the mastina we just saw was more like trying to stop things from happening but not really super poised to achieve her own flips. this doesn't get the same town credit iv got for changes because this is a more subtle thing. is this scummy though? don't know never seen scum mastina. mathblade wants her dead but mathblade seems to always scumread mastina. maybe? i want her dead, but ehh that's not happening anyways

i don't know what to make of the LLD theory tbh, i don't even know what LLD wants to do and its really impossible to feel out a warper without seeing what they want to do and speculating blah blah, but if LLD is scum the game just opened up for her. oh god if she's scum id be so jealous she's in an incredibly fun position to play.

I don't really accept that your reasoning that "hercule is a good sacrificial lamb in all worlds because LLD wants to assert her presence in the game" holds any water

hercule pls
we didn't put all this work in saving you from scum for you to come out and townread said scum
lld is scum and we are eliminating her today
ffs

mmmm I appreciate your defense of me but I don't feel as confident as you to put potentially lethal votes atm

[OkaPoka]

getting around to playing around warpers basically requires you to get absolutely rolled by a scum one and see multiple games of various degrees of success

i don't know if epicmafia has any warpers, probably do, but longer deadlines amplify the mental toll and effect of warpers

danny boi can relate, well actually most people can its just danny boi was in the games i have learned from

[hercule]

getting around to playing around warpers basically requires you to get absolutely rolled by a scum one and see multiple games of various degrees of success

i don't know if epicmafia has any warpers, probably do, but longer deadlines amplify the mental toll and effect of warpers

danny boi can relate, well actually most people can its just danny boi was in the games i have learned from

I genuinely don't even know what you're saying here

[OkaPoka]

warm climates are nice

sorry herc ill try to better explain later i gtg now

[hercule]

like from my perspective, your viewpoint seems more likely to be from a scum agenda that a town agenda because:

- LLD can be town, and you just pin my flip on her
- LLD can be scum, and you just let her elim as many townies as she can before you bus her

pedit: ok

[Cephrir]

ok im done stealing ur schtick chicken man i feel unoriginal and lame

[hercule]

i like how people read my thought process post and only consider the part about themselves and then skim past it