TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[OkaPoka]

But the burden of evidence is.

the fact that we vote to lim d1 means burden evidence is not really on the accused lol

[Ythan]

But the burden of evidence is.

the fact that we vote to lim d1 means burden evidence is not really on the accused lol

Who said the burden of evidence is on the accused??

[OkaPoka]

But the burden of evidence is.

the fact that we vote to lim d1 means burden evidence is not really on the accused lol

Who said the burden of evidence is on the accused??

way to go me

sorry burden of evidence is not really on the accuser

[Ythan]

But the burden of evidence is.

the fact that we vote to lim d1 means burden evidence is not really on the accused lol

Who said the burden of evidence is on the accused??

way to go me

sorry burden of evidence is not really on the accuser

I intentionally said evidence and not proof. You need something or I don't even believe you're voting honestly yourself.

[Dannflor]

so ythan, why are you voting LLD

[mastina]

my point is that if he's scum there are literally ~14 town players who are trying to read him who were literally in last game.

Yes--and he is notably different in extremely obvious ways across multiple fronts. Across basically every front, in fact. There may be pressure to play differently from last game, but is there enough skill from hercule to, under such pressure, have a complete and total transformation as scum likely with minimal to no help? That hercule can cover bases that he didn't know?

Another way of thinking about it, IV:
Just because you think you know your scum meta, do you think as scum you're capable of completely hiding every aspect of your scumgame if you roll scum back to back with a high playerlist overlap? Do you think that you'd cover it all?

Or do you think that, you'd THINK you'd cover it all, but some scumtells you missed would remain?

Just because hercule knows he needs to be different, doesn't mean he knows HOW he needs to be different, is what I'm getting at. He knows he needs to play differently from last game if he's scum--but how does he know exactly HOW to be different? How would he know how to identify all his scumtells and not show them, and then actually not show them? (Just because you know of a scumtell of yours doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be able to fix it. And just because you think you know what your scumtells are as scum, doesn't mean you actually know what those scumtells are. You can both miss scumtells and even knowing scumtells be unable to fix them.)

So I posit that hercule's extreme differences here go beyond the ability of a scum player to knowingly change their play from game to game--the changes are too extreme and thorough. hercule might know some of his scumtells, but he won't know all of them, and he can't correct every scumtell of his that he knows. And yet this game there's none of the scumtells there were last game. I literally caught hercule for things that I never described last game; those things, without me explaining them, are absent from this game.

[Ythan]

so ythan, why are you voting LLD

Biggest wagon I agree with, and she hasn't been by since I hopped on. No sense hopping on Oka right now if that's what you mean.

[OkaPoka]

i mean the fact that people find success through townbucketing and poe rather than scumhunting means...

[Dannflor]

no that's not what I mean

I mean why do you agree with it?

[Ythan]

Then say that.

@Oka

[OkaPoka]

like ok ok ok im going to drop it this isn't even related to the game anymore

[mastina]

i mean the fact that people find success through townbucketing and poe rather than scumhunting means...

POE is a form of evidence, so it is still on the accuser: "everyone else is town for these reasons, therefore by poe, these four players are scum".

So: people finding success through townblocking and poe rather than scumhunting means that the burden of evidence is still on the accuser, because it is up to the town to explain why they have the poe they do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

mastina's trajectory on titus is:
--titus is scum for posting she's vla
--this one interaction could be s/s with LLD (who, notably, has not flipped yet)
--"80% confidence"
really, that's it, i just checked to make sure i wasn't crazy

Yes that would be due to me not having explained my scumread on Titus.
Titus isn't scum for posting she's V/LA; Titus isn't scum for the interaction with LLD (tho that contributes); Titus is indeed scum with 80+% confidence, but why she's scum is something I haven't explained yet.

I just could tell instantly.

Trash.

Not talking about the post, btw.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Honestly, I'm gonna take a few days to not hate this game and half the people in it and come back with hopefully a less angry mindset.

If I'm dead by then, I really don't care.

[OkaPoka]

it would be pretty cool if you voted a50 with me pretty please?

[Dannflor]

LLD I have some ideas about this game I'd be interested in you hearing out if you still have the energy

I'm gonna try to get the post up tonight but it might be tomorrow

anyway just check back in for it if you feel up to it

[Ythan]

no that's not what I mean

I mean why do you agree with it?

I don't buy all that bombastic noisy bullshit and I don't think she's hunting scum.

[Cephrir]

LLD I have some ideas about this game I'd be interested in you hearing out if you still have the energy

I'm gonna try to get the post up tonight but it might be tomorrow

anyway just check back in for it if you feel up to it

please be my rock dannflor

you might be the only one capable of leading this town out of madness, so i hope you're not scum

[Ythan]

Oh I didn't even see those two posts when I made that.

[OkaPoka]

and fuck it

VOTE: LLD

[OkaPoka]

I'll be doing an AMA now fire away

[Dannflor]

I don't like that vote

shit sorry that wasn't a question

[OkaPoka]

never am i going to like a vote this game but thank you bro

[Dannflor]

sneak peak preview of my theory for this game is that the hercule/LLD/mastina trifecta is actually all town and there are some certain slots that aren't exactly on the sidelines but are utilizing this dynamic that might be scum

don't worry oka I'm just voting you as a placeholder until I vote the super obv scum slots that no one but the great dannflor has been able to see yet

[Dannflor]

I vote the super obv scum slots

I meant case but that works too