Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3-2

The Mid-Atlantic Ridge is the boundary between several continental plates. It's also the largest mountain range on earth. The bulk of the ridge is well below sea level, but 9 peaks jut upward to become islands. Iceland is by far the largest of the Mid Atlantic Ridge islands, and the ridge itself runs west/east through the southern part of the country, which not coincidentally is the most volcanically active area of Iceland. The ridge is currently separating at a rate of about 2.5 cm per year.

Not Voting

(5): flow trap, Spartan117, Quick, floo, Prism

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: February 9, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-02-09 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[quiet]

To Spartan/Quiet who would you go for in the case of Prism/Floo

If I had to pick between the two of them it would be Prism but its not an easy choice.

Prism, I've locked you as town and I don't think I'm capable of folding on that position without some SERIOUS pressure or someone beating me over the head with my own stupidity until I see the light. As a result, I'm trying to determine between the three of {spartian, floo, flow trap}, who the safest partner to both is. You pushing floo yesterday is a somewhat good sign, as I'm taking that info as clean. That's where my head is at.

Why are you so locktown on their slot? why do you require pressure from others to change your reads? it just come across as sus when your reads cant organically evolve and you just lock a read on someone and park it there because it feels safe.

I don’t feel safe even remotely. I’ve given my prism read like, 5 times at this stage. If I’m getting played, it’s going to take a lot to unpocket me, I’m trying to be up front with that. For me, the solve is going to be in {flow, floo, spartian} 80%+ of the time. And there is absolutely garenteed to be one scum in that group of three.

So I’m not considering any vote outside of those three today. I’m not going to find Prism today. It’s not going to happen. If I’m infinitely pocketed, then there’s very little I can do about that today. I will absolutely be reconsidering tmmrw if the two of us are alive and we don’t miselim today. I read the +town concern and self consciousness and talking about the mod and trying to fix fights and a number of other related little details as too towny for me to vote for them.

So I’m stuck hunting in those three. Floo has been the most careful in his play. Flow chart is a chaos daemon and I’m trying to sort that out. You...feel towny, but also pushed Fred and are pushing me and protected floo and I’m trying to sort all that out.

[quiet]

Also my god I’m actually buying this from Flow Trap and I just

Hey floo, please tell me how you are town here, and give me a case on two people.

[quiet]

Am I just totally wrong on Prism??

But seriously if so, why does Prism kill Fairy there? I don't see that.

[quiet]

No, I'm holding the line on my Prism TR today. My PoE is {spartan, flow trap, floo}, where it probably goes vote floo > spartan/flow trap at this exact moment.

[flow trap]

mmmmmm

[quiet]

In contrast you're hard townreading floo, you/flow trap have me as a lukewarm townlean last I checked, and both of you are still alive

This.
Spartian, is there a chance that town!You is alive to continue defending floo here?

Though I wonder why they wouldn't shoot Prism in that case, who has by far the strongest floo SR, other than doctor WIFOM or because they think that shot makes it obvious. Still, seems worth discussing.

[Prism]

I am extremely upset at something irl. I don't even want to look at this game anymore tonight, I am sorry. I will try to be back tomorrow.

flow trap, I am glad to see you posted the first part of the wall and look forward to engaging with you more on it when I get back.

[Prism]

While I'm thinking about it, Spartan, you're experienced enough to meta. Review my scumgames. Pull a towngame that isn't Mini Normal 2181 where I hated the table. Extremely stark difference.

It's Elo, you can spare the hour.

[flow trap]

I'm taking a break to answer anything from, say, page 61-current

[flow trap]

That was worded badly any questions you have about pages 61-current

[flow trap]

or not

[Prism]

I thought that Day 2 was too much but actually tracking Spartan's progression here this is terrible.

Spartan, here's every explanation you've given for your floo townread.

floo

Floo's posts are few but tend to be emotive and full of thought, 124 pushing flow trap to get his read on safebet when he previously explained 2/3 of his reads is good to see very townie pushing for reads.
It's hard to find a lot about Floo but from what I have seen from reading everything through chronologically they seem to provide some straight forward towny input when they do contribute will keep an eye on this slot.

floo has actually been trying to solve the game and has natural reads rather than just town reading everyone like quiet)

Please don't vote floo, I really read him as town (I feel like you are trying to get away with a floo lynch without any of the responsibility of being the causing factor on a floolynch), in comparison to fredrick it shouldnt even be a question he has just lurked around prodged and contributed little to nothing,

floo has produced natural reads and is seriously my strongest town read.

Have mine and quiet's reads not "natural, straight forward towny input"? This is incredibly vague and hasn't changed at all since post 746.

You've constantly demanded to know why we're townreading various slots/going really far out of your way to discredit our reads at every turn but have failed to seriously evaluate this slot or explain this read in the slightest the entire game.

[Prism]

Like, if you're going to go to bat this hard for floo, you need to actually explain why this slot is town. You're not holding yourself to nearly the same standards as you are others.

[Prism]

I've got to run for ~2 hours, but flow trap's wall is *~fine~*. The analysis isn't bad, I concur with most of it (eg. I liked floo's start, I didn't like a lot of safebet's weird positioning-his "for reactions" vote literally lasted like 5 minutes and I think net a single post iirc) but I'm waiting for the conclusions.

Also my god I’m actually buying this from Flow Trap and I just

What was flow trap even selling in that wall to begin with/what were buying, and what did it have to do with me that the paranoia was the followup?

Unclear about your progression here, please be more specific with your concerns and why. It's okay to be emotive and give reactions but just going "Am I just pocketed on Prism???" repeatedly without doing a deeper explanation makes it feel performative.

[Prism]

Like I had Spartan/floo as unlikely for the hard defense+Spartan baiting a vote on me from floo but the latter a completely arbitrary scum interaction, or setting the stage for both to vote me later, over galaxy brain wagon fish might be the answer?

Either way, Spartan, high time for you to justify that read.

[flow trap]

Part 2

Spoiler:

Pages 11-20
The first notable thing on page 11 is Spartan saying that they don’t think Flow+Salsafairy is TvT, I know this gets called out by someone later but I forget who and when, so I’ll talk about it when I get to it. Salsafairy has

that

post…

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

Which is very unusual and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Then I make a mistake; I said I was putting pressure on Enchant which they immediately call me out on, so I ended up covering my mistake with:

VOTE: Enchant

Just putting some heat here

Thanks, it's cold here.


Really, if you annonce "THIS VOTE IS FOR PRESSURE" then i know this vote is for pressure and theorically give you nothing, so maybe you give something?

I didn't say it was for pressure

At least not for you

… and since it was a bluff I couldn’t really answer any questions about it (i.e. that Spartan asked me) so sorry for being evasive here. The pair analysis was genuine (and the first one was trash), but I am just learning how to do it, I’ve only done it in 2 or 3 of my 33-36 previous games. I spend quite a while covering my bluff, which unfortunately eats up a page or 2. In the middle of that Prism calls me out again on something small, which I think is towny, (not that I expect them to survive tonight); I explain it later. Prism TR’s Zoomer, I will say more on that later if I feel this is important (Update from future Flow, line of thought has been proven false by round 3 postings). This is where Spartan gets called out by Prism about the Flow+Salsafairy thing:

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

Other than that my main scum reads are EZ who I feel is being disingenuous in relation to that early waggon and has felt fake in some of their posts, and Fredrick who has been lurking and still yet to provide any meaningful content, could be typical scum trying to stay under the radar while still seeming active.

Can you be more specific as to what makes this feel like not town v. town to you? I don't like flow individually but that conversation as a whole seems plausibly TvT to me. It also looks like you don't have a specific one in mind, as neither are your top scumreads.

Then Spartan basically says they TR salsa & SR me, so it may be an attempt to shoot salsa when I flip town. All the while Salsafairy has hijinks with mostly me, but also a few others. Spartan calls me out for not answering SP’s question, but honestly, it’s niche. Floo reinforces da thing and Quietbet & Zoomer go bath & fork. I go backstage here and accidentally take everyone on a tour there. Salsafairy makes a good point about self-image then states a totally genuine non-suspicious reaction here:

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

At this point, I’m mildly TSTBSing Salsafairy, and then some FTvSF action which I don’t think I can read without bias. I call out Salsafiary’s scummy PTV tone, which was genuine, with no strings attached. Then they proceed to make a well-crafted argument to counter it..
Just kidding

I don't like this playing the victim tone you have

Prism slaps me in the face, which I now appreciate; however I wasn’t being entirely dismissive, nor was I saying things like:

I still stand by the fact that town is more defensive, or a least I am as town. Floo -> Annoyed Sarcasm -> Towny, same as previously mentioned (also reinforcing opinion). (Can’t include what I was going to say here). Quietbet basically TRs everyone that has been contributing the most, meh on that. Prism is generally helping on page 20 along with Floo “tinfoiling” (I put that in quotes because it’s a stretch). I make a semi-joke (Part-Wolf here. It was not a joke post. I was suggesting the possibility of a future plan.) post about FaC having 7 days which Prism attacks. Fine. Prism also questions FaC & Quietbet (still helpful) and that sums up my feeling on 11-20.

[Prism]

Worked my way through a lot of the quiet ISO+read a sample town game in 2045.

Quiet's reads/reasoning are almost off the cuff analysis, sometimes corrected a few minutes later, sometimes left. This matches the meta in 2045, and as a bonus 2045 has him struggling in a similar way with finding it easier to give townreads than scumreads. Questioning/slightly unconfident style definitely lines up. Doesn't mean he's town but it means yes, his town game looks like this.

This style is plausible to fake as town. The candidate partner here would be....floo, shocker. This is mostly because quiet spent most of yesterday claiming to find my point compelling only to keep dodging actually voting there. If floo is town I doubt quiet is scum in any world, and flow trap/Spartan seems unlikely given how frustrated Spartan has repeatedly gotten. A floo vote flipping town would be absolutely disastrous and is much better to get immediately than a Frederick vote. Quiet's given room to both Enchant and to the Salsabil slot at times where it was really more advantageous to just shut up and let it all happen.

My nerves are still a bit wracked and it's hard to seriously work through more atm but the strongest points I've seen outside of my own are that quiet has too many townreads.

Why are people scumreading this slot beyond that? Am I missing something here?

[Prism]

Next project is flow trap, after that will be revisiting floo.

[Prism]

Illwei: Towny town that has ever towned. I don't buy scumIllwei townSlip play. Nope, no, not buying it. If you got me, you got me.

BBmola: Town/selfsorting. I really enjoyed BB's play, even if it wasn't exactly.. conventional. It was for sure interesting and fun. Said a lot with very few words, lots of reaction tests, the weird claim, the fuck it voting style, the plan to discover peta's role, etc. I think that if not town, gets sorted p easy tmmrw.

Peta: Null/look for all their contact. Never got anything but engaged town vibes, but from background reading/the respect of other players in thread, I put this well within their scum range. Really enjoyed playing w/ them.

Reads from town quiet in 2045 that on the surface have some interesting parallels to this game.

[Prism]

Really wish I could get my answers from safebet but I feel like they don't matter that much, idk, especially when I never got to fully understand how safebet plays compared to the rest of the game

[Spartan117]

I haven't had the time to go through this today been very busy, will put aside some time tomorrow to go through whats happened, and properly review flow traps posts and answer prisms questions to me.

[quiet]

Wrote up a long post and phone died. Sigh. Take 2.
I am living in a world where a random vote in {floo, flow trap, spartan} hits 66% of the time. As I've previously stated, I will not be considering voting outside of these three today.
So I'm going to provide cases on all three, and probably ask a few questions of each. I'll do a quick summery of where I'm at now, which is pre doing deep dives, but post doing some thinking on the slots.

@Spartan, accepting a world where both you and floo are town means accepting a world where Prism or I am not. I can't accept that today. If you are 100% positive ride or die that floo is not the vote, then you'd better have an airtight case on flow trap, because I am not going to be finding a vote for Prism today. I'd consider reconsidering the read tmmrw, but frankly, I really think everyone else should take a look at Prism's play this game, especially surrounding their interactions with the mod, frustration with pushing town, addressing flow trap and salsa beef, addressing other conflicts, calling me out for trying to buddy them by flirting with their towngame, etc, etc, and try to convince me that all of that, every bit of it, is scum theater. Behind the scenes, I've reviewed some of their unlinked meta, not the stuff that Prism provided, even the game they explicitly said was not super indicitive of how they play as they had personality classes with the playerlist, and I am fully on board. I tried today to give someone, ANYONE, the chance to step forward with a Prism SR, did some hemming and hawing and "oh god am I pocketed? oh my god" kind of posts, and no one bit. No one is willing to SR Prism. I was hoping someone would, but frankly, I think the game is now operating on the assumption that Prism is town for today. This means I have to consider either you or floo scum, one or the other. So besides them making good points (their strongest points this game have been on Salsa and on Fredrick, both of whom flipped town), I have concerns there.

I find myself feeling actually bad and guilty out of game when I SR you. Something about the way you post feels like indignant and slighted town, and you continuously make me question why I'm SRing you, when the reality is we have been on the oposite side of our reads for most of the game, the test that was voting Fred with you flipped negative, and I strongly, strongly TR Prism. The only other scumcase I have on you is not liking the way you have done this:

Why are you not willing to vote Fredrick? are you protecting him or something? It's very odd to me how you would rather vote Floo than vote Fredrick, I feel like while Floo hasnt posted the quantity of the rest their posts have had a lot of content and reads and have overall provided towards the town, while fredrick has yet in my eyes to provide a meaningful post, like this post of yours just gives me sus vibes that you can see your scum partner is struggling and youre trying to help guide him.

re: 1319 I guess I can see why you scumread quiet but this seems to be panic accusatory? Like that went a long way from grandstanding about how Frederick isn't town at all to voting quiet for either defending a scumbuddy or trying to get it voted in 5 way.

Not panic accusatory at all, are you scared your scum buddy has a couple votes on them? I don't know the solution to this puzzle I am trying to view all possible scenarios that make sense to me, a Prism/(Sal/Fairy) is also included in that in my view. floo is a stronger town read for me atm and how you are going at them defending a potential Sal teamate (or using the sal V floo situation) looks a bit opportunistic, I don't see a floo/Prism team at all, my concern is on the possibility it is TvT and we have an imposter team of two from Quiet/Fredrick/FlowTrap/Fairy hmm I feel like I'm the opposite of Quiet where I'm sussing everyone where he town reads everyone.

You tend to immediately jump to "oh, are you defending your scumbuddy here?" whenever someone doubts a SR of yours, but want us not to do the same of the floo/Fred situation of yesterday. I didn't want to vote Fred yesterday, especially not early in the day, because LHF slots are easy, blameless miselims. I can't even really hold you accountable for it today. However, in the posts right around here, you give me the same kind of reason why I struggle/feel guilty SRing you: you completely seem like you are genuinely interacting with and trying to solve the game. Problem is, looking at Flow Chart's wall posts, or even Floo's thoughtful, careful, infrequent posts, you can see the same thing.

Your SR of me isn't even bad. I'm too agreeable, I TR everyone where you SR everyone, TRing everyone is a scummy thing because scum struggle to create good SRs. But new town struggles with it too. Especially in a game with such little info, which was exactly what we had yesterday. My one "mmmm maybe this is strange" feeling on Salsa got blown up when floo gave a really poor followup post on the slot that I read as scummy, taking my read on their emotional reactions and turning it into something I couldn't believe any further, especially in the context of their replacement. This is something that I and Prism both discussed during day2. That's where my floo SR came from, that they jumped into the thread, took something of mine (so I would look bad if it was wrong and so their potential wagon would already have a supporter), made a careful, logical point about it, started a fight, and most especially cited a game saying "look they did all these things way differerent and they were Town in this game, must be scum" when looking into the game, they were playing EXACTLY the same in that towngame as they were in this one, but otherwise stayed out of the thread. Finally, my strong TR on Prism makes the floo SR read more likely, as I believe they are town and they sus floo. I was willing to give them an additional chance given how strong your TR was, and because I thought leaving it till tmmrw would help me sort you; Fred vs. you also seemed plausible. That's how I ended up off floo yesterday. I wasn't as convinced then as I was now that their actions were scummy, but now, I'm decently convinced.

I want to hear your side of that story, and you to help me understand what Floo has done this game besides carefully step in, give good, clean points, then fade back away. From where I'm standing, both you and floo cannot be town. If there is some other world, besides me being scum, you want to push forward, let me know.

[quiet]

@Flow trap, I have a little less to say to you at the moment. First off, I don't think you need to continue going post by post through the thread, especially over day1, and explain your reads at every point. It's NAI to me. I recognize that you were not being chaotic for the sake of being chaotic, and I am taking on face value what you are saying about what your state of mind was at every given point in the game. I'm less interested in your progression there than I am on your positioning and the positioning of others in the thread on day2 and day3, as that feels like there's a lot more value and weight.

You join {spartian, floo, yourself} in my PoE by nature of today's infinite TR of Prism. I'd also like you to comment on if you think Prism is town or not, or at least, town enough that you wouldn't consider voting them today. Because of the way you have played, it's easy enough for me to imagine you with any combination of those two. I plan to do a full iso and re-read on your slot (though you have helpfully been doing some of that for me by virtue of re-reading your wall posts! ty!), but because you have flipped around quite a bit, because you bluff reads and bluff responses sometimes, I feel like you could easily defend most positions and cover for yourself as scum. You aren't particularly suspicions to me, other than our dear departed Fairy's death and something something framed something something, but there's nothing screaming town other than my bias that someone playing as relaxed, chaotic, and fun as you tends to be town more often than scum, and that those partner tables are hard excessive work, and doing it once was probably sufficient if it was a play; I've always thought you had reads, you've always been giving them, it's just hard for me to sort you out of the PoE.

So, given that in my universe if you are town, {spartian and floo} are nearly always scum, do you think that is viable? do you have a preference between the two? Is there anything you need to sort me, as you've been suspicious of me today a bit, and previously too.

[quiet]

@floo, I've got the least for you.

I would really like to hear a towncase for yourself, frankly, a review of your play this game, of your posted suspicions, and how they've panned out. Additionally, I would like a scumcase/or just read, whatever, on both Spartian and Flow Trap in the same style as the previous ones you have given. Actually, I'll take anything from you.

Some of my SRs on your play are buried in my post to Spartian, which kinda says something, that I'm expecting more of a dialoge about your slot with spartian than I do with you yourself. I think you've been an asset to the game, a fun player to play with, but if you are town here, I am really, really going to need you to step up for the rest of ELO, because if I lose this game because of 3 separate LHFish players, I'm gonna be fairly frustrated, especially given how high effort so many other people have played this game. My biggest concerns are that from what I recall, and I'll confirm this then post more details later, your two pushes have been vs. Fredrick and vs. Salsa, and as Prism pointed out in a compelling way, the Salsa one felt like you were trying to prove scummyness vs. trying to read them. It would be very challenging for me to differenciate your play as is from scum play. Please help me do so, and again, the best way is by providing good reads on {flow trap, spartian}. If you end up thinking they're not both scummy, that's fine, I'm the only one with the info on me and the strong tr on Prism at the moment to isolate to those three, but reading those would help.