Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[Dunnstral]

this is going to sound fucking terrible but as i was reading yesterday, i thought the way imperium is plying they're going to get vengekilled for sure if they're town, so i decided to gambit and bullshit a scumread on them because if scum buy that i'm hardtunneling them maybe they don't get venged, i figured they wouldn't get shot by rlotus ever but just to be safe i was like "shoot norfolk first every time", that's why i was so insistent on that order that they got on my case hardcore about, it was because i didn't actually want them shot. they came back at me so hard i actually panicked a little and talked myself into think they were scum for a bit but at some point i realized i was being a fucking idiot and tammy is obvtown, but i might as well keep it up for the sake of the gambit (and, honestly, this is terrible to admit but i felt like if i backed down there i might actually get shot). you can see how eventually i stopped attacking them at all and was basically only making arguments in self-defense and even trying to disengage entirely, because i was bluffing my read the whole time but didn't want to keep forcing arguments i didn't actually believe in. (i did get legit pissed at the BoP thing though, sorry, but that felt like it was entirely in relation to my read on them and nothing else). the whole idea was the make sure they don't get venged for the sake of an easy game and that's why i pushed them, i know it's stupid but that was my big brain plan

And how did you know the godfather was about to die?

[ScrewTheTells]

anyway if you want real scum look at how STT was trying to set up a dichotomy between imperium/cakez and then later shifted it to imperium/me, that shit is skeevy as fuck

I thought I already explained it the first time, it's not a dichotomy, I thought Imperium was scummy for other reasons, what I meant was that if Norfolk actually flipped town then that's reason to consider I was wrong about Imperium since it's more likely that Cakez was genuinely pushing for a misfire. And then the thing with you was that I thought you were pretty town so Imperium's argument seemed to suddenly come from nowhere. Now if you were scum I'd say that looks great for Imperium, but if you're town then that would be the last nail on the coffin and I'd consider Imperium confirmed scum at that point. It's not like I thought for some reason one of you had to be scum. I already thought Imperium was scummy and this is just relevant to that judgement.

[Imperium]

Imperium, where is your definitive argument on why peta is scum? I just kinda expected that you would have finished that write-up while we waited for Day 3. I mean if it's still not presentable now I don't know why you expected to write it before ending Day 2.

Shout out to old jewels and old rules. New blacks with new stacks.

I already been the king. Retro act, I'm just bringing it back like Jordan Packs.

New money,

THEY LOOKING DOWN ON ME

. Blue bloods,

THEY TRYING TO CLOWN ON ME

.

You can turn up your nose high society. But you can never turn down the homie.


Remember that, STT. Just because we are different doesn't mean that I am inferior to you. This comfort that you're feeling won't last forever.

[unwnd]

I will be intensely annoyed if I get the gun, so much that I'll hipfire

Last time I talk about that however, just note if that is your decision then expect suboptimal hipfire into my null pool

[Imperium]

I'd consider Imperium confirmed scum at that point. It's not like I thought for some reason one of you had to be scum.

I see what's happening here! You're face to face with greatness and it's strange. You don't even know how you feel - it's adorable! Well, it's nice to see that newbies never change. Open your eyes, let's begin - yes it's really me, it's Nacho, breathe it in. I know it's a lot, the confidence, the

reading comprehension

, when you're staring at some demigods.

What can I say except you're welcome?

[petapan]

this is going to sound fucking terrible but as i was reading yesterday, i thought the way imperium is plying they're going to get vengekilled for sure if they're town, so i decided to gambit and bullshit a scumread on them because if scum buy that i'm hardtunneling them maybe they don't get venged, i figured they wouldn't get shot by rlotus ever but just to be safe i was like "shoot norfolk first every time", that's why i was so insistent on that order that they got on my case hardcore about, it was because i didn't actually want them shot. they came back at me so hard i actually panicked a little and talked myself into think they were scum for a bit but at some point i realized i was being a fucking idiot and tammy is obvtown, but i might as well keep it up for the sake of the gambit (and, honestly, this is terrible to admit but i felt like if i backed down there i might actually get shot). you can see how eventually i stopped attacking them at all and was basically only making arguments in self-defense and even trying to disengage entirely, because i was bluffing my read the whole time but didn't want to keep forcing arguments i didn't actually believe in. (i did get legit pissed at the BoP thing though, sorry, but that felt like it was entirely in relation to my read on them and nothing else). the whole idea was the make sure they don't get venged for the sake of an easy game and that's why i pushed them, i know it's stupid but that was my big brain plan

And how did you know the godfather was about to die?

i didn't, obviously?

[unwnd]

I think this is the 2nd time you've mentioned the thing about "even if petapan is scum, your play is bad because it makes him uncooperative". How does this work? I don't understand because you can never trust scum to cooperate with you anyway, it's not like if we are nice to them they give us more chances to win. I don't understand this reasoning from a town perspective.

Well for Peta's sake I am not willing to believe he is dead-to-rights scum, therefore your response to me takes out the exclusivity of the read. It's not that I think Tammycho should be nicer to peta, rather I think that scum get tilted by the same effect as town, and a tilted scum either just dies on his laurels or he goes even more aggro and starts getting trivial. I want to give peta the chance to prove he is not scum, because I do not believe that Tammycho's argument is enough right now.

[Dunnstral]

this is going to sound fucking terrible but as i was reading yesterday, i thought the way imperium is plying they're going to get vengekilled for sure if they're town, so i decided to gambit and bullshit a scumread on them because if scum buy that i'm hardtunneling them maybe they don't get venged, i figured they wouldn't get shot by rlotus ever but just to be safe i was like "shoot norfolk first every time", that's why i was so insistent on that order that they got on my case hardcore about, it was because i didn't actually want them shot. they came back at me so hard i actually panicked a little and talked myself into think they were scum for a bit but at some point i realized i was being a fucking idiot and tammy is obvtown, but i might as well keep it up for the sake of the gambit (and, honestly, this is terrible to admit but i felt like if i backed down there i might actually get shot). you can see how eventually i stopped attacking them at all and was basically only making arguments in self-defense and even trying to disengage entirely, because i was bluffing my read the whole time but didn't want to keep forcing arguments i didn't actually believe in. (i did get legit pissed at the BoP thing though, sorry, but that felt like it was entirely in relation to my read on them and nothing else). the whole idea was the make sure they don't get venged for the sake of an easy game and that's why i pushed them, i know it's stupid but that was my big brain plan

And how did you know the godfather was about to die?

i didn't, obviously?

Then how are you playing around imperium getting vengekilled and providing cover or whatever you're claiming right now?

[Dunnstral]

I will be intensely annoyed if I get the gun, so much that I'll hipfire

Last time I talk about that however, just note if that is your decision then expect suboptimal hipfire into my null pool

This isn't like you

So if you're scum, this is subtle manipulation to try to avoid being shot

If you're town: Stop and think. What shot opens the gamestate? What shot is likely to be scum? There's no reason for you to be tilted and shoot wildly.

[Imperium]

Although in all seriousness:

Mush, if I had the gun, I'd be hip firing NM/Norfolk ---> peta, let people react for 24 hours to see if Wheme had a super townie meltdown, then shoot him.

I'm extremely confident that Cakez is town. I'm decently confident that STT and unwnd are town. I would be surprised if Duunstral is scum.

Who do you want me to talk about?

[unwnd]

Peta could be scum and this could be their huge crowning moment

I'd be happy for them, and I obviously love redflips. However, just like they want to be selfish with their read, I want to be selfish in having a better chance of reading him. We're probably not going to meet compromise and that's fine

[unwnd]

I will be intensely annoyed if I get the gun, so much that I'll hipfire

Last time I talk about that however, just note if that is your decision then expect suboptimal hipfire into my null pool

This isn't like you

So if you're scum, this is subtle manipulation to try to avoid being shot

If you're town: Stop and think. What shot opens the gamestate? What shot is likely to be scum? There's no reason for you to be tilted and shoot wildly.

What isn't like me? Hello? There's a fucking gun in play. I don't have to sit and toil with convincing X amount of people to vote the person I want, I only have to convince myself or the gunbearer. What is even the point with posturing with me

[SirCakez]

Well I was wrong

Unwnd why did your read on me change to null?

Also maybe I'm biased but I think the way some people were pushing Duchess felt unnatural/TMI, especially early on before rtlotus got the gun, I just don't think they were that easy to pick out and then they flipped godfather

I didn't know wheme has pushed duchess, that was interested from mush, I thought unwnd was one of the first

Who are these people?

I don't know... do you have thoughts?

I was thinkign unwnd from early

Uhhhh I was expecting you to have names given that you brought up the point
Wheme can go in here. He always had Duchess in his SRs but frequently pushed elsewhere

[SirCakez]

I will be intensely annoyed if I get the gun, so much that I'll hipfire

Last time I talk about that however, just note if that is your decision then expect suboptimal hipfire into my null pool

This isn't like you

So if you're scum, this is subtle manipulation to try to avoid being shot

If you're town: Stop and think. What shot opens the gamestate? What shot is likely to be scum? There's no reason for you to be tilted and shoot wildly.

I agree that Unwnd post is not good

[unwnd]

Kiss my ass both of you

[SirCakez]

this is going to sound fucking terrible but as i was reading yesterday, i thought the way imperium is plying they're going to get vengekilled for sure if they're town, so i decided to gambit and bullshit a scumread on them because if scum buy that i'm hardtunneling them maybe they don't get venged, i figured they wouldn't get shot by rlotus ever but just to be safe i was like "shoot norfolk first every time", that's why i was so insistent on that order that they got on my case hardcore about, it was because i didn't actually want them shot. they came back at me so hard i actually panicked a little and talked myself into think they were scum for a bit but at some point i realized i was being a fucking idiot and tammy is obvtown, but i might as well keep it up for the sake of the gambit (and, honestly, this is terrible to admit but i felt like if i backed down there i might actually get shot). you can see how eventually i stopped attacking them at all and was basically only making arguments in self-defense and even trying to disengage entirely, because i was bluffing my read the whole time but didn't want to keep forcing arguments i didn't actually believe in. (i did get legit pissed at the BoP thing though, sorry, but that felt like it was entirely in relation to my read on them and nothing else). the whole idea was the make sure they don't get venged for the sake of an easy game and that's why i pushed them, i know it's stupid but that was my big brain plan

You're right this does sound terrible

[Dunnstral]

I will be intensely annoyed if I get the gun, so much that I'll hipfire

Last time I talk about that however, just note if that is your decision then expect suboptimal hipfire into my null pool

This isn't like you

So if you're scum, this is subtle manipulation to try to avoid being shot

If you're town: Stop and think. What shot opens the gamestate? What shot is likely to be scum? There's no reason for you to be tilted and shoot wildly.

What isn't like me? Hello? There's a fucking gun in play. I don't have to sit and toil with convincing X amount of people to vote the person I want, I only have to convince myself or the gunbearer. What is even the point with posturing with me

Threatening to shoot sub-optimally if you get shot is what I'm referring to.

If you shoot your own scumreads, that's fine, but self-sabotaging because you got shot at doesn't sound like something you would do, or should do if you're town

[unwnd]

How is it sabotage? I want to shoot in a null read because PoE matters more in this setup. I also have the agency to do so

I don't care that you scumread me, I just think your approach towards me is annoying

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Is it foolish to say that petapan seems like /exactly/ the sort of person to do something pulsating-universe-brain like that? I mean.... Town /or/ scum, just strikes me like the sort of person to get lost down rabbit holes that way.

This isn't criticism, by the way. I do the same thing, and it works out more often than it fails catastrophically -- but see Death Curse and my big-brained Rube Goldberg shit. No, I won't necessarily be pulling something that complex and fragile this go around. Blatantly manipulative, though, oh you betcha. It's practically my signature.

I have thoughts, many thoughts. I am going to separate them into special posts for their targets, so that everyone understands who I am speaking to about what. I wouldn't want anyone answering questions meant for other people.

[Imperium]

Mush, can I get a quick response to my #1559 and I'll start working on stuff from there?

[Dunnstral]

How is it sabotage? I want to shoot in a null read because PoE matters more in this setup. I also have the agency to do so

I don't care that you scumread me, I just think your approach towards me is annoying

I'm actually trying to help you if you're town right now, I think that this somehow turning into an argument/clashing might be indicative of alignment

[unwnd]

You're not helping me, you're holding me accountable to what I would do/wouldn't despite me telling you it's hogwash

I'm not a well-oiled machine that only does what you want it to do

[unwnd]

You know what I'd do here if I was scum Dunn? I'd play more to your liking. You wouldn't be having this argument with me because I wouldn't let it happen. I'd try to present my best traits because I am a manipulative fuck and my only goal is to be townread.

[Imperium]

Unwnd/Duunstral interaction is looking good for both sides - this is people who care about the game and are trying to get a solve. Contrast with peta/Wheme who have been around but are just concerned with defending themselves.

[Dunnstral]

I think you're misunderstanding something here

Are you saying you'd shoot your null reads instead of your scum reads if you got shot at?