TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Cephrir]

I mean, mastina is the one pushing LLD the most (followed by DGB) and she has Titus as her second strongest SR (at least that was the case when I posted that). Now what am I missing?

I wasn't saying "no one believes Titus is LLD's scumpartner," but rather "there is no compelling case for Titus being LLD's scumpartner"

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'm going to need an explanation for these.

Dann and hopkirk suddenly casing me as scum is very conveniently timed.

Dann asserting that I am on the sidelines for lld/hercule is incorrect.

Again, saying I'm fencesitty is wrong

:shrug:

some parts of that case felt good
some of them i'll grant might not be
i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

[Dunnstral]

Also I haven't really deflected away from lld because I'm not 100% that she's town over scum trying to pocket me

But me asking for someone to explain why lld is being pushed is a big deal because there is very little reason why lld is being pushed

That's not the case for hercule, which could be explained, and can still go either way

LLD can go either way but there's no explanation for why she's scum here, and me asking for explanations is seen as defending her

[Dunnstral]

i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

Are you going to take their word for it or look for yourself?

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

[Dunnstral]

Note that me asking someone else to explain something is not a read

[Dunnstral]

some parts of that case felt good

Which parts?

[Dunnstral]

++scum
Dunn has played plenty of games with me. he's calling me scum based on specifically one of many thoughts in a catchup. he should know that that's me putting my thought process and what i'm considering on paper and he's acting like i'm 100% on reads based on one specifically chosen comment from my catchup. that's taking a specific chosen point and overly focusing on it when it's not representative of the whole, and he should know that

I'm not calling you scum, I said you lean towards scum because some of your thoughts feel fabricated

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to know, or why me saying you're scummy is scummy for me.

[Dunnstral]

dann/ceph were both pushing hercule
then ceph jumped on A50s shitpush of me and Dann joined in with a naked vote that he later explained buried in an iso as basically 'i don't have as many townvibes as i want' which doesn't gel with the timing of the vote being with the A50/me conflict that he didn't comment on specifically
now they're both pushing Dunn with cases that came as basically the same time

both of their votes/pushes on me were the worst ones. oka/agar are in a similar state of their agreement with those pushes being bad

this feels like trying to save a partner

VOTE: LLD

This is a good post, but you lose me when you go to voting lld

Is lld the one doing something scummy here? no, and there's no reason to think they're specifically protecting lld other than her being wagoned right now (which there's also no explanation for)

Wouldn't it make more sense for you to directly vote the people who are doing something scummy? Scum can act scummy around town too

[Cephrir]

i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

Are you going to take their word for it or look for yourself?

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

i'm not very good at meta and auro is a more analytical type of player which might be a good approach to this game in particular given that my approach is not really working so far, so i was planning to take their word for it yes

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'm going to need an explanation for these.

Dann and hopkirk suddenly casing me as scum is very conveniently timed.

Dann asserting that I am on the sidelines for lld/hercule is incorrect.

Again, saying I'm fencesitty is wrong

:shrug:

some parts of that case felt good
some of them i'll grant might not be
i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

yeah this is my sentiment basically

[Cephrir]

i liked the points about 1055 and 1572

i don't really care whether or not you've been waffling

[innocentvillager]

i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

Are you going to take their word for it or look for yourself?

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

i'm not very good at meta and auro is a more analytical type of player which might be a good approach to this game in particular given that my approach is not really working so far, so i was planning to take their word for it yes

oh look this too

but i will take a look at some point if this wagon gets more serious, i just don't expect to be very good at it either

[Dunnstral]

I'm not asking you to use meta

I'm asking you to look at my posts and answer this:

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

Meta would be if I'm asking you to compare it to my scum/town game. I'm not doing that. You can do this exercise by reading only t his game.

[Dunnstral]

i liked the points about 1055 and 1572

i don't really care whether or not you've been waffling

I wasn't talking about waffling, I was talking about whether I was being insightful/explaining my reads; stop deflecting.

If you don't want to do this, just say you're too lazy to, that's a valid answer. What do you dislike about my posts 1055 and 1572?

[Dunnstral]

i'll confess to finding the meta argument interesting

Are you going to take their word for it or look for yourself?

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

i'm not very good at meta and auro is a more analytical type of player which might be a good approach to this game in particular given that my approach is not really working so far, so i was planning to take their word for it yes

oh look this too

but i will take a look at some point if this wagon gets more serious, i just don't expect to be very good at it either

Cephrir is demonstrably wrong at this point so pointing to him and saying "yeah this too" isn't helpful

[Cephrir]

I'm not asking you to use meta

I'm asking you to look at my posts and answer this:

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

Meta would be if I'm asking you to compare it to my scum/town game. I'm not doing that. You can do this exercise by reading only t his game.

i'll do this later

[Cephrir]

i liked the points about 1055 and 1572

i don't really care whether or not you've been waffling

I wasn't talking about waffling, I was talking about whether I was being insightful/explaining my reads; stop deflecting.

If you don't want to do this, just say you're too lazy to, that's a valid answer. What do you dislike about my posts 1055 and 1572?

???

i was giving an example of part of the case that i didn't really care about, and you spent some time defending yourself from the accusation that you were waffling, so i'm noting that that means nothing to me since i don't think waffling is necessarily a scum trait

i am agreeing with what xtoxm said about your posts 1055 and 1572

[Cephrir]

i mean i guess you're not disputing xtoxm is town so your point is that he can't read i guess?

sure i should probably check but that seems extreme

[Dunnstral]

i mean i guess you're not disputing xtoxm is town so your point is that he can't read i guess?

sure i should probably check but that seems extreme

I didn't exactly say that, but I do think they're town and they're wrong

I'm not trying to make 'a point' about xtoxm right now, I'm trying to understand some of the people who voted without really taking it in

[Dunnstral]

shit vote on hercule. he said he's happy for this to go all the way to an eliminate. but he can see it going either way.
yet, for someone expressing such a nonchalant and uncaring attitude, he sure is hard opposed to applying the same logic to another player many of us scumread.

You agree with this?

I explained how lld is different. There are no

reasons

for her to be scum that was given. Me acknowledging that she can scum is me saying 'yeah, she's a pretty good player and I can't fully trust her right now with no flips'. For Hercule, there is a case laid out and points made about how he could be playing to a scum agenda. It's not the same thing.

[Cephrir]

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

[Cephrir]

shit vote on hercule. he said he's happy for this to go all the way to an eliminate. but he can see it going either way.
yet, for someone expressing such a nonchalant and uncaring attitude, he sure is hard opposed to applying the same logic to another player many of us scumread.

You agree with this?

I explained how lld is different. There are no

reasons

for her to be scum that was given. Me acknowledging that she can scum is me saying 'yeah, she's a pretty good player and I can't fully trust her right now with no flips'. For Hercule, there is a case laid out and points made about how he could be playing to a scum agenda. It's not the same thing.

it was odd to place a vote on that pretty dangerous wagon if you felt lukewarm about it

[Almost50]

Ceph, wagoning LLD has been like pulling teeth, her buddies are NOT bus'ing. We townies will have to do it without scum's help.

This probably the best argument for Scum!LLD I have seen so far. It's not a

perfect

argument (because sometimes Scum try to avoid the prevailing wagon to saw confusion when the eliminated flips Town. Some of us will want to eliminate ON the wagon and some off it, but the popular argument would always be "Scum

must

gave been on it", so 0-1 Scum on a Town flip on D1 increases the Scum win probability by like 50%). However, I can guarantee Scum are reluctant to bus LLD is she is on the red side.

[Dunnstral]

for someone who has taken a hard stance of being opposed to the lld wagon, why has it taken so long to ask this question?

I don't have a hard stance of being opposed to the lld wagon.

I am explicitly not defending her, I'm

asking a question to try to understand what is going on

. The question is

still unanswered

and people are shading me for asking it

[Dunnstral]

shit vote on hercule. he said he's happy for this to go all the way to an eliminate. but he can see it going either way.
yet, for someone expressing such a nonchalant and uncaring attitude, he sure is hard opposed to applying the same logic to another player many of us scumread.

You agree with this?

I explained how lld is different. There are no

reasons

for her to be scum that was given. Me acknowledging that she can scum is me saying 'yeah, she's a pretty good player and I can't fully trust her right now with no flips'. For Hercule, there is a case laid out and points made about how he could be playing to a scum agenda. It's not the same thing.

it was odd to place a vote on that pretty dangerous wagon if you felt lukewarm about it

This is the same stance I had for xtoxm in the last game

It's not lukewarm; there are reasons that they can be scum, so I'm fine pushing it