Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I mean, you're not exactly hyperengaged, and I doubt you're a scumhunter extraordinaire, so I don't think you can tell me your Day 1 reads are just /that/ good. It's simply mystifying to me. The more I try and think of an excuse for you, the less likely it seems that there's a good one.

Let's see... We can rule out your reads being super totally awesome from the word jump. We can rule out that there isn't enough content and data by now, given we have (functionally) three flips since Day 1 and over 60 pages to work with. We can rule out that you were focusing on only the dead people and me, since you've mostly had back-and-forths with currently live, unflipped players. We can rule out that you haven't engaged players because ditto. You have all this effort going in, but I don't see anything coming out of it, basically. And then beyond that, let's look at your scumlist, you got nothing but lurkslots and shitposters. I mean, they're all lurkslots, but at least one also shitposts a lot, so. This is practically the definition of LHF. It's /too/ easy. Fish in a barrel. Why would we have missed /any/ shots if that's the scumteam?

I just can't understand how we got to this point, Dunn. I really can't.

[Dunnstral]

So, Dunn, it might seem like I'm getting a bit personal here. If you feel that way, please understand that it's only personal for you. Not for me.

So, my real question here is... Why have you got basically no read progression on anyone since Day 1? I mean, I'll give you Imperium. But changing /one read/ in /two dayphases/ in a game that started with /11 unknown players/ (you know your alignment and everyone knew Netflix's)? I mean, that's crap, isn't it? So what's the excuse here?

That's fair

It's because not much had happened. Rtlotus shot came out of nowhere, and I

did

have read progression when Rtlotus was shot at, though other people accused me of doing something with that

If you think about it, I've talked about all the major events this game:

Netflix and Chill getting the gun at the start, I gave an opinion on that
RTlotus getting shot, I talked about that
Duchess getting shot - I'm here and talking, again. I haven't looked deep into what duchess flip means but I think it's notable that they were a godfather and I didn't feel like there was that good of a reason to push them for most of the game

[Dunnstral]

And my reads have changed

Me thinking Unwnd is scummy is a result of the information from the shots
I've been saying Norfolk has needed to go for a while now, I don't want to get caught up talking in circles

Like, we're not very far into this game, despite how it feels

[MUSHSHAGANA]

It's Day 3 and we're only 2 missed shots from a loss. It really, really isn't that early in the game. I'd expect you to have /something/ more than what you have. Which is... Norfolk, a shot you mentioned first on page 4 and in your third post of the /entire/ game and have /never/ shifted your stance on. A handful of other reads you made on Day 1, like Wheme. Already gave you Imperium, who -- it's worth noting -- was in the /middle/ of your nulls anyway near the end of Day 1. I suppose I have to give you unwnd, but that was so close to Day 1 and Day 1 was so short that it was functionally the same day -- and unwnd was already right next to Not_Mafia at your end of Day 1 readslist, in the bottom half of the nulls. Right above Rockhopper, now petapan, who was in turn just barely outside of the scum section.

Your readslist has mostly just changed where you draw the lines at. Honestly, looking it over, it looks like you've only shifted the actual position of /maybe/ Imperium. Come on, Dunn.

[WhemeStar]

Im glad mush is town now i dont have to read their posts.

i am happy with a nm shot

[Dunnstral]

I think we're looking at things differently, I don't see why it's a bad thing for my reads to not have changed much when I feel like most of the stuff that would shift my reads hasn't happened yet

For duchess being shot my conclusion is that there was probably at least 1 person pushing there early that was scum because godfather is an easy push for scum

And that just happens to line up kind of with what I was already thinking

[Dunnstral]

I don't think there's a reason for me to shift my stance on Norfolk, for instance, aside from overthinking or thinking in circles without a resolution

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Hmmm. That's not a very satisfying response, Dunn. I'll let you have Norfolk's place in line, right after unwnd. No expectations for you or anything, no, that's just where I think you go right now.

[SirCakez]

It's Day 3 and we're only 2 missed shots from a loss. It really, really isn't that early in the game. I'd expect you to have /something/ more than what you have. Which is... Norfolk, a shot you mentioned first on page 4 and in your third post of the /entire/ game and have /never/ shifted your stance on. A handful of other reads you made on Day 1, like Wheme. Already gave you Imperium, who -- it's worth noting -- was in the /middle/ of your nulls anyway near the end of Day 1. I suppose I have to give you unwnd, but that was so close to Day 1 and Day 1 was so short that it was functionally the same day -- and unwnd was already right next to Not_Mafia at your end of Day 1 readslist, in the bottom half of the nulls. Right above Rockhopper, now petapan, who was in turn just barely outside of the scum section.

Your readslist has mostly just changed where you draw the lines at. Honestly, looking it over, it looks like you've only shifted the actual position of /maybe/ Imperium. Come on, Dunn.

Mush I think you're wrong about this because I have pretty much the same reads and I'm town
We have not gotten the flips we need to develop on the universally scumread slots

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Question!

Did I ask for your input on this subject?

(The answer is yes, actually, I just decided not to post it. Goddamn psychics.)


I'll take that into consideration. Still, Dunn remains where they are at for now: second in line for the gun.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think I'm going to be able to give you a response you'll enjoy, but that's how I'm playing this game

I am considering some things like imperium and cakez and internally reasoned that they're more likely to be town for their spat and externally didn't push on them, but that's not very impressive, pointing to things like that isn't useful unless the gunbearer is considering shooting someone I disagree with, which in the last case it was Duchess and from my point of view they were getting pushed for no reason so I gave my opinion on taht (but didn't put it on repeat, just like I didn't put my norfolk scumread on repeat when it was clear netflix wasn't shooting there)

[SirCakez]

I don't need your permission to comment on things lol
I just thought I'd chip in

[Dunnstral]

I don't need your permission to comment on things lol
I just thought I'd chip in

When you respond like that you kind of end up intercepting

[SirCakez]

Ok

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Nah, it's fine. I literally was going to ask Cakez specifically for input and decided against doing it right away to see how your responses played out. Like I said, goddamn psychics.

That said, there /isn't/ any response you can give me that I will enjoy, because I am not here for an entertaining read, but for chaos and disorderly conduct. I have decided you are someone I like for second in line for the gun, specifically. I am deaf to pleas, and, while I may take bribes, I will not be moved by them.

[ScrewTheTells]

For Imperium:

Imperium, where is your definitive argument on why peta is scum? I just kinda expected that you would have finished that write-up while we waited for Day 3. I mean if it's still not presentable now I don't know why you expected to write it before ending Day 2.

Shout out to old jewels and old rules. New blacks with new stacks.

I already been the king. Retro act, I'm just bringing it back like Jordan Packs.

New money,

THEY LOOKING DOWN ON ME

. Blue bloods,

THEY TRYING TO CLOWN ON ME

.

You can turn up your nose high society. But you can never turn down the homie.


Remember that, STT. Just because we are different doesn't mean that I am inferior to you. This comfort that you're feeling won't last forever.

Are you gonna answer the question? I don't know what you mean by referencing some song lyrics. You don't think it's strange to promise a smack down post on why someone is scum and then never deliver? Because I think that's strange.

What can I say except you're welcome?

Oh I know this one! I like it.


For Mush:

ScrewTheTells:

That is a bad towncase. I agree with every bit of it and still I think it is insufficient. I was expecting better.

I would think that if I were aware of any stronger evidence of town-Imperium, they would be much higher on my town-to-scum list. Why would I know info that points to them being town and not also think that they're town? So I don't know why you'd expect me to bring up really great evidence for town-Imperium. Is there something obvious I should be aware of? Don't answer if this info might help scum, obviously. I know you don't need to prove anything now that you're confirmed town, I'm just asking for help seeing things. On that note, if it's not classified info, I'm also curious why you switched gears from crowning petapan scum-king, to passing that title to unwnd instead. Is petapan no longer scummy to you?

Maybe I just don't respect WIFOM-guessing enough in this setup.

Also, you answered my question for unwnd but I think he missed it himself.

[ScrewTheTells]

Unwnd, help me understand:

I stand by what I said of peta earlier, the reasons you're trudging about are not alignment indicative. I think peta is genuinely annoyed/frustrated at your BoP angle, which even in the event of them being scum will make him less cooperative

I think this is the 2nd time you've mentioned the thing about "even if petapan is scum, your play is bad because it makes him uncooperative". How does this work? I don't understand because you can never trust scum to cooperate with you anyway, it's not like if we are nice to them they give us more chances to win. I don't understand this reasoning from a town perspective.

[Norfolk Boy1]

Mush, i'll wall you this evening.

As for whoever scumread me based on low posting: i'm sorry, but i'm in the middle of a Covid situation that is national news in the UK. I'll catch up tonight.

For now, all i'll say is that from the moment I read Lotus' reasoning for Duchess being scum day 1, I liked it and backed it without deviation. I even pushed it and hit home what was going on with Duchess and Imperium (who is locktown for me). When presented with a choice of 2 people to be scum or be shot, I always went Duchess. Now, who posted things like "Duchess might be scum, but I think i'd shoot X right now". Because that's where scum are.

[WhemeStar]

Mush, i'll wall you this evening.

As for whoever scumread me based on low posting: i'm sorry, but i'm in the middle of a Covid situation that is national news in the UK. I'll catch up tonight.

For now, all i'll say is that from the moment I read Lotus' reasoning for Duchess being scum day 1, I liked it and backed it without deviation. I even pushed it and hit home what was going on with Duchess and Imperium (who is locktown for me). When presented with a choice of 2 people to be scum or be shot, I always went Duchess. Now, who posted things like "Duchess might be scum, but I think i'd shoot X right now". Because that's where scum are.

I think this would be true if duchess wasn’t godfather

[Dunnstral]

You've pushed very lightly for your preferred shot

And your word has held very little weight regardless

[WhemeStar]

Thats 2 norfolk right

[petapan]

Is it foolish to say that petapan seems like /exactly/ the sort of person to do something pulsating-universe-brain like that? I mean.... Town /or/ scum, just strikes me like the sort of person to get lost down rabbit holes that way.

He wouldn't do that if scum - if the scumread on us was just a gambit, he invested too much time in the gambit and not enough time solving the game and sharing his solve with the game.

I mean if I'm categorizing who I think in my nulls is more or less inclined to flip scum it'd be

N_M -> STT -> You -> Peta

They're still null though because I only consider someone scum confidently, I am not as confident in this pairing therefore I want to take a risk. You could even say N_M/STT border on null-scum.

Why do you think STT/Duunstral are scum?

Do you really think peta as town faked his townread on us because he was afraid of us getting venge-killed?

just because you don't like the play doesn't make me scum. like, you think it's far-fetched, okay, but the thing is, it's the truth, so it's the only explanation i have, i can't just make up some other story about my read that sounds better. i can't just invent a convenient story that sounds good, i have to say what i was doing even though i know people are gonna roll their eyes at it

but it doesn't matter, if i have to be in the poe it's fine

[petapan]

anyway if you want real scum look at how STT was trying to set up a dichotomy between imperium/cakez and then later shifted it to imperium/me, that shit is skeevy as fuck

I thought I already explained it the first time, it's not a dichotomy, I thought Imperium was scummy for other reasons, what I meant was that if Norfolk actually flipped town then that's reason to consider I was wrong about Imperium since it's more likely that Cakez was genuinely pushing for a misfire. And then the thing with you was that I thought you were pretty town so Imperium's argument seemed to suddenly come from nowhere. Now if you were scum I'd say that looks great for Imperium, but if you're town then that would be the last nail on the coffin and I'd consider Imperium confirmed scum at that point. It's not like I thought for some reason one of you had to be scum. I already thought Imperium was scummy and this is just relevant to that judgement.

My scum read of Imperium hasn't changed much, but now they've also tied their fate with petapan's. If Petapan flips town I'm certain imperium is scum. If Imperium flips scum I think petapan is confirmed town. After failing on their wagon on Cakez and this slot, Imperium probably sees a last opportunity to win with misfire before town kills one of their scumbuddies and makes things a lot harder. The turn on to petapan is too hyped right now. They made all this noise about a smoking gun but it's funny that they delayed the big premiere. Maybe this is a psychological trick to get us more hyped than we should be. Priming us for the argument. I dunno, I can't wait to see the actual substance. Right now it's just "trust me, petapan is scum because meta". I trust meta but I don't trust Imperium, that's the problem.

lmao that quote is clearly trying to set up a dichotomy where one of us has to be scum, it's complete bullshit, don't try to deny it, you've been trying to chain shots on imperium and whoever is pushng them for most of the game

[SirCakez]

Mush, i'll wall you this evening.

As for whoever scumread me based on low posting: i'm sorry, but i'm in the middle of a Covid situation that is national news in the UK. I'll catch up tonight.

For now, all i'll say is that from the moment I read Lotus' reasoning for Duchess being scum day 1, I liked it and backed it without deviation. I even pushed it and hit home what was going on with Duchess and Imperium (who is locktown for me). When presented with a choice of 2 people to be scum or be shot, I always went Duchess. Now, who posted things like "Duchess might be scum, but I think i'd shoot X right now". Because that's where scum are.

Don't buy this

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Eh, I can afford to buy it, Cakez. After all, if I'm wrong, we get a tasty red shot and no one even has to try too hard. This is exactly the sort of stuff you should just sit back and watch play out, because they either successfully blow past your wildest expectations or spontaneously combust in the breakdown lane, and it turns out town wins either way.



STT, I find it /hilarious/ that you are trying to figure out the one part of my current play that I have explained in detail to everyone. That in fact were some of my first posts for this dayphase. That's adorable.

ISO me.



petapan, I demand your Day 2 reads-chart! When you get around to it. (If you won't for awhile, I demand some acknowledgement that you have read my post. Also, my demands are not currently backed by mortar fire, so if you are boring and hate suspense you can substitute "request".)