Mini Normal 2185 | EFoBBBiO | Game Over!

[joqiza]

Lunar, I think what you're gonna need to do if you're town is come to specific FOS between Luca/Gamma and build the case yourself. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that for you since I'm not really seeing much that I can hold against them on rr. Saying "we should just nuke both of them" isn't really gonna work because as of rn you're not gonna be able to easily effect those hangs.

I have two suspects and two lims remaining.

I'd advise everyone to play as though they have one chance to elim mafia here. I think that's the right mindset.

[Gamma Emerald]

That would maybe assuage some of my immediate concern regarding Lunar

[Lunar Martian]

VOTE: Amélie

This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.

134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.

138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's 142 in response to this.

139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Bugs

I feel more confident about this atm. I really dislike Amélie‘s reads and the way she formulates them, but it could be a clash of play styles more than anything. She reminds me of the kind of player I’d tunnel and end up mislynching in the past.

That vote came out of nowhere, possibly a late bus attempt.

Lunar should claim in their next post.

I haven’t really caught up yet, but I’m willing to go along with this.

VOTE: ORAM

VOTE: Bugs

VOTE: Momrangal

Couldn’t resist.

VOTE: Bugspray

i accept no other substitutes for an elim this day.

This.

VOTE: Bugspray

I can get behind Frogster's reasoning here. There's not much separating Lunar/Outworld, but Lunar probably has more towntelly posts and was pushed for elim by both Bugs and Momrangal D1. There's no point eliminating ejj due to their claim, as that will self-resolve anyway.

VOTE: OutworldER

E-1

All of Luca's votes plus one or two bonus posts.

[Lunar Martian]

Personality test are always the worst part of a hiring process when you submit an application for work

That’s not an answer. The 10 RQS questions aren’t solely personality questions.
And in the context of a mafia game, reads immediately based on a person’s answers aren’t great, but what does have value is reads that factor in the personality of the player. You got pissy about your style being NAI, but when you share your personality with those tests, you let people now how you work on a basic level so they know what parts of your behavior is NAI playstyle stuff. After doing that, one can read someone factoring that in, toning down scumvibes that come from style but also finding where the person is acting outside of what makes sense based on their personality. I think you’re right about personality is not a reason for a scumread, but you’re using that to blow the whole deal out of proportion and dodge the entire matter, which seems like scum using a strawman logic to break down a valid idea.
VOTE: NPOM

UNVOTE:
If we’re gonna do this let’s do it right.

By the way I think for Day 1 I want to try to townblock and have a group of voices I trust to bounce ideas off of

I'm not getting anything out of the personality testing. I think we should go back to this.

I consider this a clear stance of siding with NoPowerOverMe and I'm not sure how to word this but "weakening" Frogsterking and his unique approach to mafia. I'm not sure what to make of this at the moment and I'll have to continue thinking about it.

I’m not entirely a fan of this. I think Galron’s post was rather constructive, since rather than just downtalk frog’s idea, he also uplifted my own, so I think Galron has good motives rn. Also Galron seems to be limbaity from my last game with him, so I’d be wary of those pushing him.
VOTE: Amelie

I think Amelie’s recent effort seems decent.
VOTE: bugspray
Let’s whack some weeds, shall we?

VOTE: lunar martian
Might as well

UNVOTE:
While the current gamestate is okay I do want to talk some more, so I’ll do this to avert a hammer.

VOTE: bugspray

@Gamma

I think it's important that you join the ORAM wagon because it will be a great chance to test the validity of the town block.

@Gamma

I suspect it may be a scenario where the scummiest players were a combination of scum and prs and ORAM is so much more likely to be scum than a pr because AGamblingPig wouldn't have flaked if he rolled pr. On top of that both bugs and Lunar hinted very strongly they were pr, and AGamblingPig and even ORAM did not. If that wasn't enough, AGamblingPig was voting LunarMartian the whole time until ORAM came back and unvoted.

yeah, I had AGP in a gae I recently modded and while he was lurky he did not flake out despite being VT. So if that's what he was like as VT I think this play makes more sense as scum vs. town PR
VOTE: ORAM
town block validity is also good to test imo

Despite everything else, I still feel pretty confident for other reasons that Trendall is Mafia, and Gamma's post there as well as a few others recently suggest that we are on the right track and Mafia is trying to organize to shift momentum.

In actuality I wasn’t looking too favorably on Trendall up until that post, but it caused a spark to change my mind and I’m thinking maybe Frogster is up to something.
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’m not too sure about this but it can’t hurt to kick up some dirt, eh?

That post doesn’t read as nice, it reads as condescending. “Strange internet people”? That sort of rhetoric serves no purpose than to aggress others. Why are the people strange to you??? And saying “his reads aren’t that great” is not a good look when he also suspects you.
VOTE: Lunar Martian
Nah fuck this. When I break it down that post is loaded with blatant discrediting.

I think I probably overreacted
UNVOTE:
I want to sort out what I’m actually thinking vs. what I’m feeling, if that makes sense

VOTE: bugspray
okay then

VOTE: Bugspray
I almost completely agree with the case and my one concern doesn’t really weaken it at all

UNVOTE:
I wanna see that analysis

I moreso meant his comparison of ours and why it caused us to conflict
but I think your post I quoted might explain it just as well, and I'm willing to go with that

VOTE: bugspray
I don't recall anyone else having a reason to wait to end the day

VOTE: Lunar
he's flailing at this point, he is trying to find the best miselim and switching his vote as he changes his mind.

VOTE: ower

Same for Gamma. All votes excluding the initial RVS vote.

[Lunar Martian]

Votecount 1.Eliminate

ORAM(7)

~ Frogsterking(121), Grendel(87), bugspray(65), Luca Blight(102), Momrangal(53), Gamma Emerald(128), NoPowerOverMe(135)

-- HAMMER

Lunar Martian(2)

~ Galron(35), Amélie(79)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(23), Lunar Martian(66)

OutWorldER(1)

~ Trendall(38)


Not Voting (0):


With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

Sorry for late flip.

For this flip i roll for a random frame.

1d19035 = 8776

FLAVOR

frame 8776 out of 19035

ORAM has been eliminated! He was a:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town

Votecount 2.3

bugspray(3)

~ OutWorldER(8), Luca Blight(49), Frogsterking(25)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ NoPowerOverMe(10), Trendall(14)

Trendall(1)

~ Lunar Martian(21)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(13)


Not Voting (4): Momrangal(0), bugspray(7), Gamma Emerald(12), Galron(3)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ prodding Momrangal

FLAVOR

frame 17 out of 19035

Votecount 2.4

Trendall(3)

~ Lunar Martian(43), NoPowerOverMe(14), Frogsterking(53)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ Trendall(29), Gamma Emerald(20)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(9), Luca Blight(52)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(17)


Not Voting (3): Momrangal(7), bugspray(7), Galron(6)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ prodding bugspray

FLAVOR

frame 18 out of 19035

Votecount 2.6

bugspray(5)

~ OutWorldER(9), Luca Blight(55), Frogsterking(64), Gamma Emerald(27), Trendall(46)

Trendall(2)

~ Lunar Martian(45), NoPowerOverMe(16)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(17)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(10)


Not Voting (2): bugspray(13), Galron(8)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 20 out of 19035

Votecount 2.7

Momrangal(5)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54)

bugspray(2)

~ Luca Blight(61), Gamma Emerald(32)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(14)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)


Not Voting (2): bugspray(16), Galron(13)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 21 out of 19035

Votecount 2.Eliminate

Momrangal(6)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54), Luca Blight(63)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(15)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)

bugspray(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(32)


Not Voting (3): bugspray(16), Galron(13), Momrangal(0)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ i didn't forget that with 11 alive, it takes 6 for majority and i definitely didn't not realize that was a hammer and left the thread open like a dumbass
~ as i only have access to the first ~50 frames, i cannot roll a 1d19035 for a random frame. apologies for the inconvenience.

FLAVOR

frame 22 out of 19035

Votecount 3.5

bugspray(4)

~ OutWorldER(3), Luca Blight(27), Frogsterking(64), Gamma Emerald(34)

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(78), bugspray(18), Galron(4)


Not Voting (2): Lunar Martian(39), joqiza(31)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

FLAVOR

frame 26 out of 19035

Votecount 3.7

bugspray(4)

~ OutWorldER(6), Luca Blight(48), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(49)

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(93), Galron(8), bugspray(38)


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald(41), joqiza(41)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

MOD REMINDERS

Frogsterking has been prodded

FLAVOR

frame 28 out of 19035

Votecount 3.Elimination

bugspray(5)

~ OutWorldER(6), Luca Blight(48), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(49), Gamma Emerald(43)

-- HAMMER

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(95), Galron(8), bugspray(38)


Not Voting (1): joqiza(41)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

MOD REMINDERS

1d19036 = 1665

FLAVOR

Bugspray has been eliminated! They were a:

Spoiler:

mafia backup neighbour

Some VCs relevant to Gamma. I'm thinking the Gamma is Mafia. In a bit I'll look through VCs relevant to Luca, and then do analysis of both of them.

[Lunar Martian]

Votecount 1.8

bugspray(3)

~ Trendall(14), Gamma Emerald(49), NoPowerOverMe(52)

Trendall(2)

~ Grendel(31), OutWorldER(10)

NoPowerOverMe(2)

~ Lunar Martian(5), Momrangal(24)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ AGamblingPig(3), Frogsterking(28)

Amélie(2)

~ Luca Blight(21), bugspray(22)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Amélie(32)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Galron(18)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

• prodding Trendall

FLAVOR

frame 7 out of 19035

Votecount 1.9

bugspray(4)

~ Trendall(24), Gamma Emerald(55), NoPowerOverMe(59), Luca Blight(30)

Trendall(3)

~ Grendel(36), OutWorldER(10), Momrangal(27)

NoPowerOverMe(2)

~ Lunar Martian(6), Amélie(40)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ AGamblingPig(3), Frogsterking(29)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Galron(20)

Amélie(1)

~ bugspray(26)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

•Prodding AGamblingPig and OutWorldER

FLAVOR

frame 8 out of 19035

Votecount 1.Eliminate

ORAM(7)

~ Frogsterking(121), Grendel(87), bugspray(65), Luca Blight(102), Momrangal(53), Gamma Emerald(128), NoPowerOverMe(135)

-- HAMMER

Lunar Martian(2)

~ Galron(35), Amélie(79)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(23), Lunar Martian(66)

OutWorldER(1)

~ Trendall(38)


Not Voting (0):


With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

Sorry for late flip.

For this flip i roll for a random frame.

1d19035 = 8776

FLAVOR

frame 8776 out of 19035

ORAM has been eliminated! He was a:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town

Votecount 2.3

bugspray(3)

~ OutWorldER(8), Luca Blight(49), Frogsterking(25)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ NoPowerOverMe(10), Trendall(14)

Trendall(1)

~ Lunar Martian(21)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(13)


Not Voting (4): Momrangal(0), bugspray(7), Gamma Emerald(12), Galron(3)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ prodding Momrangal

FLAVOR

frame 17 out of 19035

Votecount 2.7

Momrangal(5)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54)

bugspray(2)

~ Luca Blight(61), Gamma Emerald(32)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(14)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)


Not Voting (2): bugspray(16), Galron(13)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 21 out of 19035

Votecount 2.Eliminate

Momrangal(6)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54), Luca Blight(63)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(15)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)

bugspray(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(32)


Not Voting (3): bugspray(16), Galron(13), Momrangal(0)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ i didn't forget that with 11 alive, it takes 6 for majority and i definitely didn't not realize that was a hammer and left the thread open like a dumbass
~ as i only have access to the first ~50 frames, i cannot roll a 1d19035 for a random frame. apologies for the inconvenience.

FLAVOR

frame 22 out of 19035

Votecount 3.Elimination

bugspray(5)

~ OutWorldER(6), Luca Blight(48), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(49), Gamma Emerald(43)

-- HAMMER

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(95), Galron(8), bugspray(38)


Not Voting (1): joqiza(41)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

MOD REMINDERS

1d19036 = 1665

FLAVOR

Bugspray has been eliminated! They were a:

Spoiler:

mafia backup neighbour

Ok yeah its Gamma. For it to be Luca, Luca would have had to hard bus most of the game, including deciding to bus Gamma immediately on Day 3 after bussing Mom on day 2.

[Lunar Martian]

I can provide a longer explanation if you want, but if you just look a the quoted posts I hope you'll see what I saw.

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 5.3

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Lunar Martian(36)

ejjinami(1)

~ ejjinami(25)


Not Voting (3): Gamma Emerald(13), joqiza(24), Luca Blight(14)

With 5 alive it takes 3 to eliminate.

Day 5 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-10 20:27:15)

FLAVOR

frame 37 out of 19035

[Gamma Emerald]

wnoifoinegwnenierinef
your math skills are terrible

[Gamma Emerald]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

[Lunar Martian]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

Walk me through how any of that implies Luca is Mafia.

[joqiza]

OK Lunar I appreciate the work you put together with the vote counts, and we're on the same page with Luca--it'd surprise me if he flipped scum cuz he pretty much got bugs chopped, and it seemed like he'd been trying to do that pretty consistently since d1. Also seems like Momrangal was trying to talk him off the wagon. So yeah, let's take Luca town for now.

What's the argument for Gamma scum though? That's what I'm missing from the VC's, walk me through that. Remember, I don't know your alignment, and even if I assume you're town, that doesn't necessarily mean to me that it's Gamma, cuz it could still be ejjinami. I know you TR ejji, but would you say there's an actual reason for Gamma to be scum other than just PoE?

When I grow confident in a solve it's when I simultaneously feel confident in the things that make my townreads town, as well as the things that make my scumreads scum. That's kind of what I'm looking for here.

[joqiza]

Like to me, it seems like you just said, "okay, ejjinami town, so it's in Luca/Gamma. Oh, joq wants me to pick one? Hm, well, looks like it can't be Luca, so it must be Gamma."

But like, you seem to be missing the step where you say, "okay, is Gamma actually scummy? Is there a narrative I can create in my head for scum!Gamma that makes sense in terms of his interactions with the flipped mafia and how he would have played the game? What does the setup look like if Gamma is scum?"

Because at least for me, I find a lot that I PoE to someone, and then it's like, "wait, this feels weird. Maybe I need to revisit the assumptions I've made thus far."

And it feels like you're missing those final steps rn, but maybe I'm just not seeing it.

[Lunar Martian]

I may not have put them in the thread, but I think the VCA is pretty damning. I'll elaborate tomorrow evening.

[Gamma Emerald]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

Walk me through how any of that implies Luca is Mafia.

I’m not stating that
I’m stating your play this game is a dumpster fire, and I’m inclined to eliminate you just because if you’re scum you don’t deserve to win with this level of play.

[Lunar Martian]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

Walk me through how any of that implies Luca is Mafia.

I’m not stating that
I’m stating your play this game is a dumpster fire, and I’m inclined to eliminate you just because if you’re scum you don’t deserve to win with this level of play.

That's not only uncalled for, but it does nothing to solve or advance the game in any way.

[Lunar Martian]

Look at Gamma's positioning on and around wagons, particularly wagons that flip scum. Gamma is willing to vote Mafia early on but then unvotes to "rethink". Gamma generally was pushing counterwagons to scum wagons.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well it’s how I feel and I’m not feeling like filtering myself

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Lunar Martian
Reviewing my play mentally, I feel like anyone who is town would be able to see how my game is beyond what scum should really need to pull in a game like this, and as such I think Lunar is scum who dodged that entire issue by trying to present an argument based on votes, a much more bendable medium. Statistics don’t lie but liars use statistics, and that feels like what Lunar is trying to pull.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay on second thought I lashed out at an error initially, but I stand by my assertion that my play stands tall and proud and Lunar is trying to use alternate arguments to overlook that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Look at Gamma's positioning on and around wagons, particularly wagons that flip scum. Gamma is willing to vote Mafia early on but then unvotes to "rethink". Gamma generally was pushing counterwagons to scum wagons.

I reviewed the quoted votes and this doesn’t even seem to match what’s quoted.

[joqiza]

Look at Gamma's positioning on and around wagons, particularly wagons that flip scum. Gamma is willing to vote Mafia early on but then unvotes to "rethink". Gamma generally was pushing counterwagons to scum wagons.

Other than ORAM, which counterwagons was he involved in? It looks like other than that he just had his vote on bugs.

[joqiza]

I mean, I do think the ORAM wagon was kind of sketch. Bugs and Momrangal were both on it, so clearly it was their ticket to D2. But I don't really see any reason to believe that all 3 mafia

had

to be on it, given the other counterwagons kind of disintegrated. My recollection is that Frog was prety determined to hang the slot due to some psychometrics rabbit hole he went down. I'll review it ig.

[ejjinami]

I’m screwed, I’m so screwed. I thought I’d be able to post yesterday after cramming, but I wasn’t. I thought I’d be able to post today but I’m just not
Tomorrow is my last exam till monday but I’m not sure if I’ll have the luxury to take an 1-2h break during the weekend either.

I can’t promise activity. I’ll try to squeeze in a moment to try to decide whom to vote but that’s probably it. 
If you’re fine with that kind of activity, I’ll try to do at least the bare minimum... if not, I’ll probably have to replace out.

sorry

[Gamma Emerald]

that's fine imo
just do what you can