TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Cephrir]

Scum will fear the unpredictable power of the vibe

[OkaPoka]

we vibe and search for other vibers

perhaps the old crew could get back together

you know, for old times sake, a whole *checks notes* week ago

[Xtoxm]

mm, okay response. huge activity spike. probably nai.

The implication that I never say "I like x" as town is wrong

I did it in Tenet, I did it in the last run of this of this setup

the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case

misrepping me like this isn't going to help me trust you. there are no instances of it in v1. there's one post where you quote me say "i dont like this read"..but that doesn't

really

match what we've been looking for.
the claim isn't that you don't provide insight as scum (you do as both aligns), or that you never make empty posts as town..its that it happens

more often

as scum.

i don't really wanna get bogged down on the meta stuff tho. it's supplementary.
i'll reassess the read if im given reasons to.

[OkaPoka]

thoughts on dgb @xtoxm?

[Dunnstral]

I feel like that post does have reasons, so do you mean something in forgetting about by "the big tell"

instances of dunn doing it this game:

I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here

I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read

And I don't like DGB on 37

And I do like Dann, Ceph, jjh, and to a cautious extent lld

The worst/Winter Flakes/Titus: This group feels unreadable for me; I want to say there's probably scum in this group

DGB feels vaguely good but don't trust me to read there.

Hercule looks genuinely towny now that we've moved past the early stuff

Titus, A50, ABR, I have no idea.

Never played with Ythan, keeping an eye out here now that IV has cased them

the worst is unimpressive

OkaPoka I'm trusting other people that he's town. I don't have any problems with them.

[OkaPoka]

lets move on guys

[Xtoxm]

thoughts on dgb @xtoxm?

town

[OkaPoka]

expand on it?

[OkaPoka]

actually scratch that you think LLD is scum~

why is LLD scum?

[Dunnstral]

mm, okay response. huge activity spike. probably nai.

The implication that I never say "I like x" as town is wrong

I did it in Tenet, I did it in the last run of this of this setup

the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case

misrepping me like this isn't going to help me trust you. there are no instances of it in v1. there's one post where you quote me say "i dont like this read"..but that doesn't

really

match what we've been looking for.
the claim isn't that you don't provide insight as scum (you do as both aligns), or that you never make empty posts as town..its that it happens

more often

as scum.

i don't really wanna get bogged down on the meta stuff tho. it's supplementary.
i'll reassess the read if im given reasons to.

I think me saying "feels vaguely good" is the same meaning even if the word choice isn't exactly the same

And there are other examples int he post I quoted

[DrippingGoofball]

My LLD scumread is not in a vacuum.

I know I am terse, and I don't usually wall post. So let me try a little harder to convince you all.

• You can see in the posts above (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12572656), in real time, how I viewed LLD's blustery game start totally discrediting mastina as scummy. It could have been good-natured ribbing, which I considered, but LLD came in like a sledgehammer. LLD made a full series of posts trying to de-fang mastina's future scumhunting. I detected a hint of trying to demoralize her. LLD tends to be over the top, but this was over the top even for her:
  https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12559295
  https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12559296
  https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12559301
  These posts are LLD pre-emptively, and aggressively neutralizing mastina.

• If I had any doubt that LLD wanted to neutralize mastina, these doubts vanished when LLD literally voted hercule to put her money where her mouth is, so to speak. Then LLD makes a case on hercule after deciding that using mastina as an
  absolute compass
  to solve the game (even if in reverse). At the time of LLD's case, I wasn't sure about hercule's entry post, she might have had a point, but later I began to town read hercule and I saw it from a different perspective.

• Now, I know I'm not going to convince anyone but myself with how I found LLD's scum ego post scummy, but to be transparent in my thinking, I found it scummy in the context of the neutralization of mastina, and based on mastina's supposed bad reads, manufacturing a case on hercule off the cuff. It was a huge wall of manipulation that didn't come from a townie mindset.

• I found the rage/anger/AtE to be hollow and insincere (that's a matter of personal interpretation, I realize). I usually respond to AtE, I am one of the site's biggest sucker for AtE. So, AtE has to be pretty bad not to move me. LLD's AtE left me completely cold, which is astonishing.

• Now she's strategically lurking as her scumpals manufacture a counterwagon on her attacker.

[Xtoxm]

actually scratch that you think LLD is scum~

why is LLD scum?

im struggling to put that read to words in the same way i can with dunn
i could give some reasons probably but they will sound dumb

[Cephrir]

I feel like that post does have reasons, so do you mean something in forgetting about by "the big tell"

instances of dunn doing it this game:

I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here

I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read

And I don't like DGB on 37

And I do like Dann, Ceph, jjh, and to a cautious extent lld

The worst/Winter Flakes/Titus: This group feels unreadable for me; I want to say there's probably scum in this group

DGB feels vaguely good but don't trust me to read there.

Hercule looks genuinely towny now that we've moved past the early stuff

Titus, A50, ABR, I have no idea.

Never played with Ythan, keeping an eye out here now that IV has cased them

the worst is unimpressive

OkaPoka I'm trusting other people that he's town. I don't have any problems with them.

Mm, okay. I imputed the, like, contrapositive or something.

[Dunnstral]

Your read on me is underdeveloped to a point where it doesn't feel real

[OkaPoka]

you think LLD!scum lets her scum partners bail her out and not try and bail herself out? @dgb???

[OkaPoka]

actually scratch that you think LLD is scum~

why is LLD scum?

im struggling to put that read to words in the same way i can with dunn
i could give some reasons probably but they will sound dumb

but you are stronger on LLD scum than dunn scum?

[Cephrir]

I've seen LLD talking about her belief that mastina sucks outside of mafia games, and with that context the discrediting stuff is a total zero for me.

[Xtoxm]

actually scratch that you think LLD is scum~

why is LLD scum?

im struggling to put that read to words in the same way i can with dunn
i could give some reasons probably but they will sound dumb

but you are stronger on LLD scum than dunn scum?

until tonights flurry dunn was the stronger read, i think lld is now. lld feels more important to elim gamestate wise.

[Xtoxm]

basically
-i townread pretty much the entire wagon
-she asked to boped on hercule. i have a mega tr on hercule i feel like i dont need to mis elim him first for that.
-there was a moment where i was talking to dunn and i didnt feel he was being townie at all and lld came in and called dunn town and it sounded really fake
-the wagon feels hardstuck and that makes me think its a situation like last game where scum are just refusing to bus

i think theres more but im super tired rn

[Dunnstral]

You townread dgb because you scumread lld

You scumread lld because you townread the wagon

This is circular reasoning

[Dunnstral]

-the wagon feels hardstuck and that makes me think its a situation like last game where scum are just refusing to bus

Nobody was willing to explain the wagon at all until very recently

It wasn't stuck, the fact that it got to that many votes was silly

[Xtoxm]

perhaps a little
but i do feel like lld red flip would strongly imply the wagon parkers are town cus i dont think scum would be wanting to bus her
if its green i need to shake up my game view
this is why shes a good gamestate flip

[Dannflor]

-the wagon feels hardstuck and that makes me think its a situation like last game where scum are just refusing to bus

I mean it got to E-2

and I know I'm one of those refusing to vote LLD but I'm town so it's harder for me to buy this reasoning

[Dannflor]

-there was a moment where i was talking to dunn and i didnt feel he was being townie at all and lld came in and called dunn town and it sounded really fake

i think this is the best reason you have (whether or not I agree with it, idk where exactly it is even) and I'd be interested in anything else you/auro have that has specifically to do with what LLD has done

when you're less tired if need be

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's honestly hilarious. I leave and the argument switches to LLD is lurking to let her scumbuddies bail her out!

Ignoring the fact that makes zero sense and has a much worse chance of saving my life, and if I do die would make all my scumbuddies in worse positions.

So just bad logic all around.

But even ignoring that, the best part about it is that it's post facto logic. There is no longer an attempt to actually read my actions, and then decide my alignment.

They're trying to take my actions and force them into an allignment.

Which is why the "the wagon is stalllinggggg" argument is being made, because while it is now technically true because people are starting to come around on me being town, it is also a functionally bad argument because it says nothing about my alignment ESPECIALLY when I got to 8/10 needed votes to eliminate basically on thin air.

So, to summize, there are players pushing my wagon based on thin air, using post facto logic and bad reasonsings.

Not all of them can be scum, but the ones who are blindly saying stuff like "it has to be LLD today" "LLD gives the most info" are definitely runnign behind the mass idiocy that got us here.

I do not think all of DGB/Xtom/Hercule can be town. I'm not sure if there's more than 1 scum in it but I think they can't all be town this game.