Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[quiet]

Nah the vote is on right now. Prism is currently voting floo.

[flow trap]

Nah the vote is on right now. Prism is currently voting floo.

I missed the revote

[flow trap]

Confirmed not flow trap/Spartan

Is this from the recent interactions or did you go back?

[Prism]

Am out atm but it's from you posting simultaneously, can't blitz, post was more for quiet. 0 chance Spartan shows up EoD to potentially flip you Day 2

[Prism]

Floo. Claim.

[Prism]

I wil obviously claim after.

Town needs to make a judgment as to who should first and force it under threat of vote. Hint: It's floo.

[Spartan117]

I thought that Day 2 was too much but actually tracking Spartan's progression here this is terrible.

Spartan, here's every explanation you've given for your floo townread.

floo

Floo's posts are few but tend to be emotive and full of thought, 124 pushing flow trap to get his read on safebet when he previously explained 2/3 of his reads is good to see very townie pushing for reads.
It's hard to find a lot about Floo but from what I have seen from reading everything through chronologically they seem to provide some straight forward towny input when they do contribute will keep an eye on this slot.

floo has actually been trying to solve the game and has natural reads rather than just town reading everyone like quiet)

Please don't vote floo, I really read him as town (I feel like you are trying to get away with a floo lynch without any of the responsibility of being the causing factor on a floolynch), in comparison to fredrick it shouldnt even be a question he has just lurked around prodged and contributed little to nothing,

floo has produced natural reads and is seriously my strongest town read.

Have mine and quiet's reads not "natural, straight forward towny input"? This is incredibly vague and hasn't changed at all since post 746.

You've constantly demanded to know why we're townreading various slots/going really far out of your way to discredit our reads at every turn but have failed to seriously evaluate this slot or explain this read in the slightest the entire game.

Below I am going to list a few quotes I found to give me a feeling of them being town, whether it was from them trying to scum hunt/sort people, or engage with others.

With the game becoming more serious, I can explain my motives. I switched my RVS vote from Enchant to flow trap because I wanted to see where a conversation would go. flow trap's posting style is lighthearted with a lot of small talk and interactions with other player, as one of the most active users so far (might be the most active in terms of post count). I stated my vote was "partially serious" (40) to avoid seeming suspicious from an apparent OMGUS (as you guessed) and a second (apparently) random vote. I am explaining my intentions now because I would rather have flow trap discuss his/her gameplay or opinions than post joke reactions.

Early on as far as D1 goes but was trying to obtain information from flow trap rather than some reactions that scum may have been fine with and just ridden along, as scumfloo surely wouldn't have been as worried about putting in the effort in, especially to try and divert the game towards a productive direction.

What about safebet222?

Chasing up flow trap so as to get the full answer from him, something far more likely to come from town while scum would be less inclined to push for the full answer.

Right, as I explained I said it was "partially serious" to avoid seeming scummy / too random.

The concern of coming across scummy and feeling the need to explain why they expressed themselves in a certain way is a bit sus but i can see the reason as to why they are saying it, so NAI for me here.

I see other players passing esotericzoomer for questioning the flow trap wagon for a difference in gameplay philosophy. The problem is he was too insistent in his complaint even though flow trap was at zero chance to actually die. There was no harm in the wagon while he yelled that there was no gain. That makes me think EZ was insincere. Besides he has no reads besides the convenient safebet scumread needed to vote him even though he talks Mafia theory and debates the little town/scumtells other people have pointed out. Scumlean on esotericzoomer currently.

This read met with what was going on at the time, and felt a natural branch out from the previous focus he had put on flow trap up to this point.

possible motives for this:
- wild reaction test (most rational motive)
- attention seeking
- perplex other players
- avoid scumreads for posting weird stuff (like the Mafia joke claim) and then not posting weird stuff
- concern over lolhammer (talked about it at the beginning of the game, very disapprovingly)

Again trying to break down reads understand possible reasons for posts and at the very least providing perspectives for townies to view from.

Your comments about 365 assume that Enchant and Fredrick are scumpartners. Let's say that Fredrick is town, however, regardless of Enchant's alignment. Then he would just be asking you to read Enchant in a different way that is more logically sound, which is perfectly normal for town to do. I haven't read/thought enough about if it is likely that Enchant and Fredrick are partners.

You said in 228 that you didn't want to give Enchant the benefit of the doubt because you "don't want to get burned again." If I'm reading that as it appears, you don't want to think about Enchant with the proper assumptions because you don't want to be voted. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm reading through your ISO and feel like half of your posts are interactions with flow trap. What's your current read on flow trap?

Again coming across very townie, pushing players looking for reads trying to view things from different perspectives to analyse things from all angles rather than just focusing on one view and holding it and pushing it without looking at the alternatives.

To explain more, just because Enchant is unpredictable. I don't want to risk any hammer while this conversation between quiet and Enchant is still ongoing

At the end of D1 he unvoted enchant to ensure the day didnt end too quickly so that the conversation could continue something i think is only in the interests of town, it could have been so much easier for him to just leave his vote on there, but instead he unvotes.

If he's that desperate, yes.

Enchant appears to have attempted gamethrow in frustrated desperation, that's the important takeaway. Could be legitimate town desperation or a scum Hail Mary.

Again viewing things from both sides, short and simple but at the very least not cancelling any options out completely.

1005 came across from a towns perspective as well i could see where he was coming from even if i didnt agree with all the points he made. Town aren't all suppose to agree with the same points as we are looking at things from different perspectives assuming everyone but ourselves is possible mafia.

Reasons to kill esotericzoomer:

Widely townread?

esotericzoomer was more of a "passive townread," in that he was away from scrutiny in the final leg of Day 1. He had his share of scummy lines to justify a vote. Prism or myself would be a better choice for this reason.

Scumreads

His other scumread was Fredrick. There are other players who scumread Fredrick, so killing EZ would be a poor choice. Fredrick is somewhat vindicated by Enchant's town flip. Plus, EZ's 100% confidence about scumreading Enchant would have blocked his chances of pushing a further scumread.

I think there are two plausible reasons then. The two reasons I mentioned above would not be the main reasons to kill, but could be secondary ones.
- Probable power role. I have not read enough into EZ's posts to see where this is implied though.
- Avoid Doctor/Jailkeeper. This is a hybrid reason which combines "widely townread" and/or "scumreads."

Expressed thoughts on the D1 NK something that he didnt have to do, but felt the need to review to express more reads and delve deeper into the ties between players, something that some other players at the time were not willing to do.

1108 pushing sal based of the image conscious nature they presented of themselves.

Is being dismissive really towny or NAI? There's a line between "the scumreads on me don't matter, I'll just hunt for scum" versus "the people who scumread me are stupid." I'm seeing the latter from Salsabil Faria.

I took a negative tone because I knew she was more prone to being baited into a fight as you call it, I wouldn't do the same to a calmer player who reasons it out rather than yelling with GIFs and emojis. Sal is baiting me too into a fight, either intentionally or not, by responding to a harsh and serious accusation flippantly. This only makes me want to pressure her further, which I did, consciously accepting the risk of growing bitterness. Is a dismissive and flippant attitude appropriate anymore?

I can see the logic in the reasoning behind their push on the origin from Sals reaction, while Sal had appeared townie day 1, I can see why with several of Sals posts which showed signs of concern about being scum read to be suspicious so I think this route of enquiry makes logical sense.

1202 He provides a full breakdown of Sals posts with other players looking at it from her perspective as well as from the outside rather than just attacking for his opinion upon what she has said. and at the very end of his post its not just ending the situation there say with a vote, he leaves it open for more room for discussion so that the situation can develop and more reads can progress.

Explain your reads and don't respond with an "I don't care"

Townie reaction that I can resonate with, frustration from being palmed off.

1223 1225 while reviewing quiets slot, not only does floo provide a breakdown of posts of quiets with descriptions of their thoughts on them, he also breaks down safebets posts from before they switched out to try and gain a more in-depth read on the slot, something that i dont see scum bothering to do, it just strikes me as something townie.

1259 expands on his reads of quiet providing more reads and information also doubting himself at the start of the post opening himself up for people to respond and challenge his read of their slot, not being close minded that his read is final and having an open mind ready for change is another aspect that makes me feel very townie with his slot.

1317 1318 his posts here seem methodical and thought out coming across to me as if trying to solve the puzzle, trying to have open discussion with prism going through post by post on his thoughts about the posts and interactions between him and sal on their reasoning for scumreading him.

1548 His final reads on D2, while I may not agree with all of it I can understand his rational behind why he thinks that way and it doesn't come across like his is trying to push a point that has some agenda behind it, more that they are his opinions.

Haven't got the time or mental ability at this time to process 1814 but will read through it again tomorrow when I am more awake.



Overall I get a better townie feeling from him than I did from most players this whole game this is not to say that i am sure he is town it is more of a read but from assessing his posts that is how i see it. Flow trap like most have mentioned is a Chaos God and was very hectic with his style, although I feel on this final day specifically, the attitude behind his posts comes across more genuine than it did on previous days, not to say that's necessarily townie indicative but that I feel he is putting more effort or at least plans to, I have yet to read through his big posts but plan on putting time into re-reads his slot over the weekend and will share my thoughts then.

[Spartan117]

@spartian, hope things go better for you. I’ll see if I can give a summery of the things I’m most interested in hearing from you about

Thank you, going to bed now, I need to wake up in 4-5hours for work aha

[quiet]

Am out atm but it's from you posting simultaneously, can't blitz, post was more for quiet. 0 chance Spartan shows up EoD to potentially flip you Day 2

just to clarify, becuase I think this is a mechanical lock at this point, no reads required,
spartian + flow is impossible because they hammer and win. They were both online, there was and still is a vote on floo, game would be over.

So that means from my pov, the only remaining possible teams are:
Flow trap+floo
spartian+floo

some combo with prism (which I find occurring at very, very low frequency)
(combos would have to be either prism+spartan or prism+flow trap)

[quiet]

other teams of concern from other's povs:
quiet + floo, quiet + prism. No other combo works, we hammer and win.

[Prism]

Really appreciate the time and effort you put into that Spartan. I didn't really sleep last night so I'll tackle it in the morning. Let me know what you think of my slot on reread.

[Prism]

That might have come off a bit brusque, but really-thanks for handling that in the best possible way, and I look forward to reading it tomorrow.

[quiet]

Overall I get a better townie feeling from him than I did from most players this whole game this is not to say that i am sure he is town it is more of a read but from assessing his posts that is how i see it. Flow trap like most have mentioned is a Chaos God and was very hectic with his style, although I feel on this final day specifically, the attitude behind his posts comes across more genuine than it did on previous days, not to say that's necessarily townie indicative but that I feel he is putting more effort or at least plans to, I have yet to read through his big posts but plan on putting time into re-reads his slot over the weekend and will share my thoughts then.

@spartian, this post def. helped me understand your perspective on floo a lot better. I think we agree on the sentiment analysis side; floo's posts (contentwise), with the exception of their posts today (which oh god, take a look at when you wake up, are very much NOT the floo i've come to know and love and possibly want to eliminate from this town) come across as considered, genuine, game solving, and high effort.

I really, really liked floo day1. I was against eliminating floo yesterday, for basically the same reason you have pulled out in that review of their play; their posts throughout the game give almost every appearance of being from someone who wanted to solve the game, and I was really hoping I'd see something today to help support that feeling. But basically, as it stands, finding an innocent floo means finding a guilty prism. And here's where the case on floo starts to sour a bit.

My suspicion of floo mostly comes from what they are not posting, and not responding to. It comes from a place of me really struggling to TR someone who won't engage and casually throw out reads, or some kind of flash impression take. I've invited floo on at least 4 or 5 different occasions to pop in with a quick, low effort post, giving flash impressions on any number of topics. I've never even had them addressed. If Floo finds me scummy, and doesn't want to bother talking to scum, then I guess I could understand that, but they havn't put forward anything along those lines. Maybe it just isn't their playstyle. But then just tell me that. I feel like I'm begging for a sign that they are towny, and in their most recent post, they say that they edit themselves into silence a lot, and just don't post when they feel like the answer is obvious. How am I supposed to read someone when they don't really give me anything but themselves at their most curated? That is my struggle right now with the slot.

My suspicion mostly comes from asking myself if scum could carefully create the kinds of posts Floo has been making. The answer, so far, is yes. I am putting this in contrast with my read on Prism's interactions with the moderator, the palpable anxiety, the intensity they are trying to reign in to prove a point, the town cohession stuff, and while yes, I could see all of this being a massive brain act of Prism the GOD SCUM...it would be so goddamn angleshooty to make like, 3 memes about the moderator and their towngame that I just can't credit it happening with all that much frequency.

The only suspicions I have from their actual posts I will try to track down when I'm off mobile to quote. But from memory, they are:
1. The fact that their case on Salsa included citing a metadive of a game, where in my opinion, after reviewing the game, they misrepresented Salsa's play that game to make it seem like it was different than it was in this game.
2. Today's two early posts, which both came in and shaded Prism immediately. Prism called it out before I could, but I was online when they were posted, and they pinged me like crazy. They are atypical of floo's normal posting pattern, and just straight shade.
3. Their lack of interactivity on a large number of slots. I can read your progression; I can read flow trap's progression, even though it's all chaos and madness and is like making out with a shoggoth sometimes. Same with prism. I hope you can see mine. I can't do that with floo.

So TLDR; while I don't disagree with a single thing you posted, spartian, I want you to look at the slot holistically, beyond just the gamesolving, +town nature of the posts they have made, in the context of all the posts they have not made. I know reading someone based on what is missing is kinda bad, and I've tried to give examples of the few times I feel like their content hasn't supported a TR on the slot, though I'm not discounting any of the towny moments you brought up. My biggest fear with townFloo would be that this is, in fact, just their posting style and it's NAI, and I'm just over here LHFing again for the millionth time.

and unfortunately, at this stage, you will also have to convince me that Prism is scum here. because that's the only way from my POV that floo+you are both town.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3-5

This is not a volcano. It is Kirkjufell mountain on Snæfellsnes Peninsula. It is intermixed with glacial and interglacial-stage sedimentary rocks full of fossils, as well as layers of lava.

floo

(1): Prism

Not Voting

(4): flow trap, floo, Spartan117, quiet

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: February 9, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-02-09 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[flow trap]

Am out atm but it's from you posting simultaneously, can't blitz, post was more for quiet. 0 chance Spartan shows up EoD to potentially flip you Day 2

Would that include Flow+Quiet/Quiet+Spartan? as well

[quiet]

@flow trap the only remaining mechanically possible teams are:
Flow trap+floo
spartian+floo
quiet+floo

prism+spartan
prism+flow trap
prism+quiet

floo+prism but honestly why so many better ways to win, I discount this entirely.

All other teams hammer floo and win.

[quiet]

1. The fact that their case on Salsa included citing a metadive of a game, where in my opinion, after reviewing the game, they misrepresented Salsa's play that game to make it seem like it was different than it was in this game.

Also, I re-reviewed the metatake, and feel like I might have been somewhat unfair in my reaction. In the game that floo metadived on Salsa, salsa did post with less frequency, and didn’t show as intense of an emotional range; that being said, there are still a lot of similarities, and I don’t know if I agree with the conclusion. I could still see it as someone searching for a frame, but it pings me less intensely than it did on my first read. I’ll back off on this point a little in the interest of being as fair as possible.

My case is more PoE than anything else at this stage.

[quiet]

I'm here. Been busy lately, but I've seen all the flips and finished reading D2. Will read D3 (hopefully) but here are my thoughts on the flips:

Interesting that the Mafia team here prefers to kill widely townread players instead of aggressive posters. That suggests that the scum have the confidence, determination, and perceived skill to attack and defend well in LYLO or other high-stakes situations. Perhaps because they are the aggressive players themselves.

This. This is shady.

Also their next post.

[quiet]

SCUMPOOL Order of confidence is Prism least -> Fred -> fairy most
fairyprincess69: Salsabil Faria didn't want to discuss possible scumreads on her and was overdefensive. Avoided reading Enchant, while voting Fredrick for a long time (end of D1 into all of D2 pre-sub) without making a legitimate push. As I've noted before her reads looked surface-level, the best example of this is automatically taking contributing a lot as an assumed townlean/read. fairy is playing better, and he can discuss where Sal wouldn't. I didn't notice any fairy proper posts that look exceptionally towny. Fairy proper also looked like Prism's second vote, in that his reads are similar to Prism's, and any apparent difference does not translate into a vote Prism doesn't want. Whereas quiet offers some uniqueness and just conversation that I don't see in fairy. In conclusion, Sal proper is scumlean, fairy is null, overall scumlean.

This was floos’s EOD day2 read. Does scumFloo murder salsaFairy after a) they don’t want to vote floo and b) floo publicly SRs them?

[quiet]

*the above post is not shady, the post after 1867 is shady. To clarify.

[flow trap]

Ok, Floo, you may not be able to convince Prism but you might be able to convince Quiet & I so give it your best

[floo]

Hello, I'm back and reading the thread. Currently at page 71, reading some later posts that catch my attention with regards to voting.

@Quiet your question on 1769. My gut can't say with too much confidence. flow trap would be the favorite in terms of gut.

Assuming Prism is scum (which I will do since if Prism is town, this game is already lost), I don't see quiet being a partner. Relying on flow trap to provide you the final 5p ELO vote, really? They'd rather keep fairy alive to vote me. Thus I see a >2/3 chance (in other words, more likely than a random choice) that either Spartan or flow is Prism's scumpartner, who is waiting in the background for quiet's 2nd vote on me, then they will have hammer me.

Spartan the more likely partner for him and Prism avoiding each other more. Spartan's reads on me feel more pockety, as in unnatural. They would only stated after the Sal push started; I don't see how me writing essays gets Spartan being silent on the floo read to "oh he's my strongest townread." flow trap, he could be an actor, but his progression from the early D1 townread on me to an eventual preference over Prism (even though both sound town), is more natural. Plus Spartan is more likely to get away with a bus. One reason to think Spartan is the town is that he has been more apt at materializing and hard-arguing a push, but he doesn't seem too confident in his push in not voting Fred until later D2 and suspecting quiet for some time.

[floo]

The first is talking about a world in which Prism is scum

The second is talking about the world at large.

I am the person who stood in the way of Salsabil slot getting voted yesterday. That slot was 100% voteable if I'm scum, and much more difficult if I'm not.

I'm at work and will get to you later quiet but I touched on Spartan/floo in and 1712/1776

In effect saying, floo's point is invalid because I am town.

[Prism]

Am out atm but it's from you posting simultaneously, can't blitz, post was more for quiet. 0 chance Spartan shows up EoD to potentially flip you Day 2

Would that include Flow+Quiet/Quiet+Spartan? as well

At the time of the post, Quiet had not yet checked in, ie. a scumteam with quiet could not yet have blitzed.

Quiet posted shortly thereafter, all 3 of you were around, and no blitz=Yes, scum is now confirmed to be in me/floo unless one of you doesn't know how to coordinate a blitz (In which case: Set a specific time for both of you to post, use time.is to synch down to the second)

[Prism]

The first is talking about a world in which Prism is scum

The second is talking about the world at large.

I am the person who stood in the way of Salsabil slot getting voted yesterday. That slot was 100% voteable if I'm scum, and much more difficult if I'm not.

I'm at work and will get to you later quiet but I touched on Spartan/floo in and 1712/1776

In effect saying, floo's point is invalid because I am town.

This is gross misrepresentation. Your bolded quotes in conjunction imply that I shot fairyprincess69 because he was widely townread/that I did not think I could get him voted.

If you are town, it is absolutely conceivable that I can get fairyprincess69 voted out, even if not guaranteed. You can vote them without me doing anything. They are not a widely townread slot at all if I, the scum, am the only one really defending it going into 5 way Elo.

In contrast, if you are mafia and I am town, it is very difficult for you to actually really the votes to get them voted out.

Your second quote is yours, and is blatantly targeted at me with the last sentence. The first sentence makes no sense to begin with from a town-floo perspective, because again, fairyprincess was

not a widely townread slot

if you are town, especially not if I'm mafia.

If you're worried about me making the NK you don't have to.

That kill is outright against

my philosophy

for playing the mafia alignment, which is

explicitly shooting people that I think won't get voted

. I'll try to dig up a few posts that confirm that if you want.

Still unclear to me why you (quiet) think the kill doesn't make sense. I get that you said you're thinking on it still but that's a strong claim.

Interesting that the

Mafia team here prefers to kill widely townread players

instead of aggressive posters. That suggests that the scum have the confidence, determination, and perceived skill to attack and defend well in LYLO or other high-stakes situations. Perhaps because they are the aggressive players themselves.

This is a nice roundabout way of calling me scum lmao, proud of you

(bold added)

hmm