TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Creature]

Can we even count on the scumteam being a bunch of beeboys?

[Augustus Caesar]

*apology hug and gif*

Spoiler:

you should just spew your thoughts in short form whenever you have them. if you have a thought about the game, send it out there! it doesn't need to be presented or fully coherent ya know, even small takes or reads help. I've had a semi mental block about this game as well, but I'm gonna overcome it starting NOW

[Augustus Caesar]

I agree that 829 is pretty town-indicative for xofelf

Then Summer it is?

I think she's more demotivated over scummy

[Augustus Caesar]

Can we even count on the scumteam being a bunch of beeboys?

So that'd be Summer and The Bulge? If only...

Deas could be scum but I can't vote him in good faith because I don't actually have reasons, it's still entirely a gutread. Do I vote a gutread which I can't convince people of? It doesn't seem realistic or productive

[xofelf]

*wrinkles nose* Summer, why would you ever put a vote on a wagon you don't believe in? What is the point of that? What. At least Creature and Adorable had their own actual reasons for it, yours is gross and nonexistent.

Also, Adorable, what I meant more was I think I would be more surprised if you didn't vote me when there was a chance considering most of our interactions have been more of the adversarial sort. In actuality, I think you putting a vote on me raises my opinion of you as it is consistent with how you've been so far.

[Augustus Caesar]

xofelf, want to lend me a hand on The Bulge and give them some more motivation to come back and do things?

[Creature]

So that'd be Summer and The Bulge? If only...

Unless the game has a bunch of obvscum as the scumteam, we're probably getting slowrolled if we keep this apathy.

[xofelf]

xofelf, want to lend me a hand on The Bulge and give them some more motivation to come back and do things?

As in vote him? Maybe. Like, having a bunch of votes doesn't always motivate people to engage. I know I've had a lot of votes on me just make me not want to bother and I don't want to give anybody else any further reasons to feel demotivated by this game. But maybe actually giving him specifics to address will be more effective?

[Augustus Caesar]

oh oh oh
so
Deus

Why I still think RCEnigma is scum:

In summary, the posts made by RCE to me are indicative, not of someone who is trying to actually work out what's going on in the game, but of someone trying to post content and look like they're doing stuff. Obviously town want to post content too, but the first priority is actually deciding "what do I think is happening here? Who is town? Who is scum?" As scum in RCE's position, replacing into a slot under pressure, the priority is more along the lines of "quick! I need to look like I'm town and solving!"

The priorities are different.

I believe RCE's posting fits into the "quick! I need to look like I'm town and solving category".

Firstly, in 721, he comes up with a shortlist poe of three people, from the first 7 pages of the game. I believe this to be incredibly unnatural. Firstly, because of coming up with a poe team from the first 7 pages of the game when there's much more than that and he clearly hasn't caught up. But why as town are you even making yourself come up with a scumteam of 3 7 pages into a catchup anyway. The most likely explanation for this is so that he's looking like he's scumhunting, rather than natural scumhunting itself.

Similarly 722 reverts to commenting on how many scum are on the wagon, which is superficial and one of the easiest things to talk about as scum.

Consistent with my thoughts on the above is RCE's focus on the push of Adorable. If he was actually interested in reading me, a quick ISO (I don't have that many posts) would reveal my reasons for voting Adorable and also my pattern of going hard on pressuring people and re-evaluating my reads (examples being Adorable and Aristophanes). My approach this game has very clearly been to be aggressive, which RCE has noted, but I think the attempts to twist it as agenda-driven don't hold up with what I have posted. My coming around to a townread on Adorable was influenced by Peta's post, but with both Adorable and Aristophanes, there was still substantial suspicion and pressure from the game in general when I formed a townread. And I believe RCE has either ignored or hasn't thought to look for evidence that contradicts his thinking in relation to my slot. Similarly, he has ISO'd random people like Sirius but not me, despite being suspicious of my intimidation tactics. It doesn't fit with what I expect from town here.

I don't see anything in RCE's posts that is inconsistent with what I expect from scum in this position. Not all scum are going to be like beeboy and not post. Scum are supposed to try and look town, they're supposed to produce content and avoid being eliminated. This is exactly what I think RCE is doing.

^you landed a big case on RCE explaining all the reasons you thought he was scum. He was last in your reads and you seemed pretty confident about it.

he then claims, and you immediately unvote:

UNVOTE:

following this, he is in your "don't want to elim" pool. You try and find a new wagon in Summer, but the thing about this that bothers me is that you don't even provide reasoning for

why

RCE shouldn't be the elim today. You treat it as if it's an unspoken rule that a roleclaim like that should be given a night.

People I don't want to elim today:

Sirius, Aristophanes, Creature, xofelf, Adorable, xRECKONERx, RCEnigma (there's no real point in an elimination here right now to be honest, regardless of read on the slot)

The rest are potential options in my mind.

Summer Nights is the slot that I feel most indifferent about right now. Pushing there is kind of low value because she's not even really here, but it also feels like the most comfortable place for a vote. And peta voting there is eerie because it was the first thought in my mind when I unvoted as well and a lot of the reasons he has put forward are similar to what I have been thinking.

VOTE: Summer Nights

We then have this post:

I feel like I'm the only one that actually finds Summer's reaction to the wagon not very alignment-indicative?

Also I don't really care if RCE is eliminated and in some ways it would be a relief to have it be over but I don't know if I can bring myself to do it because I still am of the opinion that if you can test a claim then may as well test it. I was as gung-ho about eliminating RCE as anyone and I still think he is most likely scum but aaaahh why did he have to claim that?

Where I'm at:

[Town]-- Aristophanes - Adorable, xRECKONERx, xofelf -- petapan, Sirius9121 - Augustus Caesar -- Creature, Datisi, The Bulge - [NULL] -- Summer Nights ---- ???RCEnigma??? -- [Scum]

This is a general guide of my reads not taking into account RCE flip possibilities.

Main things of note are that petapan has jumped to a more solid townread for me. I feel a bit underwhelmed by Creature, Datisi and The Bulge currently for various reasons and am considering scum in that group. And yeah, I don't see much town in Summer's posting.

I've been going gungho on voting out RCE anyway, and you come back and say "I don't really care if RCE is eliminated". but then why did you unvote with such confidence and find another wagon without even discussing or commenting the claim? that tells me in your mind, it absolutely gives RCE a night, and that you didn't feel the need to even explain why to others.

You also don't attempt to talk me down or argue that RCE should be given a night, you just let it happen despite you clearly being of the opinion that he should from you unvote/vote on Summer. why? I think it might be because you're his scum buddy that doesn't want to go as far as to actually defend him and make yourself look really bad the next day if I get the elim through (or the day after if he dies day 2 when there's no extra kill on night 1)

VOTE: Deus

[Creature]

VOTE: DeasVail

[Creature]

Kinda annoyed rn

[Creature]

I need to join more mafia games

[Augustus Caesar]

UNVOTE:

okay, was keeping this read somewhere in the back pocket but i hashed this one out with the hivemind a little bit earlier today so i'm more comfortable outing it

the feeling is that summer nights came into the game eagerly fluffing and RPing with hectic to, like, find footing but just hasn't done much after. she has outed a few townreads but they feel very shallow in their reasoning and static in their movement, i don't get a sense they're being updated and re-evaluated as the thread moves as much. she's lacking in any insight. like 346 saying she could "go for are" because he hasn't "done too much" is not good reasoning, but also a little soft, tentative, like it's reaching out to explore whether it's an acceptable push. also, the paranoia toward datisi in 417 just feels fake, it doesn't feel truly as much like she's really fearful of being fooled by datisi again as much as she's

acting

paranoid of him to seem town and maybe pocket him a little bit. i don't know hw to explain that in the sense that she talks about being afraid of him in a fairly over the top way but doesn't really question him or critically examine what he's saying.

there's also the thing where she makes gestures toward generating content from beeboy's replacement in 428 and 467 but she has not really engaged with RCE at all (and has instead fallen into prod range)

i held back in the feeling she mught just be starting slow and she'd be more readable as the game went on but given the claim i want to vote here

VOTE: summer nights

People I don't want to elim today:

Sirius, Aristophanes, Creature, xofelf, Adorable, xRECKONERx, RCEnigma (there's no real point in an elimination here right now to be honest, regardless of read on the slot)

The rest are potential options in my mind.

Summer Nights is the slot that I feel most indifferent about right now. Pushing there is kind of low value because she's not even really here, but it also feels like the most comfortable place for a vote. And peta voting there is eerie because it was the first thought in my mind when I unvoted as well and a lot of the reasons he has put forward are similar to what I have been thinking.

VOTE: Summer Nights

there's also this ordering

[Augustus Caesar]

to summarise:

>dues was VERY confident RCE was scum. last in his reads, and provided a scumcase on him
>dues unvotes as soon as RCE claims. he provides no explanation for why the claim should be given a night
>dues follows a vote onto Summer
>dues is not present while I am arguing that RCE should still die
>he now apparently doesn't really care if RCE is eliminated, and didn't attempt to discuss it with me or others at all


I think this is how a RCE partner handles this situation to a tee

[Creature]

I need to join more mafia games

Aw fuck replacement queue is empty

[Augustus Caesar]

In my mind, for RCE's claim to overcome Dues's desire to kill him due to his strong scumread on him, there needs to be VERY good reason that RCE's claim should be given a night. Reason that Dues should be able to articulate on and should be willing to discuss. The fact he doesn't care to discuss it or argue tells me it's because it'd look too scummy to, since he knows RCE eventually flips scum, and would rather not deal with that association. so he's willing to follow peta on Summer and unvote Dues without giving any reason why, but not willing to go any further than that and actually argue with me on killing RCE

[Creature]

I'm doing DeasVail for DGB

[Augustus Caesar]

xofelf, want to lend me a hand on The Bulge and give them some more motivation to come back and do things?

As in vote him? Maybe. Like, having a bunch of votes doesn't always motivate people to engage. I know I've had a lot of votes on me just make me not want to bother and I don't want to give anybody else any further reasons to feel demotivated by this game. But maybe actually giving him specifics to address will be more effective?

I think people react to pressure differently. A lot of players as scum will feel the pressure and play worse under it, while as town there's more potential for people to feel motivated to show everyone they're town, and spew more unfiltered thoughts that can be recognised as such. Mafia can never spew those unfiltered thoughts due to being informed about everyone's alignment.

A vote on Dues would be helpful!

[Augustus Caesar]

I'm doing DeasVail for DGB

Nice

[Creature]

God if everybody now actively starts to ignore the game once again.

[Datisi]

VOTE: deasvail

[Creature]

Feels like it still misses something

Maybe someone with a ridiculous amount of free time

[Augustus Caesar]

Yeah, so Dues. I wanna hear why:

RCE's claim was enough for you to unvote
Why you didn't bother to discuss the claim at the time
Why you didn't bother to argue with me on killing RCE, or give opposition to it in your last post of the day
Why you said you were fine with a RCE elim if you unvoted

[Creature]

VOTE: deasvail

Are you meh about the wagon a la Summer or totally thumbs up for it?

[Datisi]

VOTE: deasvail

Are you meh about the wagon a la Summer or totally thumbs up for it?

i think there's decent enough reason to vote there. am i totally thumbs up? not quite, no. but i feel the "gut-scum, logic-town" read on deas, and i'm fine giving a hand to the people that i actively townread for a wagon that has sketchy associates with the flipped scum.