Raw, Unfiltered, UPICK Game Over !

[Marky Mark]

Morning uncrowned, good timing

[Uncrowned]

This logic is weird. "Thing that both town and scum can do" doesn't mean "NAI". If it's more likely as scum than town, it should push people towards a scumread, and vice versa. There are very few things that only town or scum can '100% do'; if there were then mafia would be a lot easier, wouldn't it?

Right.

But *why* is it more likely for scum to do what I'm doing than town would be? That still hasn't been answered yet.

If you even want to go into iffy self-meta territory, I could argue this as being more town indicative for me, as this is something I've done in several town games during the early game while never having done it in a scum game.

But that's surface level at best. The fact is this quite easily comes from either alignment, and this wagon being based on it is nonsense and contains at minimum 2 scum, I'd wager.

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: Uncrowned

I will bah bah eh-like a sheep.

Hey guys, look. Someone sheeping a wagon.

Clear scum. Let's elim them.

I mean yeah, I agree naked votes are never great as its hard to get a feel for the slot's thought process behind the vote

BUT.... I think you are being slightly disingenuous here. There's a big difference between
1.) An active player updating their vote after the person they were voting is replaced

and

2.) You entering the game reasonably far through with a naked vote and no other commentary/analysis

[Marky Mark]

But *why* is it more likely for scum to do what I'm doing than town would be? That still hasn't been answered yet.

As others have mentioned, scum tend to care more about looking town then actual townies do. It's certainly something I have seen scum do in previous games to try and rationalise/defend their actions

[Uncrowned]

Have you read Chkflp's ISO at all or are you just talking out of your ass?

They are the exact same thing and if you're SRing me, you are 1000% SRing them too.

[Uncrowned]

How is my first vote the act of a scum who would care about looking town, exactly?

I'm not seeing your thought process here at all.

[Uncrowned]

How is my first vote the act of a scum who would care about looking town, exactly?

I'm not seeing your thought process here at all.

[Uncrowned]

Your points are literally contradicting each other now.

There is no case on me. The wagon is crap and the PoE should be the people on it.

[Uncrowned]

Also Vax is probably good here given the reaction to my wagon. I like.

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Uncrowned

I will bah bah eh-like a sheep.

Hey guys, look. Someone sheeping a wagon.

Clear scum. Let's elim them.

I actually wanna TR this lol.

Your points are literally contradicting each other now.

There is no case on me. The wagon is crap and the PoE should be the people on it.

Are you seriously expecting cases? On page 6 is it?

How about refuting my points, lets stir some conversation up.

Chkflip, why the sheep?

[Marky Mark]

Have you read Chkflp's ISO at all or are you just talking out of your ass?

They are the exact same thing and if you're SRing me, you are 1000% SRing them too.

Mate, you need to calm down. There's no need to talk to me like that :S

Entering the game with a naked vote and nothing else is clearly different to having a bunch of posts (true, a lot of fluff, but also some content) and then updating a vote with a naked vote. It's still not a great look for chkflip, but it is not the same context at all as your opening post.

How is my first vote the act of a scum who would care about looking town, exactly?

I'm not seeing your thought process here at all.

You dropped your vote, you got more heat than you imagined you would for it, you then wrote a massive second post trying to justify your first one and then carry on in later posts trying to rationalise how town!you would never have made that first post. That feels to me like someone who actually cares a lot about looking town.

Your points are literally contradicting each other now.

There is no case on me. The wagon is crap and the PoE should be the people on it.

As above, I don't see any particular contradiction between your first post trying to lay low and avoid saying too much and then subsequently trying hard to rationalise it away when it drew heat. I could be mistaken ofc, but your behaviours so far feel more likely to come from a place of scum than town.

[Marky Mark]

Still keen to hear back from both Vax and Not Known on the questions I asked them btw

[Uncrowned]

you got more heat than you imagined you would for it,

How much do you actually believe this?

[Uncrowned]

If you even want to go into iffy self-meta territory, I could argue this as being more town indicative for me, as this is something I've done in several town games during the early game while never having done it in a scum game.

Also very interesting how you entirely ignore this.

As soon as something pops up that threatens your paper thin reason for voting me, you immediately go in other routes. Doesn't really read like someone who is uninformed to me.

Any actual uninformed person would either do research on the meta or ask for me to show examples of me doing this at the start of my town games.

So Mark is informed AKA scum and at the moment Chkflp is decent partner equity.

Let's elim between there, squad.

[Uncrowned]

How about refuting my points, lets stir some conversation up.

I can't really "refute" you calling my response to Mark an overresponse. That's just an opinion that I can't really change.

All I can say to that is that's how my posting style can be sometimes.

[Uncrowned]

Any actual uninformed person would either do research on the meta or ask for me to show examples of me doing this at the start of my town games.

On a sidenote, an argument against this could be "but town are lazy" which is absolutely true. But given how Mark is top posting and is engaging rather actively with me, this seems pretty out of character if he's town.

[Marky Mark]

How much do you actually believe this?

Don't shade me please. Given that you went from a first post with a naked vote to a short essay for your second post, actually yeah I do think this. I've seen players drop naked votes for first votes before (obvs), but they also tend to be the type to stay on the fringes of the game, not then subequently go to such lengths to defend/rationalise their actions

[Uncrowned]

Dang, L-2. Careful with that wagon, Eugene.

Oh man I forgot how gross this was.

"Hey guys, L-2 watch out watch out but lemme stay on the wagon."

[Uncrowned]

You're criminally underestimating my self-awareness as both alignments.

I know exactly how I would be perceived for voting like that, especially when it's on Page 4 and not any earlier.

[Marky Mark]

If you even want to go into iffy self-meta territory, I could argue this as being more town indicative for me, as this is something I've done in several town games during the early game while never having done it in a scum game.

Also very interesting how you entirely ignore this.

As soon as something pops up that threatens your paper thin reason for voting me, you immediately go in other routes. Doesn't really read like someone who is uninformed to me.

Any actual uninformed person would either do research on the meta or ask for me to show examples of me doing this at the start of my town games.

So Mark is informed AKA scum and at the moment Chkflp is decent partner equity.

Let's elim between there, squad.

Lol. I didn't delve into this because:
a.) as you said yourself self-meta is iffy and the fact that you have brought it up means that you would want me to find it
and
b.) as a rule of thumb, I don't trawl through each slot's playing history in search of whether theyve shown a specific behaviour in previous games

I don't think anyone else has done any meta-delving in this game, so from my pov you are singling me out for not doing something that nobody else is doing either

[Marky Mark]

You're criminally underestimating my self-awareness as both alignments.

I know exactly how I would be perceived for voting like that, especially when it's on Page 4 and not any earlier.

Ok, lets assume you knew what you were doing and it was a deliberately provocative play. This fmpov makes your behaviour feel inconsistent - in your OP you aren't worried about looking town, but you then subsequently come across as caring very much about that, eg in your second and third posts.

[Uncrowned]

I'm singling you out because you're the most actively engaged and I would assume the one who most strongly believes I am scum.

You can't talk about "let's work together" and all that LAMISTy stuff while actively and blatantly ignoring the most clear evidence that my initial vote was at best town indicative for me, or at worst completely null in determining my alignment.

[Uncrowned]

I wouldn't say I'm worried about how I'm coming off at all. I'm just playing.

Do you really think I'm hitting panic mode after I get a couple votes on me in the early game when in general, as I said about your wagon, these early game wagons usually don't amount to elims? If this was a newbie and I was playing in my first ever scum-game, sure that could be plausible. Here, though? It doesn't make much sense.

[Uncrowned]

Also, being self-aware doesn't necessarily mean you care about how you're perceived. It just means you know or have a sense of how you're going to be perceived for making certain plays/posts.

[Uncrowned]

Town: NotKnown, Vax, Porkens, Flea (?)

Scum: Mark, Cassowary, Chkflp (??? - Dependent on Mark red flip)