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[Hopkirk]

Guess who's read up to page 56? what? no. it's not Flopz, it's

HECTIC

i haven't spoken to him about them yet because he did a thoughtdump while i was playing dnd with some other folk
paraphrased:

-Hectic likes IV for how he talked to Mastina regarding her townlocking hercule as it felt like he was trying to get an understanding of the underlying thought processes/delving into it (agree)
-The above being said, likes hercule based on the way he changed from the last game not feeling forced/unnatural. He'd expect scum>scum trying to shift from his scummeta to feel somewhat unnatural/him to feel uncomfortable doing it (agreement, i think i've said this a couple of times)
-Dann feels natural and Hectic vibes with it (might need to talk about this one)
-A50s push on me is bad. it looked like he was starting with the premise i'm scum and trying to find reasons to fit it (i'll take another look at this section, but it might be worth other people looking too. i felt like he was more trolly-town after it pushing me to try and get a rise out of me more than scum afterwards, idk. will look back)
-The paranoia Oka had about Mastina politically shifting her read on him to get him to vote LLD was very nuanced. Hectic thinks this would be really hard for scum to fake. (i have some issues with this slot and don't remember the exact part hectic is talking about, will ask)
-Mastina is town. He thinks she reads as the same as in pookyvFlavor Leaf (i agree on town!mastina)
-DGB linked a scumgame where LLD was being ragey scum. She feels less fake here, he can see her faltering on confidence of her read on hercule but isn't quite wanting to give it up (following up)
-Ceph's being antagonistic to Mastina in a way that feels out of place/over the top. He keeps trying to provoke her despite Mastina continuing to ignore him (this had come across to me but this is a much better phrasing than the vague thoughts i was going through)

[Hopkirk]

I'd kinda like to see more from LLD because I still don't know what she is from her posts and I'm starting to feel like I might be 5th impostering purely based on the gamestate.

how do you both feel about those two who've pushed like 5 different counterwagons to her?

[Cephrir]

they're both quite intelligent and attractive

[Dannflor]

I vibe with them

[Hopkirk]

maybe it's only 4
hercule (7): Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst, Dannflor, Dunnstral, Cephrir
Hopkirk (3): Almost50, Cephrir, Dannflor
DrippingGoofball (5): OkaPoka, Dunnstral, Dannflor, Cephrir, the worst
the worst (6): jjh927, Winter Flakes, Titus, Cephrir, OkaPoka, Dannflor

add Oka to that now that i look at the wagons, joins at different times though
thinking more, it seems unlikely Dann and Ceph are both mafia together though, especially if LLD flips scum. like i don't think there's any chance a team of (LLD/Ceph/Dann/X) decides their best play here is to just ride or die on LLD and push a ton of counterwagons without managing to actually get the pressure off LLD?

[Hopkirk]

oh i missed this one, i thought there were more people on it. that's 5 counterwagons you've both been pushing

Dunnstral (3): innocentvillager, Cephrir, Dannflor

[Cephrir]

i would love to be on a scumteam with LLD and Dann that sounds pretty fun and you'd never catch us

[Almost50]

you were already voting me.

Really? I totally wasn't aware of it, and the mod hasn't posted any VCs lately (and one of them is not at the top of this page)

it's a bad vote

Is that a crumb? I'll totally take it for one.

UNVOTE:

Now tell me this: Assuming I am TOWN (I know it's hatf for you to consider no matter what your true alignment is, but let's just say that I was somehow confirmed a Townie).. Now WHO is likely to be Scum (I am not asking who your other SRs are. I am asking you to reread the game state assuming I am Town and assuming you got a green PM too)

[Ythan]

Is that a crumb? I'll totally take it for one.

UNVOTE:

Doesn't make me feel good about you.

[Hopkirk]

hectic agrees with a lot of things from dann and tonereads him as town
oka discussed the political thing with ceph and mastina denied it. i need to look back probably

some reworded discussion we had
hectic -leans town slightly on LLD. she did the angry BoP thing in a previous game and it's less over the top than there. also her progression/wavering on herc doesn't feel fake
me- did she do the bop there and did it work?
hectic - she replaced out when it didn't work. she did a load of all caps rageposts + her slot got voted out d1
me- asks whether he thinks she'd do it again as scum
hectic - guesses she would have learned from it, but the AtE feels more fluid
me- clarifies that i meant would she ever decide to go for it again as scum if it failed so badly last time (meaning more likely genuine rage/thought process?)
(quickly checks to confirm that LLD is the one who brought up BoP
hectic- doesn’t know if she does it as town/would need to look through more games to decide (probably unlikely as he’s not fully caught up here I’d expect). She was angrily pushing MariaR there but also acting angry at other things in a way that felt false
me- brings up death curse
hectic – kind of feels like how she was pushing noraa there
me- asks about how herc feels if we assumed town!lld tunnel compared to noraa’s response, noted that I liked herc’s reaction
hectic- agrees. Especially liked the ‘subtle frustration’ herc was showing where it felt genuine/didn’t feel like he was trying to overplay it/milk it (my wording)
Hectic is trying to understand/reread LLD

[Hopkirk]

so we both like herc, hectic isn't sure about lld and wants to review. i should probably do that as well at some point.

how do other people feel based on meta. @Mastina?

[Hopkirk]

i would love to be on a scumteam with LLD and Dann that sounds pretty fun and you'd never catch us

damn-flor, that'd be a hard team to catch. you could just have two of you trying to form a bunch of counterwagons if the third one ever got wagoned and i'd probably decide you couldn't all be scum...

you were already voting me.

Really? I totally wasn't aware of it, and the mod hasn't posted any VCs lately (and one of them is not at the top of this page)

it's a bad vote

Is that a crumb? I'll totally take it for one.

UNVOTE:

Now tell me this: Assuming I am TOWN (I know it's hatf for you to consider no matter what your true alignment is, but let's just say that I was somehow confirmed a Townie).. Now WHO is likely to be Scum (I am not asking who your other SRs are. I am asking you to reread the game state assuming I am Town and assuming you got a green PM too)

you know i townlean/townread you right now... right?

[Cephrir]

damn-flor, that'd be a hard team to catch. you could just have two of you trying to form a bunch of counterwagons if the third one ever got wagoned and i'd probably decide you couldn't all be scum...

then i could make a post like 2081 and you'd really be screwed

i know i shouldn't shitpost when i am on record thinking the page number is antitown

[AGar]

So hopkirk, what is the plan if lld is town?

Is this what we call a TMI question?

... No?

maybe it's only 4
hercule (7): Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst, Dannflor, Dunnstral, Cephrir

LLD was a counterwagon to hercule, stop trying to reframe history scum.

[Hopkirk]

damn-flor, that'd be a hard team to catch. you could just have two of you trying to form a bunch of counterwagons if the third one ever got wagoned and i'd probably decide you couldn't all be scum...

then i could make a post like 2081 and you'd really be screwed

i know i shouldn't shitpost when i am on record thinking the page number is antitown

you're one of us now

So hopkirk, what is the plan if lld is town?

Is this what we call a TMI question?

... No?

maybe it's only 4
hercule (7): Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst, Dannflor, Dunnstral, Cephrir

LLD was a counterwagon to hercule, stop trying to reframe history scum.

This is definitely coming at me from a starting position of wants to call me scum. everyone who's commented has told me the stuff you've said about me trying to start stuff is bad/actively insulting. you're taking 'counterwagon' is a word and trying to use one word I used (and people should know how I type/talk by now) without considering the actual thoughts being conveyed there. Wittgenstein would hate you.

I clearly mean like dueling wagons for that one and am including it with the counterwagons because it's another wagon with similar people to show there's been a bunch of wagons like that. instead of engaging with the logic/meaning you're choosing to jump on a word/the phrasing as 'scum' which doesn't come from good faith town as it's inherently not in good faith/trying to work things out. That's coming from a mindset of trying to say 'look hop is scum and everything he says is proof of that' which only comes from either town who's 100% (doesn't feel supported by your history)or scum who's thinking this kind of stuff is easier to attack people on than by actually engaging with the ideas

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: agar

your engagement with me in general doesn't have the slightest sense of actual engagement. It's just posturing

[Hopkirk]

anyone who was commenting before about 'x is trying to appeal to a crowd' want to comment on agar before I remember who it was and ask them directly?

[OkaPoka]

w.r.t. to wagoning a replacement - there is no point in wagoning a pending replacement, but if im going to vote there its more scarier for the replacement to come in, make a bad post and then me voting them then it is for me to be already there. is it AI? statistically its scum indicative but high minded players will shout at me for saying that.

how are you reading LLD and i need to check what you're pushing because this seems like pushing against the wagon and i thought you weren't saying you were against it

I'm still leaning town on LLD, admittedly my original towncase on LLD does not hold. Am I against an LLD wagon? IDK. I have issues with it because the arguments for it seem to be converging now on the xtoxm vote, which is surprising because the wagon started before it. All the other arguments i feel require me to believe LLD is scum before they look scummy, and nobody to me has connected the dots on why x action is a scum action. It's more "well it's not town" which I suppose can work in a PoE world but this isn't a PoE world.

why? (w.r.t. reads on LLD should be strong)

If you are going to come out swinging, people usually immediately have an opinion on you. it probably takes more work to get it back towards the middle.

do you mean the two days where i wasn't posting when you say 'recently' or before then

it was for a pretty long stretch of time where my read started to degrade. probably after the first 48 hours.

which of their points do you think are an over the top character? looking at say the post i asked LLD about earlier?

it's more of a holistic thing gameplay wise, how it is trying to gather votes on lld, openly giving townreads for agreeing with it or voting with it. that feels like too much in one direction. don't know about the other part if you want to link it again or reclarify.

if pressed to answer i could see oka being a lld buddy, he's been at least presenting himself as someone who could be persuaded to join, but when talking to im not getting the sense that he actually ever would. i also feel like he's reducing our suspicions to less than they are. it feels like he keeps saying we dont have a case, and maybe we haven't presented in a strong and convincing way why we believe in this, i think all of me/dgb/mastina have to some degree explained ourselves.

that's a little frustrating to hear. ive tried to give you guys something to be excited about explictly, being by waning LLD townread to hopefully incetivize you guys presenting a concentrated post on how you connected the dots on lld being scum, but you guys gave me the BoP argument and want to work on a dgb towncase instead of doing some analysis. look im downplaying your case because i feel like there has to be something else that you just aren't mentioning, and half of me asking you about your lld argument is to figure you out, not lld. lots of arguments are flying around but i don't feel like they get to the bone, just a summary about what lld has done this game and meta tangents. the fact remains that there are enough people that share the same concern with me w.r.t. lld's wagon where maybe its not a me problem but a you problem.


who's the wall writer now

[Cephrir]

anyone who was commenting before about 'x is trying to appeal to a crowd' want to comment on agar before I remember who it was and ask them directly?

i was unsure if him adding "scum" to the end of that was a joke or not

[Titus]

Oh cool A50 is scum. That vote on Hopkirk is really bad.

[Cephrir]

i found the unvote more offensive personally

[Almost50]

Is that a crumb? I'll totally take it for one.

UNVOTE:

Doesn't make me feel good about you.

Ask ne if I care!

[Almost50]

you know i townlean/townread you right now... right?

No, I didn't know that. Still.. who is Scum (is: Singular.. one name)? Thanks

[Almost50]

Oh cool A50 is scum. That vote on Hopkirk is really bad.

The vote or the UNvote? Also, glad to see we're back to our norms.

[Almost50]

i found the unvote more offensive personally

I wouldn't EVER want to offend you, Sir. But I'm a monkey, and monkeys do what monkeys do.