TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Dannflor]

VOTE: ythan
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: titus

[mastina]

-The paranoia Oka had about Mastina politically shifting her read on him to get him to vote LLD was very nuanced.

It may be nuanced but I'm not convinced it is nuanced in a way that is innately town. After all, anyone who uses the FL buzzwords is disproportionately likely to subscribe to the FL playstyle--including the false generation of this sort of 'nuanced' read.

-DGB linked a scumgame where LLD was being ragey scum. She feels less fake here, he can see her faltering on confidence of her read on hercule but isn't quite wanting to give it up (following up)

While LLD is less ragey this game, that is not a towntell. LLD is no more a chronic rager as scum than as town and she has plenty of rage-lite/free games as both alignments. Her faltering of confidence on hercule is something which I feel is more likely to come from her as scum with the way she handled it rather than as town. This one I in part am deliberately holding off from describing due to LLD not having posted the amount necessary for me to describe why I think this, but after LLD has posted more if you remind me about it, I will come back to this and explain exactly why I think that a town-LLD doesn't back down here or IF she does, the way she does so is entirely different from how she has done so here.

Basically it comes down to LLD doing something which looks town (oh right I forgot, in this game I need to use the buzzword and say LLD is doing something performative), rather than actually reacting the way she would as town. There's two ways I would expect her to be acting here if she were town, but LLD did neither, at least not yet.

[OkaPoka]

xtoxm please tell flavor leaf that mastina thinks me n him are similar, its an absolutely hilarious comparison

only the second funniest post made on this page

[mastina]

VOTE: agar
your engagement with me in general doesn't have the slightest sense of actual engagement. It's just posturing

I have a slightly different take that's along the same lines; AGar's hostility this game feels over the top. I realize AGar was hostile last game in a manner similar to this game, but the more and more hostility I see from AGar this game, the more and more it feels like a deliberate caricature on his part; the more and more it's beginning to feel like he's deliberately playing to mimic, or at least channel, the hostility he held last game in a way that he knows will generate cheap, easy, early, towncred.

I don't know AGar at all; he probably will blow up at me for this post with a dressing down of me with a level of hostility matched by his posting thusfar. But I'm increasingly thinking the initial vibe I got of him being similar to last game was either just a personality thing or was him deliberately channeling the energy there and once he started to channel that energy, he didn't know how to stop.

[mastina]

this isn't a PoE world.

Isn't it tho? (I just spent 15 minutes looking for a quote where I remembered you saying something about solving the game through POE but I couldn't find it so might be mistaken, which would weaken my point from instead of being 'you yourself said it', to more of a generic philosophical debate. If you yourself had said it, no debate needed, I'd be right that this is a POE world with you yourself having said so, but with me unable to track it down and thus maybe mistaken, I'll settle for a generic philosophical debate.)

POE is literally the strongest tool available to the town, and multiple, widely townread, players share a VERY similar poe. Some are wider than others and most aren't identical, but a lot have more or less similar lists.

So I'd argue we very much

are

in a poe world.

[OkaPoka]

sure i agree and i think poe is op as fuck but rn i need a better reason than "not townie" to vote lld is my point

[OkaPoka]

but also whatever ill let lld defend herself i literally should not care about defending her at all if she's not going to post more

[Ythan]

i literally should not care about defending her at all if she's not going to post more

Yeah it's strange.

[OkaPoka]

its incredible the lengths i go to avoid future work ythan, absolutely incredible

[jjh927]

Yo Mastina

Read this game regarding Titus

[mastina]

Yo Mastina
Read this game regarding Titus

Are you...trying to prove my point in regards to Titus???

Because that game is immediately obviously Titus-town. It's her towngame immediately and transparently so, and I can point to the town factors that make her town which are utterly absent from this game.

[jjh927]

Please do then

That game threw me off thinking I could read Titus

[DrippingGoofball]

@mastina re:Titus - she is unlikely to make it far into the game, and is pretty harmless. That's why my vote remains on LLD.

[jjh927]

You have my full attention

Convince me to vote for someone who is not replacing out

[Xtoxm]

I have decided to do grace you with a readslist but in a new format because I have decided that henceforth I will be either chumreading, ummreading, or scumreading people. I believe this system is self explanatory.

Chums

mastina
Xtoxm

Okapoka
Dannflor

hercule
DrippingGoofball

Winter flakes

InnocentVillager
Hopkirk

Almost50

Umms

Titus
LLD
Cephrir
Ythan

Scums

the worst
AGar
Dunnstral

Disclaimer: The categories of this readslist do not represent a level of confidence on any of these reads. Reads are not ordered by confidence. This is not actually a hard commitment to the CUS system because future me might decide it's stupid.

you townread 6 of the 7 slots that have spent significant time on the lld wagon
join us?

what do you think scum have been doing if lld is town?

[Titus]

you townread 6 of the 7 slots that have spent significant time on the lld wagon
join us?

I townread a lot of the LLD wagon. That doesn't make you right. I majorly scumread mastina, who is shading me to ensure her wagon goes through on LLD.

For instance, mastina says I haven't reached out to my TRs. I have reached out to DGB. I reached out to OkaPoka. That's how the worst wagon revitalized.

P.S. I think you're town too now.

[Titus]

what do you think scum have been doing if lld is town?

Scum are largely in the passive players like the worst and A50. mastina's fighting like hell to get vocal players eliminated because her partners aren't vocal.

[Titus]

Titus, representing Quick Attack - Town
innocentvillager, representing Class of 2175 - null could be scum or townbeard
mastina, representing Mask Your Worries - scum
AGar, representing Pa-Ni-Nis - null
Hopkirk, representing Team 'Team 'Team' Team' Team - town
Xtoxm, representing Loyal Servants - town
Dannflor, representing Whatever Farm Animal of War - lean town
the worst, representing Daylight Savings Time - scum
Winter Flakes, representing The Four Seasons - lean town
Lady Lambdadelta, representing Mana Crypt - town
Luca Blight hercule, representing Onlyregfans - lean town
OkaPoka, representing Suicide Squad - town
DrippingGoofball, representing The Fakeclaim Processing Department -town
jjh927, representing All your Scummies belong to us - town
Cephrir, representing Maybe the Real Mods... - town
Ythan, representing Half a Good Team Plus Two - null
Almost50, representing Basterd Modding - scum
Dunnstral, representing Perfect Grammar - lean scum

Follow this

[Dunnstral]

what do you think scum have been doing if lld is town?

Scum are largely in the passive players like the worst and A50. mastina's fighting like hell to get vocal players eliminated because her partners aren't vocal.

Weren't you the one asking people not to intercept your questioning earlier?

[Xtoxm]

that's a little frustrating to hear. ive tried to give you guys something to be excited about explictly, being by waning LLD townread to hopefully incetivize you guys presenting a concentrated post on how you connected the dots on lld being scum, but you guys gave me the BoP argument and want to work on a dgb towncase instead of doing some analysis. look im downplaying your case because i feel like there has to be something else that you just aren't mentioning, and half of me asking you about your lld argument is to figure you out, not lld. lots of arguments are flying around but i don't feel like they get to the bone, just a summary about what lld has done this game and meta tangents. the fact remains that there are enough people that share the same concern with me w.r.t. lld's wagon where maybe its not a me problem but a you problem.

i'm difficult to read this game?
im hiding things??

Spoiler: for okas eyes only

okay oka i went back thru our disc looking for the times we've spoken abt lld which was a lot of effort btw cus its gigantic at this point

its all paraphrased even my own stuff

auro comments that lld keeps attacking hercule but without giving reasons. scumleans lld.
i mention that im in general agreement with him that lld's push is weak/silly, and im confused why so many people are joining the hercule wagon

auro talks about how eliminating hercule is hugely beneficial for scum and pushing there is suspicious
i nod in agreement

auro comments that he'd be alright with a bop on lld
i say that i found that post really scummy, its over-bargainy and that those kind of offers never get followed through on, if lld mis elims OBVIOUSLY she's going to continue resisting her elim after
auro thinks its a town tell, and asks me if its ever happened before
i say i dont know

lld makes some kind of posting saying she forgot agar is playing and auro thinks this is town indicative for some reason

auro notes that lld still hasnt explained the hercule read and wants me to press it

auro has done some meta research on lld, and shows me the link i showed a50 earlier. notes that its the same basic thing lld is doing here

auro thinks lld is acting in a exaggerated way

i comment that it seems like lld doesnt care to have me vote herc with her

some general comments that the herc wagon is awful, and that he tr everyone who is vote lld
i agree with him

he asks me if im planning to vote lld
says he's going to perma tunnel lld if herc gets eliminated and revealed to be town
i say that i do plan to, the game is feeling a bit overbearing atm i'll do it later

auro says the behavior between lld and dann looks bad

auro says that lld is a capable enough player that she should be able to see that hercule has reacted in a town way, it's scummy that she's still trying to push it through to a kill
says that we need to be aggressive and prevent a powerwolf from eliminating a player who is clearly town

wants me to start talking about our dunn read, suggests that if lld defends dunn that could be an indication they are aligned

auro notes that lld townreads everyone who shades hercule
i comment that as we predicted, she tr dunn
i say i think there will be at least 2 mis elims before lld can go
auro disagrees, he thinks we can do it today

auro is starting to tr iv, particularly if x's suspicion on lld is correct

auro criticizes lld's discrediting of mastina

auro suggests posting our case on dunn, he think if lld is scum, and dunn town, then votes will fall on dunn easily.
i say that while i sr him more, i think lld elim will be better for the game
auro says he feels the same way

auro: noteworthy that lld asks dunn to change her mind on hercule
x: i sr the interaction
auro: why
x: the read on dunn looks manufactured, maybe its a position she's been planning to take
auro: i could see that. maybe she's realized herc wagon was an error, and wants out, and wants to elevate dunn's voice

auro: fabricating a lowering of confidence is a great way to escape from the situation. her ate is nai. tell hercule to look at scum games where lld does ate.

auro:
- scum make a plan of pushing hercule, who at the time was beginning to get townreads
- plan fails due people like mastina, dgb, us
- scum push forward with the wagon
- mastina talks about a game where lld!scum did this to xofelf
- over the top discrediting of mastina
- fabricated change of heart

i comment that one of the biggest reasons i sr lld is the way she's interacted with dunn

x: i really want to see a flip already this is taking so long
auro: lld is scum so of course its going to be slow

x: is there any chance that talk of lld's scumhunting prowess is overhyped and her reads are just wrong? im gonna take a step back, im tunneling too hard for d1

auro: if lld were town, what would we be expecting her to do here?
x: have reads that align even a little with ours?
auro: might be able to construct a case around that. situation in the game is also a factor in the lld read.
x: she already lost the bop she asked for imo. she tried to push herc wagon all the way, and im sure he's town

x: lmao lld voted us. kinda relieved after all these trs on us.
auro: yep.
x: makes me more confident in lld-scum again
auro: i think that would be how she'd react as town, too, though. oh, she's going super aggro on us. i'll be inspired is she can get us mis eliminated.
x: hope more people realise she's scum now
auro: lld is really good at utilising misrepresentation

auro: do you want to spend some time building a solid case on lld?
x: not atm

auro: dgb, mastina, herc wont move
x: im probably ok. maybe she's going for me to try and get tr, by having people talk her into voting dgb since she posted {herc, x, dgb} as the pool, ppl are more likely to tr lld if they think they're convincing her to join on dgb instead of me
auro: eh, im not sure

x: this is stupid. lld is absent, not giving reads other than bad pushes on me and herc, and getting townread for it

auro: lld looks like she's been lurking tactically, based on the timing of her post

auro: it's humorous how lld is constantly attacking credibility.

thats not quite everything but im tired of this
i dont expect this will convince you of anything but you can stop saying im hiding things now

[innocentvillager]

townbeard

hey ive voted for dunnstral and worsty at various points

titus, here are my thoughts on you and your solve:

you seem more like blanket assertion-y this game than some of your other towngames. do you feel confident that you have a good grasp of what's going on this game and that your theory is right? The sense that I get is that I have to imagine a lot of things to believe that you are correct this game; e.g. I have to believe

*LLD, hercule are both town (plausible)
*mastina is scum using IIoA desperately pushing an agenda to fan a TvT (ehhhhhh idk) because
*partners are inactives/more sideline-y like Dunnstral, A50, the worst (okay maybeeee on these 3, could be 1-2 scum in here ig), innocentvillager (wrong)

hmmm. It's not as much as I thought when I was writing it out but it still feels like you have a lot of empty confidence on multiple theories that sort of falls apart if any of them are kind of false

like, I remember when I was reading through your stuff on MC in Open 802, that was transparently someone trying to solve and I was pretty swayed by your case (whether you were WW or town I wasn't sure, but that's besides the point)

im not sure if i have a question in there, but wanted to let you know where I'm at and if you have thoughts ig

[Dunnstral]

When did it become cool to call me scum this game?

[Titus]

what do you think scum have been doing if lld is town?

Scum are largely in the passive players like the worst and A50. mastina's fighting like hell to get vocal players eliminated because her partners aren't vocal.

Weren't you the one asking people not to intercept your questioning earlier?

It was to my scumread, giving them a clear answer. That was two town discussing and I jumped in.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: ythan
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: titus

Maybe. How is Ythan different from last game/ will they ever be readable?
Why do so many people townread dgb?

[Titus]

hmmm. It's not as much as I thought when I was writing it out but it still feels like you have a lot of empty confidence on multiple theories that sort of falls apart if any of them are kind of false

If something does go wrong, I'll reasses. Right now, I have my theory of the game I stand by.