Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Bridgeburners]

heya, i'm around for a bit and catching up now

~ skitter

[Bridgeburners]

UNVOTE:
i'm not really vibing scum-isis naymore

~ skitter

[Bridgeburners]

I think more people should read people on a curve, people SR limbait for being limbait a decent amount

^^^

~ skitter

[Bridgeburners]

VOTE: dats

~ skitter

[Bridgeburners]

the vote is from both of us, incidentally

-QB

[Infinity 324]

Can either of you elaborate more on your aaron read?

[notscience]

Long day at work and another long day tomorrow.

I’ll be here tomorrow night or Monday.

[AaronFrost]

Why does your gut say there’s scum in that group?

their interactions with each other don't seem to be w/w in any world but I'm having trouble believing that they're v/v/v fsr.

That doesn't really explain why you think that since you basically just said what you said in 664 but with different wording. What in our interactions causes you to come to the conclusion of 1 scum in me/Datisi/ben?

I mean, if I knew my exact thought process behind this thought I would've explained it lol.

Usually when i make that kind of claim i have some evidence or reasoning to back it up but sure

[AaronFrost]

do you agree with 618? from my pov it felt like being nitpicked over minute unimportant details. does the knowledge of "isis has seen town!me be *not* as townie" challenge your view? and what is your read on me, anyway?

and like, i wanna disagree with that second part, bc while things have *stalled*, they definitely don't feel *stable*. most of the people are going "oh, i'm townreading too many people, i'm not scumreading anyone", and i feel that in that

economy

gamestate, things can turn around quickly. (like, look at the way your wagon popped up shortly after i gave some much less-then-stellar reasoning for it.)

Do I have to agree with all of Isis's posts in order to townread Isis? Because that's not really what my read on Isis is based on.

I feel like I haven't been able to get a good read on you this game tbh and there's some things you've done that have raised my eyebrows a bit, like your play around mine and Isis's wagons.

As for the gamestate comment, the game wasn't quite as stalled out as it is currently when you gave that read on me. Like sure things can turn around quickly but I feel like it's gonna be hard to get 5-6 people to turn around and vote for you in particular when you've been mostly townread up until this point (compared to me who's been in most people's null categories)

[implosion]

Blood meaning as a hang or something else? I want to say something about this craving for blood in your bottom tier reads and why you think such but I think I'm missing context here.

Blood as in a flip for something to work with. I feel like I can maybe do some stuff now though.

I think her posting in the last few pages shows a very natural and logical though process (some examples are 617-624, 648, 652, 669, 672) that if it comes from scum, it's very well manufactured to look natural, but

i genuinely feel like her posting has become more and more organic over time.

I also don't think the vanity vote on you is something that comes from scum when things have sort of stalled and and she could probably get away with staying on my wagon until end of day (which if she is scum would be her best chance of staying alive). It's just a weird move that doesn't make sense for scum!Isis to make in this situation.

This is an interesting thing; I haven't really read Isis's recent posts closely yet (i intend to next) but the the part i bolded is something in a vacuum that I'm not sure should actually be town-indicative. Especially in this kind of game I feel like it could be scum who started out nonchalant and then realized they had to up their game. At least, I've definitely had scum games where I've felt like there was a fire lit under my ass and I needed to change the way I was playing when I was pressured.

Although not super meaningful because this is like reading a secondary text without reading the primary source.

[implosion]

I don't really see any thought process that I don't think can be manufactured in Isis's posting. This is probably the most interesting post

idk how to explain it to you
If I can't point to a post implosion has made by the end of day 1 and say it's a townpost, implosion probably has a role PM. If I can't point to a post Datisi has made by the end of day 1 and say it's a townpost, he's probably scum.

Datisi probably has like, 2-3 townish posts I that didn't meet threshhold for specific remarks, PP has done the same, and by the curve I grade on PP is more likely to be actually town this game than Datisi.

I play all my games like this. The extent to which I acknowledge it varies. I would think everyone plays their games this way although maybe other people wait for an actual scumgame and do this storytelling paranoid "but for this person, what if this is like that time they seemed townie but for scum?" (my approach is a bit more flawed if it were applied to someone I have not seen actually roll scum, but I have been scum -with- Datisi once and felt like he made good posts)

but like, this seems like just a way Isis approaches games. I don't think it's an especially hard post for scum-her to make.

[implosion]

I mean, if I knew my exact thought process behind this thought I would've explained it lol.

i feel like every once in a while paranoia starts creeping up on me about scipio

and then he goes ahead and drops a line like this and i'm like !!!
i feel like i felt this so many times as town
how does one not townread him for it

a part of me wants to say "this is a good example of datisi being clearly town" but i guess I have made posts like this as scum before.

i do strongly agree with it being a good scipio town indicator.

[implosion]

I'm just really curious about how the isis wagon's buildup kind of feels like slogging through the swamp. Like it feels like there are as many people calling the wagon terrible as voting on it at any given time. I don't really put weight on that kind of broad-analysis thing in general but I really do wonder if we've had a real wagon on scum yet.

I also did just look at datisi's early game and i can't find the things that i thought were strongly town. I think 332 might have been one of them (although I think I thought he was town before then?) but I think that post is emblematic of the kind of interaction with the game that I was viewing as town. There's actually a lot from him that looks like it could be performative like 101 and 377. I would like to hear from skitter if she has specific reasons for voting him or if she's just shopping around.

[implosion]

I do kind of just like Aaron's posting recently. 714 just strikes me as genuinely town. And the isis unvote, and the way he talked to datisi in his last post.

i'll try to actually be online when other people are at some point soon hopefully :\

[Isis]

now, what's actually *bothering* me here is that isis did use the argument "datisi isn't as townie in this game as he was in autumnal" before, and she used it when she was scum against me.

Do you have a reason that's alignment dispositive? The way I play scum is to emulate my towngame, so that just kind of all lines up, to me.

I forgot about Why Gun, as much as I racked my brain. It does seed doubt. All the Your Turn To Die avatars were so scummy.

notscience is not even actually a low-poster/inactive, he just said he was going to be, then he's had standard activity. I thought it was weird. I guess the only scenario where it's scummy weird is when notscience has posted in a scum PT that he's gonna self impose a limit and gets to lurk but don't worry he'd prob do it as town too.
It's not super characterizable but it's super weird! like notsci feels high content to me. Though I don't remember much of the content so he's probably scum

I think I was looking at pure post count when I said that. When it comes to actual content then yeah his activity has been alright, but their posting hasn't really made me feel any type of way

Did you literally click Activity Overview and decide "that number is bad!"? I'm super mixed up between wanting to scumread you for copping out to a metric that shouldn't be matching your feelings but also resonating about how notsci's content feels. Mostly it should be the former because it's not a hard thing to resonate.

UNVOTE:

I don't think Isis is scum

I'm a coward and bad and wanna reciprocate this grlnschminkuppkreuuuuuu

VOTE: Frost

hey NM, make a readslist for me and i'll give u a hammer

- hYdra

This is not a very townmotivated post. This could die today. Which I've felt before but the main blocker is, how good do I think Datisi is at mafia or not.

She put a lot of effort into her reads and I respect that. Not fully town for me but entering that nulltown area.

*he/his

[Isis]

cool.
VOTE: isis

what made you think so and who is scum then?

I think her posting in the last few pages shows a very natural and logical though process (some examples are 617-624, 648, 652, 669, 672) that if it comes from scum, it's very well manufactured to look natural, but i genuinely feel like her posting has become more and more organic over time.

I also don't think the vanity vote on you is something that comes from scum when things have sort of stalled and and she could probably get away with staying on my wagon until end of day (which if she is scum would be her best chance of staying alive). It's just a weird move that doesn't make sense for scum!Isis to make in this situation.

It is maybe less cowardly to want to let this live today.
I think my Datisi vote is remarkably easy to characterize as a scumvote if you should like to.
The natural/logical thought process bit gives me pause. It's probably similar to why I townread Schiavetto but I'm arrogant enough to believe my scumrange is broad enough to counsel against that kind of thing. AF wouldn't have any reason to share that belief though.

implosion's idea that I'd have an easier time spitballing mid day 1 instead of early day 1 as scum is maybe true but seems to ignore how being pressured would affect my play, being pressured as scum is a weakness for me.

[Isis]

I mean, if I knew my exact thought process behind this thought I would've explained it lol.

i feel like every once in a while paranoia starts creeping up on me about scipio

and then he goes ahead and drops a line like this and i'm like !!!
i feel like i felt this so many times as town
how does one not townread him for it

Can you share a post that makes paranoia about scipio creep up on you?

[Isis]

UNVOTE:
i'm not really vibing scum-isis naymore

~ skitter

does anyone just want to eliminate the scum hydra for not even pretending to maintain a read progression

skitter was supposed to "not be vibing scum isis anymore" during her last post either, Mena is the one who revoted

this is absurd

[Isis]

I really hope infinity is paranoid that I am scum with skitter

the notion keeps striking me as delightful and has mostly good outcomes

removing skitter and mena from a game of mafia in a game that includes NM is kind of sad regardless of alignment, though. NM doesn't seem to have selected this game as one of the ones he is going to actually play

[Isis]

I don't really see any thought process that I don't think can be manufactured in Isis's posting. This is probably the most interesting post

idk how to explain it to you
If I can't point to a post implosion has made by the end of day 1 and say it's a townpost, implosion probably has a role PM. If I can't point to a post Datisi has made by the end of day 1 and say it's a townpost, he's probably scum.

Datisi probably has like, 2-3 townish posts I that didn't meet threshhold for specific remarks, PP has done the same, and by the curve I grade on PP is more likely to be actually town this game than Datisi.

I play all my games like this. The extent to which I acknowledge it varies. I would think everyone plays their games this way although maybe other people wait for an actual scumgame and do this storytelling paranoid "but for this person, what if this is like that time they seemed townie but for scum?" (my approach is a bit more flawed if it were applied to someone I have not seen actually roll scum, but I have been scum -with- Datisi once and felt like he made good posts)

but like, this seems like just a way Isis approaches games. I don't think it's an especially hard post for scum-her to make.

I 100% agree I could post this as town, jester, mafia, cult leader, or werewolf.
So like, what are you trying to accomplish with this post? How is this simultaneously my "most interesting post" and, not, it is clearly not, it is very obviously not.

[seCret hYdra]

by the way, i personally kinda have trouble to get reads rn but my other head thinks that datis is playing to a part of his town meta that he hasn't broken yet, and we also have a scumtell on him that he didn't trigger

so not feeling too great about a dats wagon

anyways i'll prob not be able to post much more, busy day

pedit : i'm always in for an exe on NM btw

- hYdra

[Isis]

I feel like no one has engaged my core reason for calling Datisi scum, but also no one has like, done the opposite and said "this is a townpost", which if you truly do not think there are signs of artificiality in that post, it absolutely should be. You can't all be scum, with or without Datisi, for being handwavy in the aggregate but I don't get it ughhhh. I really don't care that much about whether I spot people too much or too little store credit for having a good/bad meta and would much rather talk to people about whether saying a total of like 2 things in a post 3 times each is an indicator of performativity or it isn't

[Bridgeburners]

Can either of you elaborate more on your aaron read?

loosely +town. i'm not really sure i see the IIOA that people are complaining about, and he has had a couple of well-timed takes that i liked. like not super strongly but not enough to really like the wagon or want to vote there if that makes sense

to be fair, now thati write this out, i realize that my read on AFF may be more about how other people are playing around him (i.e. how the wagon is forming and how people are scumreading him) than how he is playing himself, if that makes sense

~

I would like to hear from skitter if she has specific reasons for voting him or if she's just shopping around.

i would like to pass on this for the moment, but will circle back

~

UNVOTE:
i'm not really vibing scum-isis naymore

~ skitter

does anyone just want to eliminate the scum hydra for not even pretending to maintain a read progression

skitter was supposed to "not be vibing scum isis anymore" during her last post either, Mena is the one who revoted

this is absurd

well, when you posted after mena revoted you and before i posted 726, your posting looked even more townie to me, so i took the vote off again because when i said 'mena can vote wherever' i wasn't expecting him to vote you
i will endeavor to try to be more consensus-y with mena before posting votes

also i think this is town ^
you feel a little too ~prickly~ rn to be mafia if that makes sense

also wrt your dats scumread post: like ig i see where you're coming from but i don't know if i agree with the conclusion (i.e. i'm not sure if the things you listed are actually scum-indicative) but i think that the thought process *you* had in that post is townie, and i'm not sure i agree with you that the post is inherently super +town if i don't ascribe to your reasons for scumreading it either

~ skitter

[Datisi]

Do I have to agree with all of Isis's posts in order to townread Isis? Because that's not really what my read on Isis is based on.

no, but i think i didn't express myself well. i wanted to ask you to look at it from my pov - isis has seen me be not-townie, and to me it felt like a shitpush. you cited some of those posts as ~natural and logical~. do you still view them as so, after knowing about the meta?

now, what's actually *bothering* me here is that isis did use the argument "datisi isn't as townie in this game as he was in autumnal" before, and she used it when she was scum against me.

Do you have a reason that's alignment dispositive? The way I play scum is to emulate my towngame, so that just kind of all lines up, to me.

I forgot about Why Gun, as much as I racked my brain. It does seed doubt. All the Your Turn To Die avatars were so scummy.

because i feel like town!you should know better?? that me not being magically townie in a game is not automatically an indicator that i'm not town? especially considering the last time that same discussion was being held was in a game that you were modding?? *and* considering the fact that you did misread me before??

also i still disagree keiji was scummy

Which I've felt before but the main blocker is, how good do I think Datisi is at mafia or not.

hm?

[Datisi]

actually change of plans

VOTE: implo

i don't like 737