TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[mastina]

Please do then

Town

For a start, an immediate vote and sorting which were absent from here.

But beyond that:

Not liking bob perfume and vax but that list contains at most 1 scum due to voting theory.

Not liking bob perfume and vax but that list contains at most 1 scum due to

voting theory.

go on

Perfume and Vax are not likely scum together because two scum piling on me is highly unlikely as I don't think I pose that much of a threat. Seems awkward. Vax and Bob are unlikely scum together because they both used the same tactic to create two different wagons. This type of approach draws attention to them both and makes it twice as likely to get caught. Bob and perfume are unlikely scum together because Bob's vote undermines Perfume's "serious" push by creating an alternative. Basically, they aren't acting in concert. [/end professor]

Not liking bob perfume and vax but that list contains at most 1 scum due to

voting theory.

go on

I get the sense just ignoring Titus will be best for the game regardless of their alignment

Why? Do you think my reads are bad? Why the heavy handed discredit?

Do you think my reads are bad?

I think they're indistinguishable from throwing darts at a board at the moment because you've offered up reasoning that doesn't seem relevant AND you're publicly explaining them all which combines for a nasty distraction in my opinion

Wait, you're problem is that I am explaining my reads so I should be discredited? But I'm probably town and you have no interest in working with me because of my explanations? #confused

Mistyx is likely town. I like Bob more, even if he's annoying me.

UNVOTE: Got what I wanted.

What was it that you wanted, exactly? ( ｰ̀εｰ́ )

Red, chara, jj, mistyx are fine
Titus claimed negative utility and I haven't figured out if I trust that yet
catboi rvs is now serious

Why are you suspicious of my claim? Why is catboi now a serious push? Why are Red and jj town?

VOTE: The Twins

Not that I disagree with this, but why? Does the red flip change your gamestate evaluation at all?

Why weren't the twins the cfd attempt?

Hahaha true that wagon did stall. But so did a Chara one and I have them as basically locktown, to play devils advocate

Chara has always been pretty obvtown. Chara was the CFD attempt that bypassed the twins.

Y'all can T v T. Meanwhile Perfume has been dodging this thread since we got out of RVS.

(Btw this is more in line with Titus being a town mediator--it's lower-effort than her normal town mediator, but there is a notable marked difference between her mediating that game and this game.)


I could go on and point out more of the town posting from Titus that game, but basically--I could instantly tell that Titus was town that game from posts like the above. It immediately was her as I know her. Lower-effort than previous eras of Titus, but still very obviously her as town.

This game she isn't that at all.

I majorly scumread mastina, who is shading me to ensure her wagon goes through on LLD.

In the mastina-Titus duo, I was not the one whose literal first content post in the game, whose second post in the game, was shading the other.

That honor is yours.

Scum are largely in the passive players like the worst and A50. mastina's fighting like hell to get vocal players eliminated because her partners aren't vocal.

This is a statement that is half-true. Scum

are

largely in the 'passive' players; Titus, the worst's slot, Ythan, and AGar all fit into that category pretty unambiguously. (Oka can potentially fit in there too depending on your view of his actions.) Heck LLD's drop in activity means she's borderline in the group as well.

But the scum are fighting to eliminate, by and large, players who're vocal because they don't have many options in the nonvocal players.

hmmm. It's not as much as I thought when I was writing it out but it still feels like you have a lot of empty confidence on multiple theories that sort of falls apart if any of them are kind of false

If something does go wrong, I'll reasses. Right now, I have my theory of the game I stand by.

A town Titus does not say this, by the way.

[mastina]

She's arguing at a player who isn't there and saying, and I quote
That I said to BoP me... and she is doing that by killing me before anything flips. Mastina is not so stupid she doesn't know that's fucking ass backwards.

I made a perfectly valid point that you're now attempting to side-step. Here's a series of events:

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

Honestly I',m okay with being burden of proficiencied this game

I mean ltierally let me generate some reads, make a call on who is scum and if my scumreads keep flipping town, oopsies, fucking kill me.

You say to burden of proficiency you.

VOTE: Hercule

You strongly push hercule.

I do not think all of DGB/Xtom/Hercule can be town. I'm not sure if there's more than 1 scum in it but I think they can't all be town this game.

You say that {DGB, Xtoxm, hercule} cannot be all town.

VOTE: Xtoxm

You vote Xtoxm.

question from auro:
were {dgb, xtoxm, hercule} to be all revealed as town, would this say anything about lld's alignment?

Xtoxm askes if DGB, Xtoxm, and hercule, the group you said could not be all town, was revealed as all town, what it'd say about your alignment.

No. They think those slots are hard town. So the argument is bad from its onset. They are arguing "if we're all town, that would make LLD scum more likely, right?"

when in truth, in a game this size, the odds that 3 townies can be wrong or misled by other factors is much higher than being presented.

Now note that they are possibly not all townies, too, but this logical conclusion they are trying to sell you is a one way conclusion and false from its very premise.

The only odds that increase for me to be scum if those 3 are all town is the fact that there are 3 less townies in the pool on literal odds drawing. Not more, not less.

And then you attempt to shift the argument to being, "if those three flip scum, it increases the odds I'm scum only because there's less town players alive".

Ignoring the previous, that you had asked to be burden of proficiency'd, and that you said Xtoxm/DGB/hercule cannot all be town. So if Xtoxm/DGB/hercule were all revealed to be town after you said they weren't, and after you said to burden of proficiency you...it would significantly increase the odds that you're scum.

Basically, you're trying to rewrite history here.

[Winter Flakes]

And if people want me to agree to die if Mastina is town, I'll do that.

Hell, if we can get 10 people in this game who will agree to kill mastina after I'm dead if I flip town, I'll do that too.

I'm down for any outcome that results in both Mastina and I dead, though obviously I prefer the one where we kill her and she flips scum and I get shot by scum tonight.

@Mastina

Do you really think this is a scum bluff? I just find it too hard to believe it is

[innocentvillager]

Page 39.

Mastina
Danflorr.
Hopkirk.
LLD.
DGB
A50
JJH
Agar
Ythan
Hercule
Oka

Aside: Dunnstrall: Seems different, more communicative. Can't put a finger on an agenda though, so just null.

These are just initial impressions, not from team. I should be caught up by tomorrow.

wheeeeee hi bell!

[innocentvillager]

hmmm. It's not as much as I thought when I was writing it out but it still feels like you have a lot of empty confidence on multiple theories that sort of falls apart if any of them are kind of false

If something does go wrong, I'll reasses. Right now, I have my theory of the game I stand by.

A town Titus does not say this, by the way.

y not?

[innocentvillager]

Aside: Dunnstrall: Seems different, more communicative. Can't put a finger on an agenda though, so just null.

if you're thinking about a game like Newbie 2017 yeah best throw out all your Dunn meta out the window. Apparently he has games that he tries in (like this one) and games he doesn't really invest in (like Newbie 2017) for whatever reason

my teammate Gypyx thinks Dunnstral is town so im laying off him for now but i still find it kind of hard to read high-effort Dunnstral

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: ythan
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: titus

Maybe. How is Ythan different from last game/ will they ever be readable?
Why do so many people townread dgb?

ythan cared about something last game

You're right

Ythan, do you have reads?

Ythan
Dun
Cephrir
Luca
Jjh
Mastina
Winter
Dan
Hopkirk
Titus
Xtoxm
Drip
Innocent
AGar
Almost
Lady
Oka

Something like that. Many adjacent positions are somewhat equivalent especially toward the middle.

Worst I'm unclear on, I have plans to settle that slot into the list somewhere some time since it's relevant.

this is kind of a spicy readslist? at the very least if he's faking, it's probably almost all his own intentional fake content and not recycled material/coached

i don't know if i like Oka's Ythan push, seems kind of weirdly fixated on the fact that Ythan intentionally "lied" about trolling last game and I don't really see scum motivation to do that

[Lady Lambdadelta]

She's arguing at a player who isn't there and saying, and I quote
That I said to BoP me... and she is doing that by killing me before anything flips. Mastina is not so stupid she doesn't know that's fucking ass backwards.

I made a perfectly valid point that you're now attempting to side-step. Here's a series of events:

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

Honestly I',m okay with being burden of proficiencied this game

I mean ltierally let me generate some reads, make a call on who is scum and if my scumreads keep flipping town, oopsies, fucking kill me.

You say to burden of proficiency you.

VOTE: Hercule

You strongly push hercule.

I do not think all of DGB/Xtom/Hercule can be town. I'm not sure if there's more than 1 scum in it but I think they can't all be town this game.

You say that {DGB, Xtoxm, hercule} cannot be all town.

VOTE: Xtoxm

You vote Xtoxm.

question from auro:
were {dgb, xtoxm, hercule} to be all revealed as town, would this say anything about lld's alignment?

Xtoxm askes if DGB, Xtoxm, and hercule, the group you said could not be all town, was revealed as all town, what it'd say about your alignment.

No. They think those slots are hard town. So the argument is bad from its onset. They are arguing "if we're all town, that would make LLD scum more likely, right?"

when in truth, in a game this size, the odds that 3 townies can be wrong or misled by other factors is much higher than being presented.

Now note that they are possibly not all townies, too, but this logical conclusion they are trying to sell you is a one way conclusion and false from its very premise.

The only odds that increase for me to be scum if those 3 are all town is the fact that there are 3 less townies in the pool on literal odds drawing. Not more, not less.

And then you attempt to shift the argument to being, "if those three flip scum, it increases the odds I'm scum only because there's less town players alive".

Ignoring the previous, that you had asked to be burden of proficiency'd, and that you said Xtoxm/DGB/hercule cannot all be town. So if Xtoxm/DGB/hercule were all revealed to be town after you said they weren't, and after you said to burden of proficiency you...it would significantly increase the odds that you're scum.

Basically, you're trying to rewrite history here.

Please someone look at the bolded.

Mastina is literally saying, that when I say "if those 3 flip town" I am implying I think they are all not town.

...............

Go on, I want every person to parse that statement she just made against the evidence and come to their own conlcusion.

No skipping this one. No ignoring it.

You either agree with Mastina's logic or you start telling me why you are agreeing with her despite it being LITERAL MADE UP GARBAGE.

I want answers.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dunn, you're not going to threaten me into going after compromise votes that I don't really believe in by telling me "oh I'll vote you instead".

Fucking fade me, bud. It's your job to read me, I'm showing you everything I have as a townie, all cards on the table.

If you wanna tank your town cred, you can fade me and see what happens to you in 2 days in this town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Aside: Dunnstrall: Seems different, more communicative. Can't put a finger on an agenda though, so just null.

if you're thinking about a game like Newbie 2017 yeah best throw out all your Dunn meta out the window. Apparently he has games that he tries in (like this one) and games he doesn't really invest in (like Newbie 2017) for whatever reason

my teammate Gypyx thinks Dunnstral is town so im laying off him for now but i still find it kind of hard to read high-effort Dunnstral

Oh hey, time to do something team Mafia exclusive.

Gypyx is on your team? Freshly has come off a game where we were both scum and I coached the dude to hell.

I want Gypyx's read on me, and words from them about why they have generated that read (and also words about why they have a read on DUNNSTRAL and not ME after that game).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also what is our deadline and why is it not increased by having The Worst and Hercule both replacing?

[innocentvillager]

gypyx isn't following the game so he has a dunnstral read because i specifically asked him for it

i will ask him what he thinks of you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: ythan
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: titus

Maybe. How is Ythan different from last game/ will they ever be readable?
Why do so many people townread dgb?

ythan cared about something last game

You're right

Ythan, do you have reads?

Ythan
Dun
Cephrir
Luca
Jjh
Mastina
Winter
Dan
Hopkirk
Titus
Xtoxm
Drip
Innocent
AGar
Almost
Lady
Oka

Something like that. Many adjacent positions are somewhat equivalent especially toward the middle.

Worst I'm unclear on, I have plans to settle that slot into the list somewhere some time since it's relevant.

this is kind of a spicy readslist? at the very least if he's faking, it's probably almost all his own intentional fake content and not recycled material/coached

i don't know if i like Oka's Ythan push, seems kind of weirdly fixated on the fact that Ythan intentionally "lied" about trolling last game and I don't really see scum motivation to do that

IV, answer this please.

[innocentvillager]

Ignoring the previous, that you had asked to be burden of proficiency'd, and that you said Xtoxm/DGB/hercule cannot all be town. So if Xtoxm/DGB/hercule were all revealed to be town after you said they weren't, and after you said to burden of proficiency you...it would significantly increase the odds that you're scum.

Mastina is literally saying, that when I say "if those 3 flip town" I am implying I think they are all not town.

ive read this a couple times and i am still confused

in isolation mastina's bolded quote there makes sense to me? you said the 3 cannot all be town, so if they all flip town, you were wrong, so by BoP you're very likely to be scum, that's what she's saying right?

i doubt it's an intentional misrep from mastina even if she is scum and you feel she misrepped you?

pedit: what do you want me to answer?

[innocentvillager]

LLD, im paraphrasing here but Gypyx doesn't feel confident reading you just from that one game and he didn't really read much of your posting in TENET anyway, plus he knows you're recognized as good scum

he told me before the first LN game that he felt decent about reading A50 and Dunnstral, so that's why I specifically asked him for his Dunnstral and A50 reads at various points both games

[innocentvillager]

but he's gonna try and read you anyway at some point he says

[AGar]

I still think all of Goofball, Mastina and Dannflor are Town. I don't have much else right now tbh. I'll start Iso'ing the people being wagoned.

This is underwhelming.

[innocentvillager]

imagine seeing a flip in the team mafia large normal

it's almost here (like 3.5 days ish i believe)! we should probably get moving soon

[jjh927]

Why do you think day 1 will end

[Ythan]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

Are you listening scum

[innocentvillager]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

Are you listening scum

loud and clear, let me just ask my buddies if they’re okay with it

[innocentvillager]

if it were up to me I would but unfortunately one of them just said no

[AGar]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

[Luca Blight]

I still think all of Goofball, Mastina and Dannflor are Town. I don't have much else right now tbh. I'll start Iso'ing the people being wagoned.

This is underwhelming.

I'm well aware, thanks.

It takes me a while to get a feel for games that I replace into, and no-one this game stands out as being particularly scummy. It's going to take more than a skim-through to solidify my reads.

[jjh927]

Have your teammates been paying attention to the game? I feel like that would make replacing in to an ongoing game a bit easier