Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

STT there's probably at least 10-20 pages I've only read in iso but tbh I usually do better with iso anyway. Were there any reads you wanted to talk to me about or what?

[Imperium]

I’ve spent entire games with no townreads. It’s not fun,

[Imperium]

So either you trust the town and shoot HUB who a majority of the game is scumreading even if you don't see where they're coming from.

Or you shoot Cakez because you trust yourself.

Either way, just take the shot. Or spend time talking to people and understanding their perspective more instead of lying and manipulating.

[ScrewTheTells]

STT there's probably at least 10-20 pages I've only read in iso but tbh I usually do better with iso anyway. Were there any reads you wanted to talk to me about or what?

If you feel like you've caught up, then is post 1677 still an accurate depiction of your current position?

I'm interested in which players are more or less scummy in relation to each other from your POV, so I wanna be sure this stack list is actually what you currently endorse. I don't wanna waste time on the wrong premises, if you actually changed your reads since then due to reading.

[petapan]

mush can you explain why you scumread cakez so much

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I already did. It's fundamentally the same exact argument from allllll the way back on ... was it Day 1? It hasn't changed, because from what I see, Cakez's play hasn't changed. Which, given that was the issue that lead me to the scumread in the first place... well, it's made it pretty strong.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I think the post at the top of this page is a decent enough summary for most folks. That said: if I think about it, there's some other stuff that tends to ping me but which aren't things most people are sensitive to. May as well just rewrite it all out for ease of access.

Generally speaking: Saying one thing, then saying a contradictory statement under pressure -- feels less like stating beliefs than trying to evade attention. Making baseless assertions that seem like trying to force an interpretation (e.g. the whole Norfolk scumhunting thing). General gut feeling of the play being phony, i.e. fake, but not so much "simply acting" as it is "crafted for specific effect".

More specific to how I build out reads: Apparent lack of a coherent chain of causation -- I don't see how he gets from point A to point B, it feels like it's abrupt jumps instead of actual changes in thought process. Play is "concentric" -- instead of his play changing focus at any point, it takes a specific point (in this case, "shoot Norfolk") and centers all of his play on that singular point. All play that isn't directly centered on it is pushing back on people questioning it. Hence "concentric", his play reaches ever wider circles of the playerlist but the center point never changes, indeed hasn't changed since page 1.

Because of these things, his play feels agenda-driven: he has a specific goal (shoot Norfolk) and does not attempt to search around outside of that goal. When dealing with things that are not necessarily "shoot Norfolk", his statements are not necessarily logically compatible with one another, and there is no apparent shift in belief or understanding to explain the incompatibilities (since the conclusions he comes to do NOT appear to change alongside the statements).

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

It's not that far off. It's not a shoot order tho. I'd shoot cakez-->peta and then read more if I didn't kill myself on one of them.

Dunn would go further up, I'd probably play around with the top.

Dunn
Wheme

NM

Unwnd

STT

[Imperiummmmm <3]

Peta
Cakez

[WhemeStar]

Why do you townread me what have I done what the fuck are u white knighting me if I get gun I’m shooting u

[WhemeStar]

God this game would be so much easier if Netflix and chill shot duchess instead of rlotus

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

Why do you townread me what have I done what the fuck are u white knighting me if I get gun I’m shooting u

Is that a promise <3

[SirCakez]

My reads haven't evolved because all of them have been correct so far and my top scumreads have not been shot. Why would I change anything?

[SirCakez]

Idk I can't change your mind at this point so do what you want

[petapan]

I think the post at the top of this page is a decent enough summary for most folks. That said: if I think about it, there's some other stuff that tends to ping me but which aren't things most people are sensitive to. May as well just rewrite it all out for ease of access.

Generally speaking: Saying one thing, then saying a contradictory statement under pressure -- feels less like stating beliefs than trying to evade attention. Making baseless assertions that seem like trying to force an interpretation (e.g. the whole Norfolk scumhunting thing). General gut feeling of the play being phony, i.e. fake, but not so much "simply acting" as it is "crafted for specific effect".

More specific to how I build out reads: Apparent lack of a coherent chain of causation -- I don't see how he gets from point A to point B, it feels like it's abrupt jumps instead of actual changes in thought process. Play is "concentric" -- instead of his play changing focus at any point, it takes a specific point (in this case, "shoot Norfolk") and centers all of his play on that singular point. All play that isn't directly centered on it is pushing back on people questioning it. Hence "concentric", his play reaches ever wider circles of the playerlist but the center point never changes, indeed hasn't changed since page 1.

Because of these things, his play feels agenda-driven: he has a specific goal (shoot Norfolk) and does not attempt to search around outside of that goal. When dealing with things that are not necessarily "shoot Norfolk", his statements are not necessarily logically compatible with one another, and there is no apparent shift in belief or understanding to explain the incompatibilities (since the conclusions he comes to do NOT appear to change alongside the statements).

what distinguishes between scum with an agenda and town with a strong scumread?

[WhemeStar]

Imperium what’s your shoot list if you get gun?

STT what’s your shoot list of you get gun?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I’ve been super busy today, apologies.

I’ve decided to just shoot here: VOTE: Happy Unbirthday Boon

I can’t scumread it, but I can’t townread it either. I don’t necessarily trust the town here, because almost half of the players are not town. But I don’t trust anyone, and other people in the game do trust people. So...

[SirCakez]

alrighty finally

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

Well you tried

VOTE: sircakez

[SirCakez]

If that's real scum just won

[Syryana]

She shoots! She scores! Happy Unbirthday Boon,

Mafia Goon

, has died. MUSHSHAGANA remains the gunbearer. The mafia has 48 hours to determine a target for the factional venge-kill.

(expired on 2021-02-10 17:00:00)

[Syryana]

And with that, Imperium,

Vanilla Town

, has died.
It is now Day 4. MUSHSHAGANA remains the gunbearer.

Not Voting

(8): SirCakez, unwnd, ScrewTheTells, Dunnstral, WhemeStar, petapan, Not_Mafia, MUSHSHAGANA
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-24 17:00:00)

[SirCakez]

First read I was wrong on :/
@imperium we can have the discussion you want post-game
This even moreso reinforces that scum were going for the "shoot Cakez shoot imperium" game ender (along with the fact that both Duchess and HUB were pushing me hella hard obviously)

But HUB was scum so I'm happy with that
I want NM or Wheme today

[SirCakez]

Aside from me Imperium kill points to Peta or STT I think?

[unwnd]

On flip

Cakez

Tammycho

unwnd MUSH (VACANT)

--Null Void--
Peta
STT
N_M
Dunn
-Null void--

Wheme

Norfolk

(VACANT) VACANT)

[unwnd]

Cakez unwnd MUSH (vacant) (vacant)

---Null void---
Peta
N_M
Dunn
--Null void---

Wheme (vacant) (vacant)