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[Hopkirk]

for anyone wondering about our thoughts in the team discord btw here's some more:

- Flopz's dad had his car broken into this morning at 6am when people were already awake. they chased the chief off without incident
- Zaiden refered to this as GTA irl
- I disputed the definition of stopping someone breaking into cars as 'Grand Theft Auto'
- Flopz suggested some funny stuff like 'locking them in the car' and we explained this was a bad idea
- I suggested it could be the mods breaking in because they wanted to show Flopz that his car wasn't secure enough
- Flopz disagreed because why would they be going through his CDs
- I suggested they wanted to organise the CDs
- Flopz noted they weren't organized and i conceded the point
- We speculated for a while about whether the mods liked us. we agreed they probably liked hectic since everyone likes hectic, but we aren't sure about the rest of us
- Zaiden is looking forward to post-lockdown chicken
- Flopz did not weigh in on this
- Flopz complained that as an adult i shouldn't be making as many dumb comments in our discord as i am
- I pointed out that Flopz is also an adult
- Flopz claims it's different and that he doesn't make the rules
- I asked to see the rules
- Flopz has dinner or something. hmmmmm.

[Dannflor]

if I never see the word performative again it will be too soon

[innocentvillager]

this game is a bunch of players who all fiercely scum read each other for reasons I can't quite seem to grasp

this describes my thoughts exactly

[Hopkirk]

i'd really prefer to just delete a lurker today but it doesn't seem like that's an option.

which lurker(s)?

If someone wants to talk to me about their scum reads and shit, I'll do that.

in recognition of the fact that you may not be around tomorrow one way or another, i'd be interested in your thoughts on some of the lower content slots like agar, the worst, ythan, titus. i currently feel there's probably multiple scum in that group, but if you're seeing some legit towniness there and you flip town that's something that i'd legitimately still care about tomorrow. if you're scum i don't plan to mine your response for associatives i'll be a lot more interested in how others acted around you & your wagon than what you posted in that case tbh.

i'd also be interested in what you think of dgb. i'm guessing it won't be that it's scum with mastina, since that seems hella brazen. but that's asking for a bit more work, so like, whatever you wanna get into, i'm listening. i get that this game probably isn't very fun for you either way.

Agar town

Ythan... ehhhhhh

Titus probably town

nothing on the worst, sorry, read their replacement instead

talk to me about town agar?
is your tr on titus related to Mastina or something else?

Page 39.

Mastina
Danflorr.
Hopkirk.
LLD.
DGB
A50
JJH
Agar
Ythan
Hercule
Oka

Aside: Dunnstrall: Seems different, more communicative. Can't put a finger on an agenda though, so just null.

These are just initial impressions, not from team. I should be caught up by tomorrow.

different to what? i read this, thought 'obviously the last game', then realized you'd subbed in this page and that doesn't make sense

[innocentvillager]

lolsolve rn is something like {Titus, dunnstral, Cephrir, AGar} don't @ me

someone let me know if they wanna towncase any of these 4

ive briefly talked about Titus

i get heebie jeebies from AGar's ISO this game (to be fair i don't think I've ever townread this slot and I've only played with with him twice and he was town both times? but idk, I explicitly feel a little worse about him this time than the previous times?)

I know Gypyx townleans Dunnstral but like... idk im getting a survivalistic postury vibe from him

Cephrir is superficially different but is anything outside his scumrange here? mehhh

cephrir is my pocket super town read this game. Is there anything about him that has specifically worried you or is this just PoE + not seeing anything special?

AGar I'd be interested in specifics as well.

cephrir is not getting wagoned today and I don’t have any real reason to SL them so I don’t feel it’s productive to look into him or discuss him with deadline looming, we can revisit. If you strong TR him that’s cool, I’m probably wrong on him then

I will look into agar because I think think there were specific things that felt weird to me (but ugh, definitely could be conflating playstyle with My historical record)

[Dannflor]

which lurker(s)?

how do you feel about ythan

[innocentvillager]

i will say I’m pretty lukewarm about this Ythan wagon but if I can’t come up with good reasoning for any other alternatives I Will sheep it

[Dannflor]

If you strong TR him that’s cool, I’m probably wrong on him then

I will look into agar because I think think there were specific things that felt weird to me (but ugh, definitely could be conflating playstyle with My historical record)

Cephrir can be shelved sure. I'm not sure I could really town case him convincingly either right now I just kind of *need* him to be town for my sanity.

AGar is more interesting to me because there are a lot of things in his posting that either feel weird or I disagree with. But I felt that last game too and I'm not sure any of it is genuinely scummy?

[Hopkirk]

@LLD on the thing with you/Mastina that you asked everyone to comment on

Mastina is literally saying, that when I say "if those 3 flip town" I am implying I think they are all not town.

Isn't Mastina basically saying 'if LLD's reads are wrong then the chance of her being scum go up'? I can see where Mastina is coming from based on that premise.
is this what you've got a problem with, or are you interpreting it different?
also Mastina am i interpreting you right here?

ah, isn't it great when you ask 'can everyone give their thoughts on this' and more than 1 person does. never happens for me. grrrr Agar

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

fake

[innocentvillager]

AGar is more interesting to me because there are a lot of things in his posting that either feel weird or I disagree with. But I felt that last game too and I'm not sure any of it is genuinely scummy?

yes this is definitely giving me pause on agar

how did you feel about the Titus wagon? you were briefly on it

[innocentvillager]

to be clear when I was lolsolving last night I was kind on some adrenaline rush from something exciting that just finished before so maybe that’s partly why I tried to emotional-solve a scumteam

I still think those 4 are near the bottom of my reads? (as in maybe like just under null, with Cephrir, Dunnstral being basically null) but I’m really not so sure after looking at this with a clearer mind

[Cephrir]

this is me noting that winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) has somehow begun to blend into the scenery so thoroughly i think i forgot he existed

[AGar]

this is me noting that winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) has somehow begun to blend into the scenery so thoroughly i think i forgot he existed

Yeahhh just kinda noticed this.

[innocentvillager]

if LLD is town I think there’s a good chance some scum are TMI-TRing her and that kind of lead to some Cephrir/AGar pocket equity (oh look, of the 4 low content slots LLD was asked to give thoughts on, she townread Titus and AGar and both of them called LLD town at that point)

circumstantial ikik

[AGar]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

fake

Homie we went 145 pages without a flip, restarted and now we're approaching Page 100 again. I dunno about you but this is definitively Not Fun for me at this point.

[Cephrir]

if LLD is town I think there’s a good chance some scum are TMI-TRing her and that kind of lead to some Cephrir/AGar pocket equity (oh look, of the 4 low content slots LLD was asked to give thoughts on, she townread Titus and AGar and both of them called LLD town at that point)

circumstantial ikik

brb gonna spend all my energy pocketing someone who's going to be dead today

deep value

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

fake

Homie we went 145 pages without a flip, restarted and now we're approaching Page 100 again. I dunno about you but this is definitively Not Fun for me at this point.

Who do you want to kill most, 3 names

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if LLD is town I think there’s a good chance some scum are TMI-TRing her and that kind of lead to some Cephrir/AGar pocket equity (oh look, of the 4 low content slots LLD was asked to give thoughts on, she townread Titus and AGar and both of them called LLD town at that point)

circumstantial ikik

brb gonna spend all my energy pocketing someone who's going to be dead today

deep value

I am going to be dead today?

Really?

[AGar]

I wish I could throw this game and start day one again

I swear to fucking Christ...

fake

Homie we went 145 pages without a flip, restarted and now we're approaching Page 100 again. I dunno about you but this is definitively Not Fun for me at this point.

Who do you want to kill most, 3 names

Hopkirk
Luca





Winter Flakes

[Hopkirk]

also i am not complaining nor frustrated about the gamestate i am okay with 90% of the players so yeah okay gtg again

are you having more or less or the same amount of fun as last game?

lolsolve rn is something like {Titus, dunnstral, Cephrir, AGar} don't @ me

these people are all in my poe/the less null end of the poe

Agar, I'm not seeing what you're seeing in hopkirk

I don't feel it's all that opaque but I'll properly case it out.

It's more that I don't agree with what you've been quoting so far

For what it's worth I have hopkirk at around null.

I'm not sure how you're disagreeing with the recent stuff, it seems fairly cut and dry.

---

My strong suspicion of Hopkirk is based primarily on two prongs:

1) I think that throwing the "[teammate] was offended by the slander of RC and I'm gonna bring that back up a couple dozen pages later" bomb out there was a specific attempt to derail a strong player who basically BoP'd herself into a tunnel of vitriol and lost focus. Whether it took hold to me is irrelevant - the entire thing was unnecessary and again, I go out of my way to assume players aren't [redacted name] when it comes to "are they scum or are they incredibly incompetent as town?" scenarios. Also incredibly amusing when squared with this post. Makes you think.

2) Hopkirk has on more than one occasion posited something, and then when called on it, backtracked to say he didn't actually mean it

that way

and tried to chalk it up to he just used a word loosely. Throwing Hercule in as a counterwagon to LLD was maybe the easiest example to catch him on and also the one in which he probably thought he could get away easiest. There was a wagon on Hercule, and he legitimately tried to get away with saying he didn't mean counterwagon when he said counterwagon. Sorry, not buying that bullshit.

Lesser notes:

He tried to recycle the point about "appealing to the crowd" against me (by appealing to a crowd, lol), even though it was brought up in reference to folks trying to appeal to a crowd that they were town/how are people buying it, and any appeals I've made have been to convince people to

look at a scumbag

, which - last I checked - was half the battle as town. I dunno, find it pretty scummy that part of the defense would be "Hey he's trying to get other people to weigh in!" because it tells me he has no actual basis to disprove/dispute my read, so he's resorting to trying to undercut me instead.

He's tried to spin everything around that I'm coming at him with as "oh you're just personally attacking me, you're being mean!" when I'm explicitly calling this out as scummy behavior. Again - his best defense has been "oh I didn't mean

counterwagon

when I called Hercule a

counterwagon

". Sometimes when scum tells you they're scum, you should believe them.

I've highlighted problems with 1173, 1176, and 1187 and the gratuitous stretch needed to get those mental gymnastics in place.

---

Ythan being inexplicably cagey with Dann in the early 2200s. And Oka.

---

This:

I read the first half of the game quite closely, but have skimmed most of it since then tbh.

does not square with

this:

It's going to take more than a skim-through to solidify my reads.

And definitely not with having three charmin townreads and no scumreads.

---

Hey

@IV

i doubt it's an intentional misrep from mastina even if she is scum and you feel she misrepped you?

Very weird defense of mastina here. Why?

1- so you're saying i'm scum because i'd be a dick as scum? fuck off. you're leading with the assumption of scum!hop then trying to justify it back from this like hectic said rather than starting by trying to work out if it were a joke that i found funny (town or i guess scum), deliberately incendiary (scum), or other (?)
2- post the other times because the one you're referencing here is your scumclaim (note for Cephir, i'm only like 40-50% on scum Agar at best and i'm exaggerating the phrasing here). fun story btw - Hectic has clarified in the last month or so that i've been misusing the terms 'deepwolf' and 'pocketing'. unrelated because i know what a counterwagon means- a wagon in response to someone else getting wagoned (though if there's two wagons at the same time and one is picking up votes then the other does the the first one picks up more/solidifies then that is a counterwagon imo)- ydrasse can back this one up

you were appealing to a crowd. 'recycling' isn't a point against it because it having come up before about someone else (don't think you said it about me?) that wouldn't make it less relevant on you? plus there's levels of appealing to other people and the way Agar is doing it feels off to me and what to other people think?
the counterwagon phrasing is stupid. my meaning was clear and you DON'T get this response if you're actually thinking about my alignment at the time rather than trying to use that comment to support an existing characterization that is already garbage tier

point 2 is the worst part of this because it's coming from a position of assuming Hop is scum to try and work out the meaning. point 1 is essentially the same where Agar tries to say how it comes from scum!me without showing any indication of trying to work out whether it's coming from scum me or town me. that step doesn't make sense to skip in real reads, so the perspective doesn't gel

you have not highlighted anything and you're ignoring like what, 3-4 people (me/Dunn more than once/Oka eventually/definitely someone else but i forget who it was) who've said that my original joke was clearly a joke

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ceph if you are town, you would be aiming to kill anything but me today

And i have noticed you really are kind of chill with me dying and frankly?

Feels like you kind if want it to happen without blood on your hands.

[Dannflor]

AGar is more interesting to me because there are a lot of things in his posting that either feel weird or I disagree with. But I felt that last game too and I'm not sure any of it is genuinely scummy?

yes this is definitely giving me pause on agar

how did you feel about the Titus wagon? you were briefly on it

I don't mind the Titus wagon, I think I like it better than the DGB wagon now.

Titus definitely fits the mold of side-line player not really doing anything besides casually calling LLD town (which in my theory of the game is more likely to be scum)

I'd say ythan and Titus are probably my top two picks for wagons at the moment.

I'm okay with letting Bell post some more for now, I'm hoping he becomes more readable one way or another

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I am getting the "working against me in a game of survivor but doesn't want to be the counter vote" feeling from you Ceph.

And it isn't good.

[AGar]

LLD I have :thoughts: on Ceph that disagree with what your view is, and I think it's due to Not Being You. But I think Ceph is town.

[Hopkirk]

A50 is moving in the opposite direction in read structure from last game. Probably a good sign.

Lilith thinks Dunnstrall is town because they think he plays with an aggressive deepwolf agenda as scum. While here he's not showing much of an agenda. Is that accurate Dunn? I wouldn't know.
Says they're hard scum reading IV but also, they always scum read IV.

I thought Oka was less of a firebrand here, naturally on the same page I say this they go all scorched earth on Ythan. S_S liked his vote on LLD as a reaction test. But like, meh.

I can't read the auro through xtom filter, unless it's a 1 to 1 translation a lot is probably being lost. Is it against the rules to copy paste team discussion?

dogshit take
you cant read the 80% of my posts that arent auro either?
this is scum posting bullshit to fill out a lackluster reads post
you have one of the most active and supportive teams, and this is the sum total of their comments in 90 pages?
nah dude
you're scum

the auro/xtoxm interactions are what moved me from strongtown to locktown on you...

it's because oka's present and understandable and also cute and we have few enough people like that that we'd be making the game less fun by killing them

i don't especially think bell is scum yet; i also don't want to kill his slot today anymore because ive been told he is an easy read with a little time.

i think ythan is a good wagon because frankly i don't know what's going on in this game and nothing of value will be lost if he flips town. i am having difficulty generating and maintaining any scumreads i can feel good about, so why not aim for the "will always be null" pile. i guess i no longer think LLD is the worst yeet of all time because it would provide a wealth of information, but i don't know that i trust most of you to usefully parse that information and dannflor is probably getting shot tonight if she flips town and that will make me very sad.

i don't really feel like Oka is having as much visible fun? maybe it's because i was interacting with them around the Agar/me time when i didn't like the position i thought Oka was taking at the time, but they feel a bit less enjoying themselves

except you can parse the meaning perfectly fine if you're not trying to pick at a single word?
everyone knows which wagon came first. scum!hop would have no reason to lie about the order. likewise, as town i don't lie about it
so why's it AI? why does scum!hop say something he knows is untrue when it isn't even relevant to the point he's pushing or any scum agenda?
this kind of nit picking the wording of something comes from scum a lot more than town
i want other people to weigh in on this point. this is scummy af

even though i still suspect you, yes i don't think agar's point here is very compelling and it is the sort of refuge in logic thing that scum classically love to pick at

what about the rest of his longer 'case'
if you didn't like the point then why didn't you mention you didn't like it until i refuted it?