Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[PenguinPower]

YOU HAVE ONE EXAMPLE!

ONE!

[PenguinPower]

Agree that gamma's arguments aren't very strong but he does seem to believe them

if only believing hard enough made something correct

[Gamma Emerald]

and honestly, to talk about why I'm so vitriolic for a bit
I'm legitimately just

in a bad mood

. I was like this a bit yesterday, and I had events today that just made things worse. I feel like my feelings and circumstances are being trampled so I'm lashing out in a space rn where the consequences feel lesser.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Here's the thing: I legitimately don't actively solve early unless driven by emotions or something. I do this for three reasons: I'm lazy, it helps get through the most active stages of larger games where trying to keep up is nigh impossible, and it lowers my NK worth. That last point wasn't always a reason for it but after mini 2173 I realized I actually had enough impact to get NKed over reputation versus my play in that game, so now I deliberately sandbag to try to get farther, which I'm sure you've seen other players do. Flavor Leaf and mastina might be the leading names in that regard for me, though idrk if the latter qualifies. But the point is the fact I haven't been actively searching for scum is part of how I play these days, but atp I'm pissed off enough to switch to active mode.

if you don’t actively solve or are deliberately “sandbagging,” then don’t be surprised when people are suspicious.

- Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

and honestly, to talk about why I'm so vitriolic for a bit
I'm legitimately just

in a bad mood

. I was like this a bit yesterday, and I had events today that just made things worse. I feel like my feelings and circumstances are being trampled so I'm lashing out in a space rn where the consequences feel lesser.

okay then take a break from the thread.

- Daenerys

[Gamma Emerald]

I can do it and not be suspicious, is the thing

[Daenerys and Dragons]

and yet you’re suspicious here

- Daenerys

[Gamma Emerald]

and honestly, to talk about why I'm so vitriolic for a bit
I'm legitimately just

in a bad mood

. I was like this a bit yesterday, and I had events today that just made things worse. I feel like my feelings and circumstances are being trampled so I'm lashing out in a space rn where the consequences feel lesser.

okay then take a break from the thread.

- Daenerys

Not when so many people seem content to let what I perceive as a probable miselim happen.

[Gamma Emerald]

and yet you’re suspicious here

- Daenerys

which I honestly don't fucking get either

[Infinity 324]

@infinity
catboi’s post sums up most of it I think, have you read and responded to this?

Actually just looked at your ISO and you don’t seem to have mentioned this post at all, which is interesting because this is probably the biggest scumcase on murder so far, and you seemingly hard townread this slot before catboi replaced in. Is there a reason you haven’t responded to catboi on murder or engaged with catboi at all?

- Daenerys

I read the post, it didn't really do anything for me. Most of it is like, murder is making lazy pushes and reasoning because he's kinda being lazy this game. If you're interested I can respond to it in more depth

[Green Crayons]

Can you elaborate?

yyotta’s play here and prior games shows that she isn’t a very experienced player, so the notion that she’s an experienced player that is posing as a lost inexperienced play doesn’t seem to fit.

Also yyotta’s play that has triggered my “hmmm” senses aren’t so much her “I’m lost” posts but more her posts that don’t quite make sense—correlating suspicion/votes with things that aren’t particularly AI. That doesn’t strike me as something scum want to do (they want their votes to look sound).

Also, once yyotta explained why a wagon changed her mind on a player (murder I think, it was recent and I’d need to go back and look to verify but I’m on my phone), it actually made some sense from her POV which wasn’t readily apparent from her initial suspicion post. Which says to me that yyotta isn’t just lolrandoming her way through, which her posts might suggest (and lend to a “scum trying to pass as lost” theories), but is trying to actually hunt.

[Green Crayons]

Really glad murder finished that other game so he could have free time to continue to ignore this game so that the spotlight would start drifting away.

[Infinity 324]

I will say that the last couple pages have made me more confident in town penguin

[Gamma Emerald]

I will say that the last couple pages have made me more confident in town penguin

Why?

[Infinity 324]

The way he kept insisting you were wrong on that point (which tbh I kinda agree with) felt genuine and fits with what I know of his personality

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@infinity
catboi’s post sums up most of it I think, have you read and responded to this?

Actually just looked at your ISO and you don’t seem to have mentioned this post at all, which is interesting because this is probably the biggest scumcase on murder so far, and you seemingly hard townread this slot before catboi replaced in. Is there a reason you haven’t responded to catboi on murder or engaged with catboi at all?

- Daenerys

I read the post, it didn't really do anything for me. Most of it is like, murder is making lazy pushes and reasoning because he's kinda being lazy this game. If you're interested I can respond to it in more depth

I don’t really need a response to the points in particular.

I find the argument “murder could be lazy as town” to just be not very appealing. Like, anyone can be lazy as town. They can also just be scum. Yall are saying murder is lazy!town here. Gamma says he’s lazy!town. NM is lazy as both alignments. Everyone else is putting in effort. who do we elim then if everyone suspicious just says they’re being lazy town? there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. as a side note, I also intensely dislike the concept of sandbagging on principle. like, just play the game you signed up for. if you plan to not play the game, then don’t come crying when you get pressured for it.

you say let’s wagon NM but that is the easiest elimination of all time. I’m not concerned about deepwolf!NM. I am concerned about other players skating by because “oh they’re just lazy town.” like if NM is where the wagon ends up, fine, but I think that’s an absolute last resort. there are three scum, so I’m going to keep trying to figure out who the team is. both you and gamma do not seem to care that there would be two other scum.

- Daenerys

[Green Crayons]

I endorse 1090.

[Gamma Emerald]

@infinity
catboi’s post sums up most of it I think, have you read and responded to this?

Actually just looked at your ISO and you don’t seem to have mentioned this post at all, which is interesting because this is probably the biggest scumcase on murder so far, and you seemingly hard townread this slot before catboi replaced in. Is there a reason you haven’t responded to catboi on murder or engaged with catboi at all?

- Daenerys

I read the post, it didn't really do anything for me. Most of it is like, murder is making lazy pushes and reasoning because he's kinda being lazy this game. If you're interested I can respond to it in more depth

I don’t really need a response to the points in particular.

I find the argument “murder could be lazy as town” to just be not very appealing. Like, anyone can be lazy as town. They can also just be scum. Yall are saying murder is lazy!town here. Gamma says he’s lazy!town. NM is lazy as both alignments. Everyone else is putting in effort. who do we elim then if everyone suspicious just says they’re being lazy town? there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. as a side note, I also intensely dislike the concept of sandbagging on principle. like, just play the game you signed up for. if you plan to not play the game, then don’t come crying when you get pressured for it.

you say let’s wagon NM but that is the easiest elimination of all time. I’m not concerned about deepwolf!NM. I am concerned about other players skating by because “oh they’re just lazy town.” like if NM is where the wagon ends up, fine, but I think that’s an absolute last resort. there are three scum, so I’m going to keep trying to figure out who the team is. both you and gamma do not seem to care that there would be two other scum.

- Daenerys

yes, there are three scum
atm I don't think murdercat is any of them
NM could be, so could others but I haven't probed for them yet
I don't like the way you try to act like because there's three scum it invalidates our concerns about the murdercat lim and those pushing it

[Daenerys and Dragons]

literally not what I’m saying at all. it’s a bit hypocritical to call me a dense fucker.

- Daenerys

[Gamma Emerald]

finished Murdercat games informing my perspective here

Booneytoonz XV - mafia (traitor), survived
Among Us - town, survived
Micro 977 - town, survived
Micro 983 - town, survived
Mini Normal 2170 - town, limmed D1
Open 796 (haunted village) - town, survived

If you look at how murdercat got through all of those games you'll see a very consistent trend of town!murdercat getting pushed early and/or often

[Infinity 324]

@lilith The argument isn't "murder could be lazy town"

It's "laziness isn't scum-indicative, especially for murder"

I just don't think any of the points against murder actually make him more likely to be scum, and he's felt towny to me so far

Fair point about not searching for other scum, I've been pretty demotivated and should probably be re-evaluating my TRs. But also, when I have reasons to TR a lot of the playerlist, yeah maybe players like NM and yyota, who I don't have reasons to TR, are more likely scum

[Green Crayons]

If you look at how murdercat got through all of those games you'll see a very consistent trend of town!murdercat getting pushed early and/or often

but see:

And my issue is you can't say that he doesn't as scum so it's nai. Stop relying solely on meta for which you don't have an established comparison.

[Green Crayons]

my problem with murder isn't that he's being lazy

and i would love to lay out additional thoughts, but he's ghosted this thread since i tried to engage him, and i want to engage before i lay out thoughts

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I do wish he would post more since he said he would be, but is leaving the thread and "hoping the wagon dissipates" something scum actually do ever? Idk

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@infinity
catboi’s post sums up most of it I think, have you read and responded to this?

Actually just looked at your ISO and you don’t seem to have mentioned this post at all, which is interesting because this is probably the biggest scumcase on murder so far, and you seemingly hard townread this slot before catboi replaced in. Is there a reason you haven’t responded to catboi on murder or engaged with catboi at all?

- Daenerys

I read the post, it didn't really do anything for me. Most of it is like, murder is making lazy pushes and reasoning because he's kinda being lazy this game. If you're interested I can respond to it in more depth

I don’t really need a response to the points in particular.

I find the argument “murder could be lazy as town” to just be not very appealing. Like, anyone can be lazy as town. They can also just be scum. Yall are saying murder is lazy!town here. Gamma says he’s lazy!town. NM is lazy as both alignments. Everyone else is putting in effort. who do we elim then if everyone suspicious just says they’re being lazy town? there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. as a side note, I also intensely dislike the concept of sandbagging on principle. like, just play the game you signed up for. if you plan to not play the game, then don’t come crying when you get pressured for it.

you say let’s wagon NM but that is the easiest elimination of all time. I’m not concerned about deepwolf!NM. I am concerned about other players skating by because “oh they’re just lazy town.” like if NM is where the wagon ends up, fine, but I think that’s an absolute last resort. there are three scum, so I’m going to keep trying to figure out who the team is. both you and gamma do not seem to care that there would be two other scum.

- Daenerys

yes, there are three scum
atm I don't think murdercat is any of them
NM could be, so could others but I haven't probed for them yet
I don't like the way you try to act like because there's three scum it invalidates our concerns about the murdercat lim and those pushing it

if you need assistance on understanding my point:

- I don’t think it’s a problem that you and infinity think that murder is town. I’ve repeatedly said I’m fine giving him time. I’m not on the wagon. I could not care less about murder being wagoned today.
- both your and infinity’s reaction to the murder wagon was to try to wagon NM, who is the easiest elimination of all time (ie the least effort required to call him scum because he pretty much never efforts).
- neither of you seem to care that there should be a scum team of 3 and have basically put 0 effort into trying to sort anyone else beyond calling NM scum. this is incredibly lazy. and it’s not very town-indicative.

I have never argued that murder should be eliminated. I am currently engaging infinity on his reasoning for town!murder. Once again, your post is a straight misrep of what I’m saying. I’m in no way “acting like there being 3 scum invalidates concerns about wagon on town!murder.” What I’m

saying

is that there being 3 scum but landing on only NM is reasoning for scum!you and scum!infinity. murder’s alignment is irrelevant.

- Daenerys