Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[Prism]

ya linked the edit button ffery

Here's the Notes PT

[floo]

Haven't read private threads + I'm still reading page 78

Should reveal if Doctor/Roleblocker's identities if existed + night actions. Am interested in what result EZ would have gotten on N1 had he not died.

Well played to the scumteam. @quiet & flow trap, thank you for your effort on D3.

[fferyllt]

Haven't read private threads + I'm still reading page 78

Should reveal if Doctor/Roleblocker's identities if existed + night actions. Am interested in what result EZ would have gotten on N1 had he not died.

Well played to the scumteam. @quiet & flow trap, thank you for your effort on D3.

All of that info is in the Mod Notes PT I linked earlier.

[quiet]

I've seen a total of two things that make me feel marginally better:

1. trying to sort floo and flow trap together was going to be challenging, period.
2. Prism, you psychopath, you planned the obsessive/possibly even mod thinking play over the course of months of games?

[Prism]

My annotations did unfortunately take a major backseat when it became apparent I could no longer just do what I liked, but I tried to circle back.

Anyway, I'll try to avoid spamming the thread. I'll circle back in a few hours with the summary of what I thought important/give the individualized feedback I promised.

[quiet]

it was goon/goon, no doc.

Sorry floo, I couldn't find you. I really, really, reallllyyyy need to figure out how to better sort lurkey slots.

[Prism]

Now kids remember next time you see prism just link to this thread and then policy on day one If prism fails to catch the entire scum team

Yep, my notes PT was always meant to be public. Release it!

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12508280

This is one of the most detailed player notes PTs I've seen at MS! It's well worth your time to read it and refer back to the posts he's talking about in the game thread.

I almost felt like Prism was showing me how it's supposed to be done, after my merely adequate scum game in the mini normal we played just before this game began.

I was more than happy to put to rest any ideas that I was so simple of a read as our previous games implied.

[Prism]

2. Prism, you psychopath, you planned the obsessive/possibly even mod thinking play over the course of months of games?

That and a whole lot more lmao

[flow trap]

Honestly, I need to have a note forum next time

[flow trap]

At least Spartan was more suspicious than Prism was towny lol net positive

[Spartan117]

I dunno, i mean i was literally trying to look scummy after the prism vote with it having to be one of them, a risk at voting a slightly scummy slot over a guaranteed scum out of the two would be a weird move but yeah anyway gg guys was great fun

[Prism]

I really don't think Spartan is getting enough credit in this postgame.

I was the more visible voice, and absolutely pulled out all the stops to make the townreads on me bulletproof, but simply working through the pairings was

completely damning, and completely inevitable

for the scumteam.

He needed to make him/floo plausible for us to have any hope of winning that Day 3. And he did. I had the flashy role, but he laid out the red carpet and was the grease that made it all work.

[fferyllt]

Now kids remember next time you see prism just link to this thread and then policy on day one If prism fails to catch the entire scum team

Yep, my notes PT was always meant to be public. Release it!

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12508280

This is one of the most detailed player notes PTs I've seen at MS! It's well worth your time to read it and refer back to the posts he's talking about in the game thread.

I almost felt like Prism was showing me how it's supposed to be done, after my merely adequate scum game in the mini normal we played just before this game began.

I was more than happy to put to rest any ideas that I was so simple of a read as our previous games implied.

I will definitely be appropriately paranoid henceforth!

[unwnd]

Your notes PT seemed a lot of fun Prism

[unwnd]

Amazing to read and well-played

Stealing your idea for a future scumgame

[floo]

I'm open to playing more games on this site. The question would be my motivation, as a lot of times during this game I felt very apathetic and just wanted it to end and at other times I was spewing out lots of content.

I asked Prism why he pushed me to claim. My theory was that Prism looked like he was baiting me to claim Doctor. A scum Doctor claim would be counterproductive for the town (stirring chaos and all) unless a town Doctor existed, so it would be expected for a town Doctor would push me for this.

[Prism]

2080 explains why we wanted to claim and why we want the scum to claim first.

It's important to note that this became relevant because we had

mechanical confirmation

one of us was scum, which is what allows us to exploit the possibility of hunting for roleblocker.

Of course, this would never be relevant: but I wanted to show I was actively looking for mechanical plays, and I did consider claiming doctor and forcing a vote outside/bussing Spartan as the final trick up my sleeve, though I decided against it. I came EXTREMELY close to claiming doctor before I voted you, additionally.

[fferyllt]

PSA: Any player can request a Notes PT from their game mod. I generally make public-after optional in the games I mod, but in some games all notes PTs will be made public at the end. Redactions are usually allowed, though. Check with your future mods for details.

[fferyllt]

Once again, thank you all for playing!

Players, you're encouraged to keep playing newbies as long as you like, of course, but I humbly suggest trying out different games and styles, if you're brave enough and feel like checking out other game styles and sizes!


If you liked the "solve the setup" interactions with a semi-open setup like the NewD3 setup:

Spoiler: Check out the Open queue!

Open Game One

Load The Deck

(3/12)

Moderator:

Rockhopper

Minimegabyte
Not_Mafia
Battle_Mage

Open Game Two

Charge Me Up!

(2/14)

User:

Raya36

Ydrasse
DkKoba

[/quote

There's also the Micro Queue!

Spoiler: 9 Player Maximum, and all sorts of setups!

Game Slot 1

Moderator:

BBMolla

Game:

Superb Idea Mafia

1. 
   
2. Gamma Emerald
   
3. Jesse Pierce
   
4. Frederick A Campbell
   
5. DkKoba
   
6. 
   
7. 
   
8. 
   

Game Slot 2

Moderator:

Sirius9121

Game:

We Need A Fifth

1. 
   
2. Infinity 324
   
3. Flaming Fireballs
   

Prefer to keep things a little more secret, and try out a larger pond?

Spoiler: Try the Mini Normal queue!

Now taking signups:

OutWorldER's 13-player mini. Please /in for mini to join.
Note: reviewed by mastina and Flavor Leaf

1. 
   
2. 
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. 
   
6. 
   
7. 
   
8. 
   
9. 
   
10. 
    
11. 
    
12. 
    

[Prism]

Massive spoiler of general commentary/takeaways

Spoiler: You've been warned

I started out this game wanting it to be more instructional on the subtler side of the scum alignment. I think a lot of players think the only way to win as scum is to prove yourself super town.

One of the main concepts to understand how I was able to effectively convert this game into a win is

town attention span and conversational control.

Every single player was scared of me Day 2, and this led me to look for ways to capitalize on the paranoia. I understood that as long as you were paranoid of me, I could force town’s attention on me, bear it, and keep it away from Spartan. As long as I could get one more miselim, I did not mind being voted Day 3. I had set up plenty to suggest Salsabil was my partner for Spartan to use Day 4. The notes PT goes more indepth on this, but at virtually every turn I was doing my best to control exactly what the town players were thinking about and where their attention was focused. Innocent dialogues with quiet were in reality safely quarantining him, knowing the topic is safe and it preventing him from moving his attention somewhere productive. As I discuss in the notes PT, I actively looked for ways to capitalize on floo’s absence Day 3, such as by selling myself as town looking ahead to the 3 way decision and doing traffic control to make sure conversation is going in a favorable direction.

Two things combined to ruin my life Day 2. One, I overshooting my dialogue Day 2, becoming more town than I wanted after a conversation with flow trap. Second, fairy replaced in and completely shut down any chance of me letting Spartan go it alone, let alone setting up the slot to be voted.

Second, springing off of this concept is the idea of

time management.

Day 2 and Day 3, I was very intentional about using the clock against the town, publicly positioning as though I wanted something to happen but all the while content to let it run out, putting the pressure on town to drive miselims or concede to my desired floo vote without too much of a worry. Ironically, this almost backfired as Spartan got flashwagoned, but we survived thanks to Spartan coming in at the right time.

Third is the concept of

intuitively understanding what the other players will townread.

One of the things you’ll notice in the notes PT is that I have no earthly idea what to do early on, simply because I don’t know who I’m up against. As I gained knowledge of the players, I became better at predicting exactly what would be townread-or scumread-by others. Many of my “basic powertowning” posts I reference in the notes PT aren’t actually basic at all, but strategically using my understanding of other players to engineer townreads during extended interactions in conjunction with my more extended schemes. I constantly ran ahead of things I knew would cause trouble, and by describing or addressing them on my terms, would almost always nip them in the bud before they even started. I don’t have too much advice as to how to replicate this: This is a strength that gets refined in the fires of chat mafia. At times, I specifically utilized the same concept to engineer scumreads on me or issue challenges I knew wouldn’t be taken up, such as my potentially gamelosing bluff with floo Day 2.

Every single post of mine was crafted to be townread or scumread by certain people, often down to the specific word choice. This sounds like a lot of effort, but at a certain point becomes instinctual.

Fourth, you must

be creative in utilizing your town meta to your scum advantage.

One of the huge walls quiet ran into was that I simply had no scum record of playing this way as scum, but a very extensive one as town. As you are players lacking in a meta record for the most part, this is something that will come with time.

All 4 of these combined to deliver the win in 5 way. The first two were crucial all game, the third was crucial for executing some of the smaller-scale tactics, but the third/fourth in conjunction are what won the game.

I said this in the Notes PT, but

the Achilles heel of the scumteam was that me/Spartan’s interactions specifically were deeply-and intentionally-lacking

, with the pinchhitters and my own mistakes forcing me to swap strategy halfway through the game. I said that if town got caught up in my tone, and in my meta, rather than finding Spartan and working their way through pairings from there, town would lose, and this is essentially what happened. From my perspective, game was about town being able to find each other and eliminate pairings, which is what came close to sinking us Day 3.

Lastly,

be active as town, and be strategically active as scum.

You don’t have to take it to extremes like I do, you can have a life, but you can’t disappear for extended periods of time and expect to win whenever you happen to show up. This game had some strong and very active town players, but at crucial points the others disappeared when they needed them most. I don’t want to beat up on floo-who played well-but waiting until Day 3 to come around put way too much pressure on quiet/flow trap, both of whom were already dealing with enough obstacles from me.

[Krazy]

I didn't read or spec this game, but I think Prism's discussion of mafia play here is really helpful and very good so I will add on to the Prism appreciation here

[Kazyan]

I watched the final day and am totally stumped as to how Prism's level of play is even possible, let alone something to considered

semi-

experienced. How on earth does one process that much information and control that many people at once?

[Prism]

Individualized feedback, I'm sorry but it's not quite as indepth as I would like at points/have the backlinks but I need to head out and want to post these while it's still fresh. I would recommend checking the notes PT/searching variants of your name there to find specific examples of how I exploited the things I talk about.

Specific feedback:

Spoiler: flow trap

I do think being more open would have gone a long way, especially early days. Your pairings and wall were brilliant, and your reads were good (esp. on Salsabil imo, that was legitimately a great progression) but actively dialoguing with quiet, floo, etc. much earlier on would have gone a long way. By playing more closed, I was often able to leverage my appeals to you as “freebies”: +town posts that didn’t put myself or the scumteam at any risk at all. Imagine if you had, say, worked with quiet on a Spartan vote or been able to sell that more effectively Day 2. I think Day 3 specifically, you could have engineered a bit more from both quiet and floo. Your off the cuff style was a strength, and I chose not to push you this game, but you do need to be careful that you’re not making the kind of contradictions I pointed out near the end of Day 2.

Spoiler: Fairyprincess69

You ruined my life, I have virtually no words for you. You didn’t really play enough to have me give a ton of feedback but I think your reads were great, maybe a bit too caught up in my tone/emotional side. You pushing Spartan more would have outright won the game, but just the vulnerabilities you showed by pushing the slot were nearly enough to sink it. Easiest fearkill of my life.

Spoiler: Floo

he most glaring issue, as you’ve identified, is motivation and posting. Your team needed you Day 3, not to necessarily no-life it like I did, but to be engaged and dialoguing with them.

You knew I was mafia, so there was little point talking to me.

My perception was that you were in your own head about where you went wrong/how you got put into such a bind, which is understandable, but you had to push through that. You have good analysis, but you need to dialogue more readily and not selectively ignore things. I exploited this relentlessly this game and others will do the same. Finally, I think you had the right idea in going after me/Spartan specifically! This is extremely tough to do but you found it. Lastly, this one is more minor, I do think you could have sharpened your points against me a bit-had I responded, I think you would have found they shot you in the foot. That said, you were under a ton of pressure by this time, and making sure you got me exactly right was a very small worry in comparison

Spoiler: Enchant

Never selfvote as town unless you gain a concrete mechanical advantage for doing so. Never think of yourself as valueless or “bound to be voted later.”

Spoiler: Salsabil

In general, you were a pleasure to play with, and I found flow trap similarly abrasive as times. Simultaneously, floo/flow trap were right that your reaction was throwing gas on the fire. It’s on you to successfully link up as town, and sometimes that means really, REALLY going out of your way to accommodate people you entirely disagree with.

Spoiler: Quiet

Your weakness is experience, and in lacking several parts of the toolkit that simply comes with time. I do think my progressions were worth looking more into, esp. on Spartan. It is easy to look at yourself and think this game was won if you didn’t fall for the pocket. You fell for the pocket because I was absolutely relentless and obsessive with developing it, and this is time, effort, and public content that is more up to other town to punish. I think you had the right idea with how much you tried to work with floo Day 3. And floo was wrong imo, you were not some lapdog, here’s a quote from the wall I typed up:

“Respectfully, while I know this is quiet's to deal with, for quiet: You are not my lapdog. You turned the read I had on your slot around. You worked through the read on me on your own, and your vote is your own. You have real agency and have worked to solve the game all day, and have not been mindlessly following me, even at the cost of being wrong Day 2. And being wrong sucks, but it's the only way to improve. If you respect me and take parts of my game as your own as you continue to develop, that's amazing and an honor. The entire reason you play Newbies is to pass the baton off like that.”

While this was meant to solidify the townread, you had the hardest job in the entire town minus maybe floo, and it is largely true. It is easy to say "Fuck quiet for getting pocketed" when you're not the one being specifically targeted day after day after day.

Spoiler: Esotericzoomer

Unfortunately, being aware of what is generally +town means that you can fake it, and I think the most important concept here is “range”. Inexperienced players do traditionally scummy things a lot, experienced players know how to leverage traditionally town behaviors for themselves as town. The behavior itself matters a lot less than the player making it. The flow trap post was simply “free”, it posed no danger to me as scum, and it wasn’t even my intent to get

that

townread by it.

Spoiler: Frederick

You’re too caught up in semantics and being perfectly logically consistent. You need to make more room for plausible connections and make a more active effort at both understanding what the other players are getting at, and to be wrong in your own guesses/assertive in working with imperfect information.

Spoiler: Safebet

In the event you come back, I think you needed to be a bit more comparative in your treatment of players and answer more of the specific questions towards you, but generally I didn’t have as good of a chance to feel you out as I did the others.

[Prism]

Salsabil's got lost in Enchant's spoiler

Spoiler: Salsabil

In general, you were a pleasure to play with, and I found flow trap similarly abrasive as times. Simultaneously, floo/flow trap were right that your reaction was throwing gas on the fire. It’s on you to successfully link up as town, and sometimes that means really, REALLY going out of your way to accommodate people you entirely disagree with.

[Cabd]

Where is mine? And ffery's?