Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[Daenerys and Dragons]

dropping hot case tomorrow, pending mental capacity.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

idk how I'm supposed to believe that these posts come from town. "where is cakez?" come on.

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

why? I should be so incredibly easy to read here. what does cakes being more or less present in this thread have to do with anything? do you think cakes is more readable than I am? do you think you can convince him more easily that you're town?

Weakly agree on the first - I do TR you (contingent on my slot not being NK'd, by the way, because in the off chance that you ARE scum playing a great game, I don't want to let your slot coast on my TR. Visit the dead thread for City That Never Sleeps and you'll understand). That game I lost to scum!you btw - I don't believe you're as "incredibly easy to read" as you say you are?

I think I'd work well with Cakez. His lack of investment is a mild concern and I'd rather no concerns at all, but the stronger point is that I think an invested Cakez would be better for the game, independent of your own play.

-Dumbass

[PenguinPower]

idk how I'm supposed to believe that these posts come from town. "where is cakez?" come on.

- Daenerys

It’s a fair question. I don’t remember cakez’ last post.

[Daenerys and Dragons]

idk how I'm supposed to believe that these posts come from town. "where is cakez?" come on.

- Daenerys

It’s a fair question. I don’t remember cakez’ last post.

why? I should be so incredibly easy to read here. what does cakes being more or less present in this thread have to do with anything? do you think cakes is more readable than I am? do you think you can convince him more easily that you're town?

Weakly agree on the first - I do TR you (contingent on my slot not being NK'd, by the way, because in the off chance that you ARE scum playing a great game, I don't want to let your slot coast on my TR. Visit the dead thread for City That Never Sleeps and you'll understand). That game I lost to scum!you btw - I don't believe you're as "incredibly easy to read" as you say you are?

I think I'd work well with Cakez. His lack of investment is a mild concern and I'd rather no concerns at all, but the stronger point is that I think an invested Cakez would be better for the game, independent of your own play.

-Dumbass

he posted earlier today. I happen to be more riled up about my reads, and he's busy with rl stuff. regardless, "where is cakez" is kind of a useless question. do you have specific things you want to talk about with him? otherwise it just sounds like you're complaining that I'm too present in this hydra and you'd rather have the head you think you can convince to townread you.

I went and read the city dead thread. I'm not sure what takeaway I'm supposed to have from this? that was the first game we played together, and you've seen me in scumgames since then and even spectated them; you have yourself previously pointed out one of the major flaws in my scumgame which is (I think) glaringly obvious, and I don't think I've ever managed to fix it. I think based on that I should be quite easy to read. also skitter is, until this game, pretty much 100% on reading me. I would maybe understand if she had expressed similar paranoia, but she said she's explicitly not townreading me. nope.

- Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.

I thought you weren’t feeling it skitteR

@auro you didn't respond to this btw.

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

I know he posted earlier, and I find it a little stiff - unlike my experience with town!Cakez. I haven't asked "where is Cakez" by the way, I asked him to get more invested in the game! I don't care that you're the more active head, I independently would like him to be invested as well.

There's no reason to have something specific to talk about to ask someone to invest better into the game: I don't need to have to come up with specific talking points to get someone invested in the game. His posting doesn't reflect any real investment in my read of it. It is a complaint, but not because I'm concerned about you scumreading me. For the record, I sorta expect Cakez to scumread my slot as well, and convincing him off a scumread on me is usually way more difficult in my experience

The primary takeaway was an understanding of why my read is contingent on me living, and secondary that I respect your game enough to think that you certainly have the skill to evolve your scumgame. But yes, that is paranoia and doesn't invalidate my personal reasons to strongly townread you.

MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.

I thought you weren’t feeling it skitteR

I wasn't earlier, but now I do: MURDERKITTY has had enough opportunities to get into the game I feel, and it's been more than a day since he posted. Infinity and Gamma's reactions to that wagon seem a little awkward.

-Dumbass

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I just find it very difficult to believe that you read all these pages and one of your three takeaways is "cakes should be more invested." you also just said that you thought gamma was a distraction, so what changed?

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

It wasn't a takeaway from the pages, it was a takeaway from my discussion with Skitter about your slot.

Yes, I do think Gamma is a distraction still, that's not inconsistent with implying they have partner equity and that MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim...?

-Dumbass

[Daenerys and Dragons]

what do you think about catboi saying it's too obvious and that Gamma/Infinity are actually TMIing town!murder?

- Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

The Gamma distraction feels pretty boring to me, and I can totally imagine Gamma as stubborn/frustrated town justifying his actions. The emotional reaction does seem a little disproportionate, marking that for later study.

MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.

-Dumbass

this doesn't really sound like you think he's scum with murder imo.

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

I disagree: what other options do those slots have if MC is scum with them? What's a "more subtle" way of dismantling the wagon on their buddy?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

this doesn't really sound like you think he's scum with murder imo.

Oh I thought I mentioned it here but it was in my discord: I mentioned they have partner equity but independently I find Gamma's recent posting itself NAI.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

What's a "more subtle" way of dismantling the wagon on their buddy?

Perhaps a subtler way of going about it would be to accuse someone of TMI'ing them... :thonk:

-Dumbass

[Daenerys and Dragons]

that's actually an interesting thought, and I could see scum!catboi trying to divert a wagon off buddy!murder onto gamma. but then I think I'd expect gamma to be wagoned harder, not for that wagon and the NM wagon to continue to stall.

- Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

@skitter
this is the post that I think I ignored - again, I apologize if you think this was intentional, I responded to auro's explanation to me and I didn't/don't really think I can sort you properly and didn't realize you wanted a response separately.

sorry lilith - mad may not have been the right word, maybe i should have said like 'annoyed' or something
i dont' think you're personally mad with him either, to clarify

he's trying to take some distance to ensure that the game doesn't end up in a 1v1, which we both feel might have happened if he wasnt' actively trying to de-escalate

do you want to try to talk to me to sort our slot instead?

~

infinity, her post on murdercat and how she went analyzing him i think just abt never comes from (new) scum i think

~ skitteR

ignoring aside, this feels like you were reaching out to help me sort you. all fine and dandy.

i would like to say i explicilty do not townread the other hydra and i feel like lilith ignored my overture trying to sort her slot

this makes it sound like you made the original post to try to sort me (and that this is the reason for not townreading me), when I thought it was the other way around. kind of a weird reason to not townread me when I could have easily just missed the post? and I feel like I've actively been trying to sort auro which is consistent with what I've previously said about not being able to read you.

Can you link me a game where scum!lilith showed this level of proactiveness or emotion

i can't, no (i.e. i don't ahve an example)
but she's not quite feeling like town-lilith to me yet either and i'm currently trying to figure out what i make of that

~ skitter

and this feels like now you're trying to say it's gut and not the ignoring

I still think there's a possibility you're town, so can we discuss this? I'd like you to explain the entirety of the reasons that you're no longer townreading me, how your initial townread of me has factored into that, what you think feels different about me, etc. If we're both town then us townreading each other would only be a positive thing for the game. I apologize if I hurt your feelings by not responding to you.

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

that's actually an interesting thought, and I could see scum!catboi trying to divert a wagon off buddy!murder onto gamma. but then I think I'd expect gamma to be wagoned harder, not for that wagon and the NM wagon to continue to stall.

If subtlety is what he's aiming for in that hypothetical, waiting for town to pick up on it before making a more aggressive diversion attempt does make sense. However, I independently townread Catboi and this possibility just slightly furthers my belief in MC being a correct lim.

I'll respond to your post to Skitter based on my understanding of her thoughts, as she's not here (sorry Skitter that I'm answering for you):

The overall sentiment was that you were focusing disproportionately on me with a possible motive of finding easier attack vectors off my posts, and that your engagement with me felt as though you were searching for a logical "gotcha" to push us. Also, inability to sort Skitter!head doesn't mean you can't engage with her anyway, right? The continued focus on engaging me while brushing off Skitter as "can't sort" seemed to fit into the same kind of scummy thought process you suspected me of having when I disengaged with you (even if the posted reasons were different) if that makes it clearer.

When she said she didn't see town!Lilith yet, as I understand it's her evaluation of the rest of your content independent of that factor above. A partial timeline of her read was [initial surface level scum pings on your reaction to my earlier posts] -> [okay on further read, looks town?] -> [why is Cakez acting like we're unreasonable too?] -> [let's wait for lilith to come back] -> [why is lilith ignoring my post?] -> [she seems to be playing around me rather than with me? could be very wrong though], if that helps.

-Dumbass

[catboi]

what do you think about catboi saying it's too obvious and that Gamma/Infinity are actually TMIing town!murder?

- Daenerys

To be fair I didn't think infinity looked bad off it necessarily because his belief in his vote seems plausible, where gamma's reasoning for murder-town is poor and his assessment of the thread is lazy.

What's a "more subtle" way of dismantling the wagon on their buddy?

Perhaps a subtler way of going about it would be to accuse someone of TMI'ing them... :thonk:

-Dumbass

haaa, good one, I'll have to keep that in mind for the next time I'm scum~


Meh. murdercat promised to do things and is about to hit prod range, and penguin looks more town recently which makes murder look worse. I guess I'm in favor of getting a flip and ending the day at this point.

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm continuously getting this feeling that

Daenerys and Dragons

vs

Dumb and Dumber

is not TvT

[catboi]

What leads you to that conclusion?

[MURDERCAT]

What I'm seeing is a ton of shade being throw along with excuses to turn around on TRs when it's convenient. Voting me, voting TC despite a GC being a TR earlier, going back on a TR on skitter. The GC vote in particular was an opportunity to add pressure back to that wagon when it looked like things might turn towards him instead.

the thing is that there was a load of context and posts in between 199 and the post that penguin voted gc (i think 619) and so i think it's a little disingenuous to just condense all of that to 'voting GC despite GC beting a TR earlier'
i don't think he's long-term really changed from his townread on me either

my point was that penguin has basically no TRs and the TRs that he has we went back on

the "explaining what you saw" is the primary thrust of your vote: that penguin is actively monitoring the thread but only occasionally contributing

y/n?


please explain how it is AI

It's AI because town is more likely to want to lead conversation whereas scum PP wants to sit back and add pressure to something townled. At least that was my sense from the last game we played together.

Murder can you explain your read on the shadow/catboi slot?

Just feels like the slot was doing stuff to advance the game and whenever someone gets a lot of early votes I don't think it's often on scum.

MURDERCAT himself was the leading wagon.

This isn't true, I pointed out PP much earlier.

Ok having been in this game I can see this.

I mean you can see for yourself that it isn't this game I'm abandoning I'm low activity all across the site. But I think I've recovered and things have calmed down a bit on the IRL stuff (we are considering the possibility of moving to NYC in like 3 weeks due to a job opportunity, months before we actually expected to.)

Back in 2016-2017 there used to be people who claimed they could read NM, has that art been lost to time?

I read NM ok in our last game together, maybe I am a relic from an earlier time

Very conflicted. I think his posting isolated is very scummy but I also can buy his excuse that he was burned out by the BooneyToonz game and I did like his post where he cased Penguin. Would yeet in lack of other better wagons.

Here’s the thing: you ALSO saw what happened in Among Us. Tell me Murder’s play/reception differs from that game at all.

Ha yeah basically. If you look at the my scum game I'm actually way more high effort. In 802 I reread the whole game and wallposted a recap and don't get me started on Boon. If I get limmed here so be it, it's my fault, but I do want to play.

I'm glad you have a good sample of scum games to compare that agai...oh wait

When I said that I couldn't talk about Boon due to ongoing games

@MURDERCAT

what did you mean by “your one scum game”?
I feel like depending on this I have a solid binary of where scum is.
UNVOTE: because straight up stating NM is not involved in that binary

I was referring to 802 of course, I do keep my wiki up to date

And honestly the biggest issue I fucking have is that MURDERCAT GETS TOWNIER AS THE GAME PROGRESSES AS TOWN. ELIMINATING HIM EARLY IS LEGITIMATELY SHIT PLAY.

This is true

Ok skimming ahead a bit....

[notscience]

Not_Mafia

{2}

- Infinity 324, Gamma Emerald

MURDERCAT

{3}

- PenguinPower, Green Crayons, Dumb and Dumber

Gamma Emerald

{3}

- catboi, Daenerys and Dragons, Not_Mafia

PenguinPower

{1}

- MURDERCAT

Not voting

{2}

- Salsabil Faria, YyottaCat

Votes needed to Eliminate:

{6}

. Deadline for Day 1 is Saturday, February 13 at 2 PM EDT, or in (expired on 2021-02-13 16:00:00).

MOD NOTES:
Please reach out if you notice any mistakes in my count.

[Green Crayons]

the "explaining what you saw" is the primary thrust of your vote: that penguin is actively monitoring the thread but only occasionally contributing

y/n?


please explain how it is AI

It's AI because town is more likely to want to lead conversation whereas scum PP wants to sit back and add pressure to something townled. At least that was my sense from the last game we played together.

1. There's a difference between <actively monitoring but occasionally contributing> and <not leading conversation>. Your penguine reaction tests were aimed at the former suspicion. I don't see how you go from there to the latter suspicion.

2. Was penguin scum in your last game?

3. Why, in the first place, did you reaction test penguin for his active monitoring of the thread?

[Daenerys and Dragons]

that's actually an interesting thought, and I could see scum!catboi trying to divert a wagon off buddy!murder onto gamma. but then I think I'd expect gamma to be wagoned harder, not for that wagon and the NM wagon to continue to stall.

If subtlety is what he's aiming for in that hypothetical, waiting for town to pick up on it before making a more aggressive diversion attempt does make sense. However, I independently townread Catboi and this possibility just slightly furthers my belief in MC being a correct lim.

I'll respond to your post to Skitter based on my understanding of her thoughts, as she's not here (sorry Skitter that I'm answering for you):

The overall sentiment was that you were focusing disproportionately on me with a possible motive of finding easier attack vectors off my posts, and that your engagement with me felt as though you were searching for a logical "gotcha" to push us. Also, inability to sort Skitter!head doesn't mean you can't engage with her anyway, right? The continued focus on engaging me while brushing off Skitter as "can't sort" seemed to fit into the same kind of scummy thought process you suspected me of having when I disengaged with you (even if the posted reasons were different) if that makes it clearer.

When she said she didn't see town!Lilith yet, as I understand it's her evaluation of the rest of your content independent of that factor above. A partial timeline of her read was [initial surface level scum pings on your reaction to my earlier posts] -> [okay on further read, looks town?] -> [why is Cakez acting like we're unreasonable too?] -> [let's wait for lilith to come back] -> [why is lilith ignoring my post?] -> [she seems to be playing around me rather than with me? could be very wrong though], if that helps.

-Dumbass

I feel like this is not a very fair description of my play. I backed off of you almost completely, and at this point I’m just interacting with whoever’s in thread when I’m here??? I even asked skitter a couple questions the other day, but I don’t think it’s really my fault if those engagements aren’t more drawn out? Like, if I just don’t have a lot of things in my mind to ask her then I just don’t? I also don’t think I should be asking her about things you’ve done that I want to question; and she hasn’t said much that I want to question. My interactions with you are also colored, I think understandably, by 1) prior games that I’m comparing to, and 2) having weird vibes almost immediately. I feel like this whole skitter thing is trying to make it seem like I ignored her and then attacked you, but I didn’t even talk about or to you for like 10 hours of being in the thread - I was interacting with infinity and gamma, and your slot was nowhere near top of mind for me. I made myself drop it because I admitted that my interactions with you were based on a misunderstanding, and then moved on to other things.

- Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I'm continuously getting this feeling that

Daenerys and Dragons

vs

Dumb and Dumber

is not TvT

yeah why is that?

- Daenerys