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[innocentvillager]

he was pushing other equally bad stuff before that
i feel like he was either not expecting pushback, or he thought i was an easy target to shade (or he was just doing it to shade me)
it feels like something he's 'pushing' that i don't really buy the town motivation behind because the push is objectively garbage, everyone who's commented (basically just Dunn/you/me) agrees it's bad, but only i seem to think it's scum indicative? bad pushes like that where there isn't a solid town mindset behind them come from scum more than town. i'm not convinced he buys his own arguments, but he's hard sticking to them in a way that feels floundering despite it not actually drawing attention

after your omgus on unwnd last game i really don't think anyone could shade/push you and not expect pushback

in fact, now that im thinking about it, that's another point against a scum!AGar town!Hopkirk world, because what scum wants to push the townie who's going to omgus relentlessly over some little nitpicky thing

[DrippingGoofball]

AGar literally just 100% gave up in scum PT and self-hammered that moment he saw that case.

WOW

[innocentvillager]

fuck i really need to be productive so i will try to restrain myself from posting too much ikik deadline is close

[innocentvillager]

also, iirc SirCakez has town!AGar experience in Open 792 Masons and Monks, so that should also help his AGar read? idk

[innocentvillager]

scum wants to push the townie who's going to omgus relentlessly over some little nitpicky thing

to be clear i tried to say the "push" was over a nitpicky thing, not your "omgus"

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: LLD let’s progress this game

[AGar]

last thing i think: if you theoretically knew the 3 of us were locktown would it also raise alarm bells for you that Ythan is scum? ik it's a hypothetical but im trying to get a better sense for how you think wagon Ythan and Titus

also by alarm bells you mean this game event makes town!Titus more likely and scum!Ythan more likely, right (and maybe a side of scum!jj more likely)?

So basically you're asking if the three of you were ICs, how would that change my perspective. Short version is it wouldn't. One, ICs aren't infallible and I think more often than not people put too much weight into their reads. Two, and more importantly, looking at something like "hey wow this wagon started to burgeon and then dissipated and shifted rapidly" isn't just about the folks who were on then left the wagon. There's 18 players in the game. You need to take into account all 18 of them and how they play in.

Lld didn't get the reputation people have been talking about all game playing like this. I think it's lazy scum.

LLD didn't get her scum reputation, her "BoP" reputation, or her overall reputation?

haha im gonna feel guilty if we miss now i'm so not used to succeeding

I feel like I should, but I don't know your top choice? Is it Bell? Or am I missing something as everything blurs together into the most atrocious hellscape?

That would be voting you (being the top wagon) because my most sincere wish is for this day to finally end

Ythan isn't the top wagon? There are two with more votes than Ythan. And then 2764 is incongruent with "my most sincere wish is for this day to finally end," given you vote for *checks notes* OkaPoka? Who has *checks notes again* 1 vote?

That seems a lot of words for very little content.

This post coming from this player is :chef's kiss:

a side note that if ythan-dgb-lld are all town that it doesn't really matter which wagon scum are on

What inspired you to say this?

---

Someone remind me to go in deeper on 2814 and that "I'm going to say something but also couch it with a 'haha this is sarcasm' just in case" shit on D2 when we can address this scum once again.

---

But also, AGar literally just 100% gave up in scum PT and self-hammered that moment he saw that case.

Not entirely?

The self-hammer was to fuck up any potential wagon analysis and cut discussion short so there were fewer posts for associative tells. Once I saw there was intent to hammer and I was at E-1, the optimal play was just a contentless self-hammer so I didn't say anything more. We lost the plot on that game Day 1 when Pooky lolchallenged and that particularly fucked up how I like to play as scum, and I really wanted my partners to turbobus me on Day 2 once it became apparent we were going to have a pool with 3 scum in it. Basically Legends was a weird setup but also the first scumgame I had in something like 7 or 8 years, and I'm not really thrilled with how that game went at all.

[Cephrir]

I feel like I should, but I don't know your top choice? Is it Bell? Or am I missing something as everything blurs together into the most atrocious hellscape?

dgb, i was saying this because i was shocked i actually managed to start a wagon

[innocentvillager]

but also the first scumgame I had in something like 7 or 8 years, and I'm not really thrilled with how that game went at all

hopefully this scumgame will go better for you

[innocentvillager]

In post 2807, innocentvillager wrote:
a side note that if ythan-dgb-lld are all town that it doesn't really matter which wagon scum are on


What inspired you to say this?

because jj was trying to decide which wagon to join based on the compositions and i do have all 3 of them above the null line

[OkaPoka]

still busy but going to address @hop

i voted lld initially because i was starting to feel meh on her slot and starting to warmup to ythan again. deadline is soon and a flip is better than no flip so i was like whatever, join the big wagon. but then ceph reminded me why i was townreading her in the first place.

[Ythan]

I for one am not voting lld for personality I actually feel bad about her being the day one elimination from a people I'd like to play with perspective.

[Dannflor]

[auro]

1.
dgb's method of generating reads has been consistently fluid. look at her play wrt lld:
-dgb noted early in the game that lld's attacks on mastina were scummy
-objected to our slots suspicion on lld for not considering the possibility of performative town!lld
-scumread on lld came after #679, and mentioned the personal attacks, consistent with above

2. what is the reason for it to push lld so far, if scum? does scum!dgb think it wins the 1v1 with hypothetical town!lld?

3. corralling the town to vote, #1574, shows town motivation. it drives up participation, and makes people takes stances.

4. as far as i can see, the case on dgb is:
- motivations being read into how it has played
- appearance as compared to previous game (why the heck does this mean anything?)
if you have a strong read, you will come across as pushing behind a motive, ie, that of pushing you read to a kill (exactly what we have spent the day doing, btw). the tunnel is not out of no where, the path dgb took is clear. lld has also been following the motive of trying to eliminate hercule, xtoxm, dgb - and yet this is okay even if all are town?

5. there has not only been attention on lld, dgb has been regularly updating reads on the playerlist throughout the game, and with explanations not related to the lld read

6. what is the issue with dgb's case in #1810? i want to hear a convincing reason of why is it bad, not just simply a difference of opinion



@dann and dunn. i want you to commit to answers on these for future reference.
1. bop - lld has pushed {hercule, xtoxm, dgb}. i assert that all are town, and this play is insufficient for a scumhunter of lld's quality. you allege that dgb is scum. if dgb flips town, does this hold weight?
2. there have been many attempts for a counterwagon. with a solid block of players who townread each other pushing the lld wagon all day, would it be easy for scum to take advantage and achieve a town!lld flip, and allow the slots who pushed hardest to bear the brunt of the fallout.
3. jjh has mentioned that he townreads much of the wagon composition on lld, which makes it a good wagon. do you agree with his logic? if yes, which slots other than dgb are not townreads for you? if dgb flips town, does this view gain strength?

[end auro]

1. I don't really believe in BoP as a scum hunting tool. So, no.
2. This is exactly what my theory of the game has been and why I've been searching for scum outside of the main people pushing LLD.
3. I don't think a town driven wagon makes a wagon more significantly likely to hit scum in a vacuum. It depends on the context of the rest of the game. Also, I don't really believe DGB is scum now that I've thought about it more and I feel another vote switch incoming.

My turn to ask a question, auro/xtoxm. What happens if LLD flips town? What happens to your reads?

[Dannflor]

lld has also been following the motive of trying to eliminate hercule, xtoxm, dgb - and yet this is okay even if all are town?

this is a misrep and idk why you continually resort to it to push LLD

[Dannflor]

literally the only person LLD has asked to be BoPed on, and I think it was out of a fit of rage more than anything is mastina

[Dannflor]

the only two people I genuinely scum read atm are [titus, bell]

then there's a nebulous group of people that could be scum but I haven't and don't have the energy to sort them out this phase

I don't really want to compromise

VOTE: titus

I will case this in a few hours

[Titus]

Is there any chance of a cfd back to Ythan?

I know mastina's out of the question despite her scumclaiming, but that shouldn't mean we resign ourselves to eliminating two skilled town voices.

[Titus]

the only two people I genuinely scum read atm are [titus, bell]

then there's a nebulous group of people that could be scum but I haven't and don't have the energy to sort them out this phase

I don't really want to compromise

VOTE: titus

I will case this in a few hours

I'm just going to facepalm this...

[OkaPoka]

i have no time to shout out you dann and should not be paying attention but wtf r u doing its 24 hours left

[AGar]

When you like dann's pushback on Xtoxm/Auro but hate the next conclusion he comes to.

[innocentvillager]

Titus wagon is too unrealistic unless someone that's not named mastina writes a convincing wall on her and I don't think im your guy

if you'd like to be the hero, be my guest

my hero flanndor <3 VOTE: Titus

[AGar]

then there's a nebulous group of people that could be scum but I haven't and don't have the energy to sort them out this phase

you keep making references to "groups of people" in vague platitudes and never actually naming even like one name. Wanna expound on this group a little, or the "group that's not really taking a side"? Like just name some names if you feel it's too distracting to go beyond that given proximity to deadline.

[Bell]

These wagons are going from meh to godawful.

[AGar]

These wagons are going from meh to godawful.

Compelling.

[AGar]

Like we're fucking 24 hours to deadline. Just potshot bitching about "man these wagons suck" isn't getting us anywhere.