Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[2ndchosen1]

ahhhhhhh missed first day, apologies. was busy yesterday.
My work tends to come in bursts and be either really busy or nothing at all. joys of IT contracting in Retail/Finance.
Haven't read through the thread yet though

I am indeed familiar with Kazyan in IRL, and was guided here by Hayker.

[Krazy]

Post 240 in 1941 -- that's who kazy is reminding me of. Holden was technically writing that post as a joke but the overall result (a town wallcasing me that 'reallly' is a kinda nullish read rather than an actual hard push) feels the same. Obviously the tone is quite different but I think I generally townread people who write a wallpost about me that doesn't actually reach a conclusion now lol. Sorry I can link the post later but that's one reason I have kazy as pretty hard town atm. This post will make more sense when I can link it.

Pedit: yay welcome 2nd! This a very townie town so far so I'm looking forward to your reads

[Kazyan]

The emoticon debate feels very TvT.

Can you be more specific on which people you thought were town in the emoticon debate (italiano and harumi or?)

I saw the conversation as Italiano vs. Krazy, and that looked TvT, just as a gut impression. That conversation is +town for Krazy, but post 88 was -town, and thus still a null.

Regarding marci's pressure vote, here are my reads:

Townlean

:
IVD
Cantrip
marci

Null

:
Krazy
2ndchosen1
eth0s

Scumlean

:
Meuh
Harumi

[Kazyan]

Actually, you know what, I'm going to take back that Harumi scumlean and call it a townlean instead. Being a skeptic does not make you scummy.

[Krazy]

Spoiler: The link I mentioned earlier

This is the post I was thinking of -- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11059615

The context here is confusing because the posts actually read very different. I'm Wagonomics, which is a gimmick alt. And HoldenGolden is writing a wallpost saying to kill me, but he doesn't actually believe it and it's a joke.

But it's still townie for Holden because he is taking the time to read my posts and think about my slot, and he still sees the push as productive in a way.

Even though the tone/style is like, completely different, the motivation/thought process actually feels similar to Kazy's 109

This argument is probably too convoluted to other people to be very helpful to their reads, but basically I do think Kazy is very town atm.

Also don't mind his list even though I have Harumi and Meuh as town. I get why he's scumleaning them.

**

@Kazy, the one read of yours I don't really get is Cantrip, can you explain that one more?

[2ndchosen1]

I would call the emoticon debate certainly unhelpful, one thing that came up repeatedly in our last game was the discussing playstyle isn't really the most helpful thing for sorting scum.
The IIOA is certainly something but I would say NAI right now as it wasn't really distracting.
@Kazyan were the NPOM vibes from 29?

[Kazyan]

I would call the emoticon debate certainly unhelpful, one thing that came up repeatedly in our last game was the discussing playstyle isn't really the most helpful thing for sorting scum.
The IIOA is certainly something but I would say NAI right now as it wasn't really distracting.
@Kazyan were the NPOM vibes from 29?

More of posts 33 and 40, actually, due to their terseness.

@Kazy, the one read of yours I don't really get is Cantrip, can you explain that one more?

The first half of 101 looks like a real attempt at sorting town. His "explain pls" response to my post is also kind of good in my eyes--it was a hard query. Town are more likely to be bold about poking people, from my very limited experiences--in Mini Normal 2187, both of the scum had a very soft way of commenting on odd things I did as town, at least until the ELo at the end.

[marcistar]

I would call the emoticon debate certainly unhelpful, one thing that came up repeatedly in our last game was the discussing playstyle isn't really the most helpful thing for sorting scum.
The IIOA is certainly something but I would say NAI right now as it wasn't really distracting.
@Kazyan were the NPOM vibes from 29?

whats iioa and npom mean??? i dont rlly understand those terms.. (and i also have a bad memory so for anyone reading this... im hella sorry if me asking questions like this is annoying, i think ive done it alot )

i think the playstyle chat was helpful for getting the game out of the random voting thingy, do you pick anything out from it or is it too meh for you?

[2ndchosen1]

iioa - information instead of analysys
NPOM - NoPowerOverMe, A player from our last game

[Krazy]

Are you done with your catchup 2nd?

[2ndchosen1]

pretty much
I'm town lean on Italiano, Kazyan, and Cantrip
IVD has good takes, posts like 67 especially sing town
Kazyan's 109 seems to be a decent analysis of a D1 posting pattern on Krazy.
Cantrip's interaction with Kazyan looks towny to me.

Nulls for the rest right now

[Krazy]

What do you think of 101?

[2ndchosen1]

In general, I find it ok.
I don't know what 50ppp is but there are good questions in it. I'd like to see more from him after that post.

what makes it such a "pretty solid anti-associative" to you?

[Krazy]

Do you think kazyan tries to fake confusing their scumbuddy for someone who has only posted once?

[2ndchosen1]

I sorted people in my head into "active" and inactive", and was going to vote you, but then I remember "hey, wait, Cantrip had a few posts, right?", and I checked both you and eth0s to confirm I had that right. But then I forgot to change my text in the vote after I double-checked eth0s, because I was thinking along the lines of "wait, no, it's the other guy".

The obvious solution should have been to vote 2ndchosen1 instead of confusing myself, now that I think about it.

I'm willing to take this as adequate explanation for now. I might look back on it later.

otherwise, I don't think there'd be a reason to bring attention to that right now. If it's purposely laying a definitely not together story this early then they are far more coordinated than any mafia I've seen so far.

[Cantripmancer]

Townlean on Krazy for the openness of mindset in #51. That "I look forward to looking back on my reads" mentality doesn't feel like it comes naturally from scum.

[edited out]

I feel like RVS can safely be considered to be ended, but I'm going to leave my RVS on Krazy for the time being.

Preview edit: I will lol so hard if this is a Marci/Mueh scumteam.

this is a pretty interesting post

No, I meant what I said. Your 51 gave me

really

strong town vibes, enough to put you at townlean. And then a few of your other posts rubbed me the wrong way, so when I got to the end and figured I should move/remove my RVS vote, I decided I'd just keep it parked nice and cozy until you had responded.

It feels like you really dug into my 101; you've even brought it up multiple times. So why didn't you respond to my question about your 98?

Post 240 in 1941 -- that's who kazy is reminding me of. Holden was technically writing that post as a joke but the overall result (a town wallcasing me that 'reallly' is a kinda nullish read rather than an actual hard push) feels the same. Obviously the tone is quite different but I think I generally townread people who write a wallpost about me that doesn't actually reach a conclusion now lol. Sorry I can link the post later but that's one reason I have kazy as pretty hard town atm. This post will make more sense when I can link it.

Pedit: yay welcome 2nd! This a very townie town so far so I'm looking forward to your reads

I'm going to come back to this after you respond again.

@Meuh: My apologies for the name mangling.

@2nd: 50ppp = 50 posts per page. And welcome. What specifically about IVD's 67 feels town to you?

Right now I'm somewhere at:

Town:

Marci
Meuh
Kazyan
Krazy*

Null:

Harumi
2nd
eth0s

Scum:

Italiano
Krazy*

Spoiler: *

Ahhhhh! I obviously forgot that I put Krazy as a Town read and then listed them as Scum, too! Ahhhhh!.....or did I? DUN DUN DUUUUUNNN!

Spoiler: Because I Can Read Minds

Inquire vve do. Investigate vve do. Action! What can I say; I'm a fan.

[Krazy]

:3

I just think scum wouldn't do something their scumbuddy found annoying and wouldn't use that as a pretext for theater. If the buddy finds it anjoying + they don't get towncred for doing it, they probably don't do it

Likewise, I kinda think meuh is town for doubling down on the sunglasses emote spam because if like, harumi was a town invest then harumi would probably target meuh just so she'd know if she could stop reading the slot

Like meuh is playing anti-politically right now which usually but not always comes from town

[Krazy]

Cantrip were you writing that readslist before this page with 2nd?

[2ndchosen1]

I feel like whatever it is, defending himself or someone else, pairing people together in a group of three is a bit scummy. Scum like groups of three because it makes it unclear whether they're pairing themselves with two townies or a scumbuddy.

It just so happened that three of us did it. If four of us or five of us did, I would’ve paired it as such. I think you’re looking too deep into it.

He also kinda went to defend the use of emotes without really evaluating how different players were using emotes to different ends which is a little concerning.

Not a super scummy post, but a little scummy

I don’t like when people do this. Please don’t narrate and/or assume what I’m thinking (bolder) or how I’m trying to sort a player’s slot. Feels like a poor attempt to shade me. If you’d like to know what I mean or why I said something, just ask me.

the underlined vibes.

defend the use of emotes without really evaluating how different players were using emotes to different ends

This was either unhelpful discussion or a malicious attack angle on IVD.
Playstyle discussion doesn't find scum, focusing on messages and intent does.
why did you think the emotes are that important Krazy, that they required evaluation?

[Krazy]

Hmm, because harumi said they were insincere which tends to imply scummy. Italiano defended himself before he was singled out by harumi, which bothered me a bit at the time but I don't actually mind all that much. Good reminder though. Iirc I said the emotes were NAI at the time, I said italiano was a little scummy for defending himself from such a silly accusation, and now I think meuh is townie for continuing to use them after the conversation took place. I also have thoughts on you returning to this talking point

I think I have 3 updated reads now, but I'll post them tomorrow morning

[Cantripmancer]

Cantrip were you writing that readslist before this page with 2nd?

That's pretty close to what my readslist was before this page. Why?

Also: thanks for answering. I was getting strong vibes both ways with you, but a) your explanation on the Meuh/Harumi unalignment feels natural, b) there's another thing I won't talk about yet, and c) this:

Post 240 in 1941 -- that's who kazy is reminding me of. Holden was technically writing that post as a joke but the overall result (a town wallcasing me that 'reallly' is a kinda nullish read rather than an actual hard push) feels the same. Obviously the tone is quite different but I think I generally townread people who write a wallpost about me that doesn't actually reach a conclusion now lol. Sorry I can link the post later but that's one reason I have kazy as pretty hard town atm. This post will make more sense when I can link it.

Pedit: yay welcome 2nd! This a very townie town so far so I'm looking forward to your reads

...might not be a definite tell, but I have a hard time seeing mafia going to lengths to find/remember a specific post from *checks date* a year and a half ago[!], highlighting it as comparable to a current post, using it to base a read, and then basically unpacking it and saying "ok, it probably doesn't feel comparable to anyone else (and it was a joke post, to boot), but I'm going to persist in my town read because of it". Not to say that mafia can't put in that kind of effort, but not only are there easier ways to fake a townread (or townread a buddy), but that kind of thought process feels just as likely to attract scrutiny as it does to achieve anything else. So...

UNVOTE: Krazy

VOTE: ItalianoVD

[eth0s]

Welp I just clicked on preview at the same moment my internet randomly dropped and therefore lost my post progress.
It would feel weird to try and rewrite it from a "natural" first take perspective so I'll just talk about the things that interested me.

Didn't really care about the emoji/emoticon discussion. If anything it's something to tonally compare against later maybe. Not juicy read-forming material on its own.

Not terribly AI but I see little point in doing a readslist in page three of a mafia game. They don't really add anything this early.

This is the first thing I came across that really resonated with me and felt useful.

I was thinking that it was almost a bit odd for no one to have voted me around the middle of page 3 but Meuh did. I don't necessarily love the circumstances of the vote, but I think Marcistar said it best.

It looks like we're sliding towards more serious voting now. In that case, UNVOTE: .

Feel weird about this post because there's no alternative vote given or even discussed and it always seems a bit more than awkward when people state that they think votes have more meaning now and wait to use their own.

Meuh, given your reads list had kazyan as a good vibes townlean, why did you not move your vote after writing the list?

I thought about doing that, but I just felt like it was unnecessary and I didn't wanna give the host more to keep track of, essentially. Switching onto someone else to pressure them is a good idea though, so VOTE:

eth0s

I won't lie guys, this vote from Meuh I kinda don't like. It seems like shes moving her vote around for other peoples approval (which is what scum would essentially want to do). I think this because she switched it around only

after

she got questioned about it.. I think its an obvious attempt to seem town.

I feel sort of the same way. But at the same time I would like the vote if it didn't seem pressured.

Meuh, given your reads list had kazyan as a good vibes townlean, why did you not move your vote after writing the list?

I thought about doing that, but I just felt like it was unnecessary and I didn't wanna give the host more to keep track of, essentially. Switching onto someone else to pressure them is a good idea though, so VOTE:

eth0s

I won't lie guys, this vote from Meuh I kinda don't like. It seems like shes moving her vote around for other peoples approval (which is what scum would essentially want to do). I think this because she switched it around only

after

she got questioned about it.. I think its an obvious attempt to seem town.

My logic here was:

I don't think I need to change my vote -> Krazy mentions my vote -> I reflect on my vote -> I switch my vote, not for the reason Krazy brought up (my townlean) but because the reflection made me remember that voting people to apply pressure is usually a pretty good idea.

Yes, it was linked to what Krazy said, but the reasoning was my own, because I thought the action was most beneficial to us as a town.

But I'm also fine with this answer.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.4:

eth0s (3) -

Harumi Ayasato, Meuh, Kazyan

Harumi Ayasato (2) -

eth0s, ItalianoVD

2ndchosen1 (1) -

Krazy

ItalianoVD (1) -

Cantripmancer

Kazyan (1) -

marcistar,

Not voting (1) -

2ndchosen1

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 will end at 11am GMT on the 20th February 2021 - (expired on 2021-02-20 11:00:00)

[eth0s]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kazyan

[Krazy]

You doing okay eth0s?