Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[eth0s]

actually I like this more rn
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Meuh

[eth0s]

I'm not sure what to think about eth0s. His posts fit with a pattern of "breaking up the townbloc" and adding to the Meuh dogpile, but that seems okay for now.

Between this and me being null and still your vote, I am curious why are you voting me? It does feel weird when you've gone out of your way to imply that your vote is serious yet you aren't using it on a SL/SR

[Kazyan]

I'm being very sloppy with keeping my vote up-to-date because I'm shy about voting for scumleans instead of full scumreads. There's definitely scum that I haven't identified, and I don't want to help them sink a townie for flimsy reasons. The only person who has graduated out of "lean" territory, so far, is 2ndchosen1, and that's on the town side.

It's a good point, though. Being shy doesn't help the town. UNVOTE: , and I'm going to case Harumi now.

[Kazyan]

Okay, there's not a lot to analyze about Harumi. Harumi's motions are 1) starting the emoticon debate, 2) disliking Meuh's readslist, 3) backing off on the emoticon debate and calling attention to how Krazy jumped on Meuh, and 4) casting some doubt on me.

This makes sense as a scum move, actually: shade Meuh, back off to let the town fight her, then quietly shade everyone who gets involved in that argument.

Harumi

im kinda not vibing with, but thats probably because their reads seem so noncommittal to me.

Spoiler:

im sorry if this seems mean i dont wanna seem mean

what i mean is,
This is because a quick skim of Harumis messages i seemed to have skimmed over their reads (their reads dont rlly stand out as

reads

), but when i looked and saw 76 i saw reads in that post. Looking at the reads, it seems like "krazy seems town

buuuut maybe..

" "italiano seems town

buuut maybe..

" and "kazyan might be town

but maybe

" (that is what i mean by noncommittal.. they seem so unconfident with those reads. To me, it gave the impression they dont really want any backlash?

This is

probably just

me instinctively hedging, since I'm

usually

not willing to present something as an absolute truth unless I know for sure it is.

This, however, tracks. Emphasis mine--Harumi uses hedging word choice even in this sentence.

[Kazyan]

This is confirmation-biased as heck, but a Krazy/Harumi scumteam starts to make sense to me, given Krazy's attempt to pocket marci.

Pressure vote to see what happens: VOTE: Krazy.

[Cantripmancer]

Wait I'm stupid Kazyan is voting me so it is omgus. Or could be called that I guess. Meh, whatever.

You're saying your vote on Kazyan is OMGUS? I've always thought of OMGUS as specifically "I'm voting this person

solely

because they're voting/attacking me". And you talked about other reasons you found Kazyan suspicous, so how would that be OMGUS? (Not voting someone just because they were voting you first is a weird reason not to vote someone. Cross-voting naturally occurs all the time.)

Additionally, you're now voting Meuh. Your catchup in 146 indicated a little suspicion on Meuh based on their vote progression, but then you also say you like Meuh's explanation. But then I don't see anything else in your posts discussing why you suspect Meuh, so...why are you voting Meuh? Especially after going to lengths to explain why you don't like cross-voting/looking like you're OMGUSing, identifying a possible alternative suspect (IVD), and then voting Meuh (when Meuh is still voting you)?

[Meuh]

Kazyan, from what you've said, I'm your

only

scumread, and afaik you haven't explained the read at all? I'd like justification for it!

Eth0s, like Cantrip, I'd love some further explanation on your vote... I'm not sure I understand it.

I'm being scumread by a few people, but still have no clue why, other than my vote earlier.

I'd say I'm null on Eth0s, and as my vote has no more value in terms of pressuring, I'll VOTE:

Harumi

As for other changes in reads? Here you go:

TTT = Confirmed town
TT = Strong town read
T = Town read
/T = Town lean
/ = Neutral
/M = Mafia lean
M = Mafia read
MM = Strong mafia read
MMM = Confirmed mafia

Kazyan (/)
I'm liking them less than I did earlier, but not enough to warrant a scumlean.
marcistar (/T)
Still looks like a townie to me!
Cantripmancer (/T)
Recent posts have been looking pretty town-like to me.
Harumi Ayasato (/M)
I feel pretty conflicted on Harumi, honestly. Krazy x Harumi is possible as I mentioned earlier, but outside of their interactions with Krazy, I don't see anything too bad about them? Other than earlier posts which didn't contribute much, like starting the emoji debate.
2ndchosen1 (/T)
I do like their posts so far, but would like more to get a better read.
ItalianoVD (/)
I'm finding them pretty hard to read, honestly. Would love more input.
eth0s (/)
Kind of conflicted on this, not the biggest fan of their vote on me but they generally haven't done anything to warrant a scumlean.
Krazy (/T)
Krazy stays there, I did start questioning my read a bit yesterday, but eh, I still believe they're town atm.

Will be heading back to class soon, might have the time to write another post or 2. Will be able to more actively discuss in a few hours!

[Meuh]

Oh, I was switching around on my reads a lot while questioning them and accidentally left Harumi's null description instead of their scum lean one. I was very conflicted when making a lot of these reads, so they took me a while

[Kazyan]

Kazyan, from what you've said, I'm your

only

scumread, and afaik you haven't explained the read at all? I'd like justification for it!

Sure! I have had no reason to go back on my point in 64, basically. Your maintenance of colored votes after Krazy townread you for them has not changed my opinion about being performative.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.5:

Harumi Ayasato (2) -

ItalianoVD, Meuh

eth0s (1) -

Harumi Ayasato

2ndchosen1 (1) -

Krazy

ItalianoVD (1) -

Cantripmancer

Kazyan (1) -

marcistar

Meuh (1) -

eth0s

Krazy (1) -

Kazyan

Not voting (1) -

2ndchosen1

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 will end at 11am GMT on the 20th February 2021 - (expired on 2021-02-20 11:00:00)

[eth0s]

I'm being very sloppy with keeping my vote up-to-date because I'm shy about voting for scumleans instead of full scumreads. There's definitely scum that I haven't identified, and I don't want to help them sink a townie for flimsy reasons. The only person who has graduated out of "lean" territory, so far, is 2ndchosen1, and that's on the town side.

It's a good point, though. Being shy doesn't help the town. UNVOTE: , and I'm going to case Harumi now.

I just think if you're town it would be helpful to put your vote where your scumspicions are. I'm not asking you, or anyone else for that matter, for a read list (yet). Just as I haven't given (or even fully formed) my own yet. But I do think if someone goes to the lengths to discuss serious vote importance and what their reads are, their vote should reflect those things. I don't know if I really accept shyness at this point given how your voting pattern looks troublesome to me, but I don't think it's overly concerning yet as long as we can come to some understanding of what merits a voting action.

I think used to I would have already at least had you as a hard scumlean but I understand that not everyone has the same perspective or even voting priorities, especially when new to the site. I just don't want this to be a recurring issue or I will have trouble seeing you as anything but scum and I don't want to be there right now.

[2ndchosen1]

Meuh, I believe that you're being scumread as your listings are just that. there's no real substance to them beyond "THIS IS MY CURRENT POSITION". it's a weak iioa that doesn't advance any position or generally help. If anything it appears like an attempt to look like you're trying to solve.

@kazyan why does Krazy's "pocketing" of marci point to a krazy/marci team? I see that there's mentioning of jokeclaiming masons as there's hard townleaning. I don't see that as pocketing Marci as mafia can certainly identify town. I find it more indicative of Krazy than Marci.

VOTE: Krazy

[eth0s]

Wait I'm stupid Kazyan is voting me so it is omgus. Or could be called that I guess. Meh, whatever.

You're saying your vote on Kazyan is OMGUS? I've always thought of OMGUS as specifically "I'm voting this person

solely

because they're voting/attacking me". And you talked about other reasons you found Kazyan suspicous, so how would that be OMGUS? (Not voting someone just because they were voting you first is a weird reason not to vote someone. Cross-voting naturally occurs all the time.)

Additionally, you're now voting Meuh. Your catchup in 146 indicated a little suspicion on Meuh based on their vote progression, but then you also say you like Meuh's explanation. But then I don't see anything else in your posts discussing why you suspect Meuh, so...why are you voting Meuh? Especially after going to lengths to explain why you don't like cross-voting/looking like you're OMGUSing, identifying a possible alternative suspect (IVD), and then voting Meuh (when Meuh is still voting you)?

I mean, no, I don't view my own reasoning as OMGUS but I am just used to it being perceived that way without much challenge when one votes their voter. Which is a perception I was trying to avoid altogether but obviously something I cannot control when I am (was?), in fact, voting for the person who voted me. If your experiences in cross voting differs then I can see why you'd think it's odd for me to bring it up, but I am just being mindful of my own past experiences.

I do not yet wish to talk about why I am voting Meuh instead of Kazyan. And what I said about Italiano was so surface level that you might as well consider it a joke. I know that isn't particularly helpful but really I was saying based solely off of memory and feels that Italiano was the name that stuck out when considering people that were not voting for me.

[Kazyan]

Alright; let's talk about that, then. What merits a voting action in your eyes, eth0s?

Here's an example we can work with: I just opened up Cantrip's ISO, and his point in 145 has made me rethink how plausible Krazy is as scum. Going off emotions alone, I would unvote Krazy and leave it at that, but this isn't ELo, and we need five votes to make a decision. Thus, should I be voting Meuh instead?

I know that "shyness" isn't a good reason to keep my vote in my pants, but, in my last game, being correct about my opinions was unusually important. I was a 3-shot Vigilante. I got my first 2 shorts wrong--one of which hit a power role that would have tracked a nightkill!--and didn't have a chance to use my third shot, because we lost. So I'm comfortable with pressure votes, but committing to a this-person-is-scum-so-I'm-voting-them stance gives me "You shot PenguinPower and he was the JOAT" flashbacks.

P-edit for 2ndchosen1: I said a Krazy/Harumi team, not a Krazy/marci team. It seemed plausible to me that an SE would be thinking ahead towards ELo by making close friends with one person and feeling around how everyone else responded, while the newcomer just tried to generate openings. I am now rethinking that, given what Cantrip said.

[Meuh]

Meuh, I believe that you're being scumread as your listings are just that. there's no real substance to them beyond "THIS IS MY CURRENT POSITION". it's a weak iioa that doesn't advance any position or generally help. If anything it appears like an attempt to look like you're trying to solve.

Yeah, that’s fair. I haven’t played mafia based on actual scumreading in months and I’m unfamiliar with this website, I’m having a really hard time actually putting my ideas into words, which sucks.

[ItalianoVD]

This is a real quick hit. I’ll be back later.

@Cantrip: Why are you scumreading me, just curious? I think I may have missed your reason.

141 makes sense. There’s no reason for partners to do that.

144 isn’t good framing. I wasn’t defending myself and Harumi never actually said who she was singling out.

Is 167 a trap? Feels like a trap and it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

I'm pretty sure this was a miscommunication. Maybe the other players can vouch for the clarity of my response on this one?

I don’t know about that. I asked you a question and you gave me a politician’s answer. I will give you that maybe our personalities are just clashing.

174 comes from town

[Krazy]

Alright, right now I'm at:
Scum: 2nd
Not scum: everyone else

UNVOTE: 2nd

VOTE: 2ndchosen1 -- since the previous vote was a PoE vote on a null slot, I want it clear that this is a serious scumread and not a holdover from my PoE push earlier.

Goals for today:
-explain why I want 2nd
-Evaluate my not scum reads to figure out which one I might be wrong on

Things that might happen today:
-Possibly accidentally destroy a wagon on otherscum to kill 2ndchosen1 scum instead

Kinda hard to decide which is the higher priority, I don't mind if 2nd comes in with some more posts since there's still not very much content from him, but I don't want to just sort in my townreads and adjust my PoE if that means people get hung up on whether they should or should not be in an expanded PoE.

[Kazyan]

Whoa, okay. Looking forward to that 2ndchosen1 read. Sure, I didn't get town vibes from the first half of 186, but why a full-on "

SCUM DETECTED

" response?

[Krazy]

I'll get to that in a bit Kazyan. First I have a side question for you. I am going to do a readslist with gifs themed around anime husbandos and waifus. I am not sure what to do for you -- is there any particular anime characters you'd like me to use?

[Cantripmancer]

I do not yet wish to talk about why I am voting Meuh instead of Kazyan.

I can respect this, in the short term.

And what I said about Italiano was so surface level that you might as well consider it a joke. I know that isn't particularly helpful but really I was saying based solely off of memory and feels that Italiano was the name that stuck out when considering people that were not voting for me.

And...ok on this, too? I still don't understand the mindset of "Vote Kazyan! Oh wait, they're voting me, so it could be construed as OMGUS. Ok, if I had to vote someone not voting me, it'd be Italiano. Yeah, I don't want to vote Kazyan who's voting me...Vote Meuh, instead (who's also voting me)!"

P-edit for 2ndchosen1: I said a Krazy/Harumi team, not a Krazy/marci team. It seemed plausible to me that an SE would be thinking ahead towards ELo by making close friends with one person and feeling around how everyone else responded, while the newcomer just tried to generate openings. I am now rethinking that, given what Cantrip said.

+town for the re-evaluation.

@Cantrip: Why are you scumreading me, just curious? I think I may have missed your reason.

I was mostly going for a mild reaction test to see how you'd respond to a naked vote without reasoning. You get a +town for the evenness of your tone/casualness, but that's tempered a bit by it being your first order of business in that post. Given that it's not in chronological order with your other observations, it feels like you're a bit more concerned with my vote on you than your tone lets on.

@Krazy: I'm vibing with your methodology.

[Meuh]

Hey guys, just want to let you know that I won’t be checking this game for the next like 16 to 24 hours, some stuff IRL has gotten me very mentally exhausted and tired, so I’m just gonna take a break for the sake of my mental health. Hopefully coming back with a fresher mind will make me carry the game even harder

[Kazyan]

I'll get to that in a bit Kazyan. First I have a side question for you. I am going to do a readslist with gifs themed around anime husbandos and waifus. I am not sure what to do for you -- is there any particular anime characters you'd like me to use?

Any female gym leader from the Pokemon series.

[Krazy]

eth0s

Spoiler:

Husbando tier: SS+

A few thoughts: -- I don't actually understand this part of 146

I was thinking that it was almost a bit odd for no one to have voted me around the middle of page 3 but Meuh did. I don't necessarily love the circumstances of the vote, but I think Marcistar said it best.

Don't think it's scummy, but not sure how it relates to the quoted stuff above it.

I don't think there's very much AI in his iso before 156; I very slightly townlean the 156-158 guttake on italiano. 160 is interesting mostly because it'd be a bit unusual for scum to say "oh I don't scumread someone for *those posts*" when I agree that their scumread on kazy is reasonable. Still not very hard

160 to 162 in conjunction though is a very solid anti-associative for eth0s + 2ndchosen1 -- he literally forgot who 2nd was for a minute, which may not be perfect, but is pretty good.

Krazy your demeanor reminds me of how I often play scum

Still looking for what you meant from this post.

But let's cut away the noise:

Oh, the player named 2nd. Like I said it's much closer to feelings than reads for me right now. I like the way 2nd talks and the structure of their analyses. I think that biases me to feeling good about them. I feel based off of what little they have said they are capable of playing a convincing scum game.

This post is *really townie*. Like, high grade town material right here. The self-conscious awareness of his own biases toward how 2nd is playing is really, really good. I don't even agree on the take about 2nd's scumgame or range, but as far as quick takes go, this one really knocked it out of the park for me. High town basically based on this post. And if 2nd flips scum, which I think he does, this is like, really not scum theater to me.

[Krazy]

marcistar

Spoiler:

Waifu tier: SS+

krazys pfp do be cute doe

Very town -- scum almost never opens the game trying to pocket me for my avatar

just whoever doesnt call me beautiful is scum ofc

if tonereads are good, this is town

how long is the random vote phase thingy meant to last its so hard to make votes during it..

this again feels very town

I do agree with krazy that emojis isnt really alignment indicative.

It's good conversation for early game I think, but if it progresses later on dont let the emojis cloud your judgement!! I think actions > emojis

townie

3. I think you shouldn't stop talking if you can. Once the less talkative people join in, they'll be able to see that the game is indeed hella popping and itll be harder for inactive scummies to hide!! They'll have to give input eventually, while if the talking tones down, they might not feel the need to..
does this make sense? i hope i worded it right?

townie

TBH I feel like i'm tunneling you too much right now Meuh because we're friends.

townie. also good to know

I gotta be super cautious about them, but i don't think they're super scummy as of right now.

townie. also okay with the harumi read in this post

she's just town yo

[Krazy]

Cantripmancer

Spoiler:

Husbando Tier: A

As I mentioned early, I don't love the progression from 17-22 and this question

@Marcistar: Are you scum?

pinged me a bit, and that makes it hard to go hard town here

I've already discussed 101, particularly:

Preview edit: I will lol so hard if this is a Marci/Mueh scumteam.

which pings me a little, I definitely don't townread this slot before 101.

..might not be a definite tell, but I have a hard time seeing mafia going to lengths to find/remember a specific post from *checks date* a year and a half ago[!], highlighting it as comparable to a current post, using it to base a read, and then basically unpacking it and saying "ok, it probably doesn't feel comparable to anyone else (and it was a joke post, to boot), but I'm going to persist in my town read because of it". Not to say that mafia can't put in that kind of effort, but not only are there easier ways to fake a townread (or townread a buddy), but that kind of thought process feels just as likely to attract scrutiny as it does to achieve anything else. So...

this feels like a pretty townie reevaluation

Main thing for me though right now is this post:

Town:
Marci
Meuh
Kazyan
Krazy*

Null:
Harumi
2nd
eth0s

Scum:
Italiano
Krazy*

Trip having me as both top scum and town is actually really townie LMAO. I actually had the same feeling about Dunnstral recently in the Tenet game, I could even link the readslist where I had him as bottom scum and top town simultaneously. I think my playstyle tends to generate a lot of paranoia and this feels like a pretty townie approach to me. I guess if there was a point against this, it'd be because I'd already pointed out I slightly townread convoluted day 1 reads of me in discussing Kazyan, but I still really liked this readslist and the followup to it.