TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Dunnstral]

I don't agree with your assessment that Titus is preemptively goign after Mastina to defend herself - it doesn't make sense and it doesn't account for what she would do as town.

[Luca Blight]

Right now I believe the following players are Town:

IV
Mastina
Ceph
Poka
A50
AGar

y tho?

I've stated why I TR IV - the amount of effort and emotional investment he put into Yesterday's elim would take some magnificent acting skills and emotional fitness if he were scum, especially given both wagons were on Town.

Mastina reads to me like a tunneling Townie who absolutely believes in her reads, and is relentless in pushing them despite all the shit she gets for it. I hard TR Goofball Yesterday for similar reasons.

Ceph's posting seems Townie generally. This is more of a tonal read, but I might have to review at some stage. He was also hard Townread by Dannflor.

Poka has been perhaps the most proactive player this game and was solving with more and more urgency as the deadline grew nearer

A50's posting today has been Townie, maybe I'll elaborate on that later

Agar is antagonistic on a level that scum would most likely avoid. He is willing to make enemies in order to push his scumreads, and doesn't seem very self-aware of his posting at all. It feels as though there's a restlessness in him to drive the game on, and he isn't making pretty posts for the sake of blending in.

[OkaPoka]

u should elaborate on the a50 read, am very interested

[Luca Blight]

I don't agree with your assessment that Titus is preemptively goign after Mastina to defend herself - it doesn't make sense

and it doesn't account for what she would do as town

.

You mean that she would do that as either alignment?

It's something I've seen so many times, for example in a game where I fos'd scum!Norwegian at EoD, and the start of next day he comes out swinging at me before I could make my case on him.

Anyway I'll review Mastina v Titus again in a bit

[AGar]

VOTE: mastina

Case me or die. I want to have this out. I may not respond right away but I want you solved. No more vague meta statements. If I am wrong on you, I should be able to see you having genuine logic here, even if wrong.

This feels like Titus knows a case on her in incoming and she's trying to preemptively discredit it.

This is not a good argument

3449 is a bad post. So is 3473.

Thanks for the constructive criticism, guys.

I'm not here to tell scum how to post better.

[OkaPoka]

is it preempting if its a continuation of yesterday? because its really just a continuation of yesterday

[Luca Blight]

u should elaborate on the a50 read, am very interested

Sure. I'm going afk for a bit so maybe in about 30 mins - 1 hour

[AGar]

Poka has been perhaps the most proactive player this game and was solving with more and more urgency as the deadline grew nearer

What, in your eyes, is the definition of "solving"?

[innocentvillager]

I mean it's only a 6%, difference but compared to the bullshit we make up on the fly that's really good.

bell has won the game in my eyes already

[innocentvillager]

What do you think the odds are that we had significant wagons on four town players yesterday?

feels like gamblers fallacy teehee

before LLD and DGB were flipped? probably pretty low? (even though I TL'd both of them, i don't think my reads change the probability that much)

after they flip town? i don't see why one of the two has to be scum just because they were part of the 4 EOD wagons

[innocentvillager]

are you feeling ok?

you two might want to use this size text if you want to throw shade or anything but locktown reads at me. less people will be able to see it that way so it'd be far less embarrassing for you when you realize you were wrong and have to shamefully redact the badness of your inability to read me

it's like the two of you don't understand the concept of a townblock or something. mutual townreads smh

im sorry! hopefully i will come around on you if you're town, im just not currently as towny as you as some others

im getting okay vibes from you but im getting some amount of redeeming qualities about almost every slot this game so i clearly need to reevaluate what's real and what's not :/

and lol, i already know i suck at this game so i feel no shame for that

[Luca Blight]

Poka has been perhaps the most proactive player this game and was solving with more and more urgency as the deadline grew nearer

What, in your eyes, is the definition of "solving"?

In the context of Mafia, advancing the game by asking questions, pushing wagons etc in order to create AI information and trying to figure out who's Town and who's scum.

Why do you ask?

[Luca Blight]

Actually, Dann also had the Announcing Modifier. Can everybody ask their "more-experienced-in-moderating team members" what that could mean?

Did I ask YOU to give an opinion? Are you am experienced mod? Which one of your team members gave that response? And -most of all- WTF does the answer have to do with the question?

The previous game didn't have a repeated Modifier. This game does. I am asking what that means from the perspective of setup speculation done by experienced mods in Normal Games. What does the fact a game didn't have something have to do with the fact another game does?

You know what? I'll stop it at this. I was just trying to make it clear to EVERYONE how you are pretending to be engaged but are actually contributing absolutely nothing.

This feels like someone genuinely trying to make sense of the game and being frustrated by a lack of cooperation
.

Even in the most hallowed halls of believing vca is a real thing I'm pretty sure you don't get to say "because wagon analysis" with no further thought

I was immediately counterwagoned when Ythan hit 8. LLD and DGB were both town. Wagon analysis makes sense to me that scum jumped to derail the Ythan wagon. I have said it like 10 times.

I happen to agree. I am not as good as Titus in VCA, but it did feel weird that the Ythan wagon collapsed without a claim, and I did say as much back then.

Ythan is either Town or Scum. If Town, the wagon was either Scum-driven or Town-driven. If Scum driven it makes no sense for it to have sprung up to begin with, since both the main two wagons were on Town (and significantly more powerful players). If Town driven, then Scum would have -at least- tried to fish for roles through it, forcing a claim and then switching to LLD/DGB to force claims off them too (with an already established example). It would have also helped them eliminate LLD "for refusing to claim".

If Ythan is Scum though, this is reason enough for the Scum team to look elsewhere, since -at that point- Ythan seemed more likely to get eliminated than LLD/DGB, so they switched to Titus in a bid to rescue Ythan.

I fail to remember the exact formation of the wagons on Titus/Ythan at this time (and I'm too lazy to go dig my text file) but the one thing I do remember is that IV was "presumably bus'ing" Ythan and switched to Titus soon after. I also seem to remember jjh abandoned the LLD wagon to join Titus' at the time, which does coincide with the narrative I'm theorycrafting here.

I like the logic and solving presented here. I've played with scum!A50 once before and his play is so much better than in that game. It was a while ago so maybe he's improved drastically, but these posts feel Townie to me.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: jjh

[Dunnstral]

Do you have any scumreads besides Titus?

[Cephrir]

I kinda regret that already

[Luca Blight]

if i get miseliminated or vigged we will have fucking WORDS

You are admitting you don't want to play, but you are ALSO saying you will be mad if you get eliminated?? PLAY THE BLOODY GAME. SHOW US WHY WE ARE WRING IN SRing YOU.

Hint: It's even MUCH MORE SCUMMY when we are actually wagoning someone else. It's weird and inexplicable to me.

This is townie frustration

[Dunnstral]

I kinda regret that already

What do you want to do?

[Luca Blight]

Do you have any scumreads besides Titus?

Yes, I've already said I suspect Titus, jjh, Ythan and to a lesser extent Winter Flakes and Hopkirk. I'm also becoming increasingly suspicious of Bell.

[Dunnstral]

My

I'm also becoming increasingly suspicious of Bell.

My suspicions there follow a bell curve

[Ythan]

Did I ask YOU to give an opinion? Are you am experienced mod? Which one of your team members gave that response? And -most of all- WTF does the answer have to do with the question?

The previous game didn't have a repeated Modifier. This game does. I am asking what that means from the perspective of setup speculation done by experienced mods in Normal Games. What does the fact a game didn't have something have to do with the fact another game does?

You know what? I'll stop it at this. I was just trying to make it clear to EVERYONE how you are pretending to be engaged but are actually contributing absolutely nothing.

This feels like someone genuinely trying to make sense of the game and being frustrated by a lack of cooperation
.

This is a bad take.

[innocentvillager]

okapoka yells at infinity to ping Winter on discord to get Winter to move his vote, then this sequence of posts happens

I am here

what are the options? lld dgb and ythan?

I dont really like either of those options but if lld green flips we get more info I think is she at L-1?

this came at the same time, then there was a 6 hr gap until this post:

I popped back in because Infinity pinged me on discord after Oka asked him to?

and then he finally votes dgb

this is not how a scum hydra handles this interaction, imo

So it seems people were not convinced from my Winter argument so I will try to explain myself little more and maybe people can tell me where they disagree. The crux of the Winter TL is that:

1) Infinity didn't really try to fill Winter in on why they were pinging him, based on Winter's entrance to the thread. I believe scum!Infinity would try to at least assess the situation based on it being EOD and potentially advise Winter what the optimal course of action would be to not look scummy, or tell him to not. Infinity has been helping out the team a lot in general so I would've expected something more thorough if Winter was scum here; rather, it felt like the focus was urgency of getting Winter in-thread

2) Winter immediately just posted "I am here", when he TOTALLY could've delayed it/pretended he hadn't seen it or Infinity hadn't pinged him yet when he had made up his mind or something. This is also indicative of (1) happening.

3) Winter looked like he was genuinely trying to process what was going on in real time (more evidence of (1) being the case), and instead of committing to something or "promising to commit to a vote", he just called both wagons meh and ducked out. I don't see scum Winter doing that, I could be totally off base here but the vibe I get from Winter as a player is that he is more self-conscious of how he is perceived in thread and that whole interaction definitely did not feel self-conscious at all

[Ythan]

I'll sit and nod at being voted for my toxicity in that interaction but anyone building reads on thinking a50 is trying is full of shit.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Luca???

Man why did we have to lose both my rocks day 1. The SS Warthog is left without a rudder.

You, sir, are officially demoted a tier in my reads. You were suggesting we elim jjh instead of Ythan (which I don't agree with but can understand and would not have fought against) but you decided to go for a third person based on someone else's reads?? Why?? Why is Luca now a better lim than jjh/Ythan??

I like this as well, as A50 had already said he suspected my slot and so he would have no reason to take this stance as scum. A50 is trying to narrow the elim pool instead of keeping his options open, as would be more inclined to do as scum.

[innocentvillager]

*he is more self-conscious of how he is perceived in thread AS SCUM