TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[innocentvillager]

^ It's hard for everyone.

Job training for a month, 6 hours a day everyday. I'm not sure how it will effect activity besides negatively.

VOTE: Luca

No, you were pretty clear that you were covering old ground. You've had a small burst to activity but the takes are lukewarm.

Bell humor me for a second, what do Datisi and lilith2013 think of me rn lol

don't ask them if they haven't given an opinion already, probably not that productive, i'm just curious

[Luca Blight]

3814 @ IV

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler: Titus's problems with mastina's case as I understand it

(Btw this is more in line with Titus being a town mediator--it's lower-effort than her normal town mediator, but there is a notable marked difference between her mediating that game and this game.)


I could go on and point out more of the town posting from Titus that game, but basically--I could instantly tell that Titus was town that game from posts like the above. It immediately was her as I know her. Lower-effort than previous eras of Titus, but still very obviously her as town.

This game she isn't that at all.

Mastina quotes a series of posts from another game above this. What she doesn't do is state the difference. It's a long spammy version of meta and hoping people fill in the details.

Yo Mastina
Read this game regarding Titus

Are you...trying to prove my point in regards to Titus???

Because that game is immediately obviously Titus-town. It's her towngame immediately and transparently so, and I can point to the town factors that make her town which are utterly absent from this game.

Mastina basically says that there's certain things that made me obvious town but doesn't mention them.

It's another fill in the gaps post by mastina.

Mastina is literally just spamming and hoping you fill in the blanks rather than engage my content, probably because it's right.

Mastina's whole posting is mentioning various factors exist to determine Titus town from Titus scum and that I am not doing those things. It's an outright lie which is why she never details the factors. The closest she comes is quoting posts from another game and leaving people to draw their own conclusions.

And yeah, I get that Town!Titus and scum!Titus would be pissed off by it, like I said. I don't think it's scummy on Mastina's part, though.

[Luca Blight]

I was targeted by a babysitter. I'll be afk today. Spending the afternoon with a date online.

Why would you even announce that? What are your thoughts elsewhere?

I also think Titus shouldn't have been so quick to reveal this. It doesn't really do anything to help Town but potentially gives scum useful info, if Titus is Town herself.

[Titus]

I was targeted by a babysitter. I'll be afk today. Spending the afternoon with a date online.

Why would you even announce that? What are your thoughts elsewhere?

I also think Titus shouldn't have been so quick to reveal this. It doesn't really do anything to help Town but potentially gives scum useful info, if Titus is Town herself.

This is wrong. It confirms a babysitter is indeed in the game. A babysitter's alignment can be determined by their actions. The longer a babysitter lives as scum, the more associative tells it gives. The longer it lives as town, the more powerful it becomes. Due to its dangerous nature, the babysitter has the power to kill or protect.

If town, it's best used on slots that need sorting. If the babysitter dies, we get a useful flip too. If a kill goes missing, we get a huge alignment hint. This is why I think the babysitter is town. Getting info that a town can claim, thus eliminating a miselimination is good play.

[Luca Blight]

It also potentially gives scum a valuable heads up. This is a large normal, and the role probably resolves itself if Town, which I agree it most likely is. I guess given there's a vig maybe it's not the worst thing in the world to reveal it now, thinking about it.

Do you have any thoughts on my updated posts about you and Mastina?

[Luca Blight]

Adding Xtoxm to the list of my townreads on the advice of petapan, who says he's worlds away from his play in the previous game and in FL vs Hectic. Petapan also TR's Dunnstral.

[Luca Blight]

Town:

Mastina, IV, Agar, A50, Poka, Dunnstral, Xtoxm, Ceph

PoE:

Bell, Titus, Ythan, Hopkirk, Winter Flakes, jjh

[Cephrir]

I think the obvious answer is that he's attacking whoever pays attention to him.

The irony.

Ythan is enjoying taking refuge in logic against an illogical player. It's not a town trait, nor is the fact that this is the one thing he's able to post about, and I'm disappointed in oka for following it.

[innocentvillager]

I think the obvious answer is that he's attacking whoever pays attention to him.

The irony.

Ythan is enjoying taking refuge in logic against an illogical player. It's not a town trait, nor is the fact that this is the one thing he's able to post about, and I'm disappointed in oka for following it.

i kinda like this take tbh

[innocentvillager]

I've finally found some time to spend on Titus v Mastina, and I'm reminded of why I SR Titus in the first place:

So, my question is how do I fix LLD v DGB when LLD is largely checked out...

Hmm

VOTE: the worst

Mastina, help me bus worst.

Mastina, help me bus worst.

The problem is that worstie's the scumread of mine most likely to be wrong.

Doubly so IF LLD were town; the worst's chances of being town go UP with LLD town, rather than down.

mastina's scum with TW. The moment I ask her to lim a scumread, she backs off the scumread.

This seems like such a dishonest progression from Titus, and basically seemed like entrapment. Mastina had already stated before this that she was least sure of tw out of her SR's, so it doesn't feel like a justified conclusion to draw and instead comes across as manipulative.

That said, I can sympathize a bit more with Titus in regards to Mastina's push on her, which up until this point had been heavily emphasized but largely unexplained.

if Titus didn't already knew that mastina had worsty as a light scumread then it seems like a reasonable statement to make? albeit it feels tunnelly and not well justified but apparently that's not as AI as I thought for Titus

if Titus did know mastina wasn't confident on the worst (ik mastina did mention it but I think Titus could've missed it/glazed over it?) I agree that this progression feels like it could be in bad faith

[Luca Blight]

Mastina pointed it out in 1975 which Titus never directly addresses, and then Titus goes on to present the same opinion in 2141

[jjh927]

I'm feeling a bit lost rn

There's no-one I'm happy voting for rn

[Hopkirk]

hop, i have agar as like a weaker townread
i thought he was pretty scummy for large parts of yday but towards the end he picked up and looked better
i did like that he tried to push things away from both of lld and dgb given what we now know abt that.

given lld died he didn't try especially hard
like he was pushing me with a shitpush that every person who commented on it said it was a terrible push. that's not 'trying' to divert a wagon

reading up to your later list i see that weaker townread is 6-7th from the bottom. does his later posting quoted below move him down for you?

do you not get the concept of locktown or something

Yes, I just think

you locktown people too easily

. I think you're town probably making another early clear based off of an assumption of what someone is and isn't capable of. Based on Hercules own posting they seem to take pride in their play as either alignment. Appearing different is a very difficult line to toe, I certainly can't do it. But that doesn't mean Hercule couldn't.

ouch
have you read any of the previous game? it's hard to argue that he's 100% different if you haven't read his stuff before this game. like if you got the impression of someone who takes pride in it imagine that magnified * 100

3449 is a bad post. So is 3473.

Right now I believe the following players are Town:

IV
Mastina
Ceph
Poka
A50
AGar

y tho?

Based on the D1 wagons I think it's unlikely both Titus and Ythan are scum, and right now I'm leaning towards Titus being the more likely of the two as her play seems more calculated than Ythan's.

why do either of them have to be scum..?

What do you think the odds are that we had significant wagons on four town players yesterday?

at no point am i saying it's a joke

(obviously this is meant to be sarcastic)

*whistles*

how are the lld voters really claiming their wagon on lld was pure when they couldnt explain why she was scum, just why she wasnt town

Because self examination would ruin their circle jerk.

3 in (Titus/Agar/Bell/Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned), Oka, JJH, Ythan, A50) + deepwolf?

You're shading *checks notes* more than half of the living playerlist.

Spicy!

I also know that replace outs are statistically more likely to be mafia.

You, uh, wanna back up this bullshit somehow?

sarcasm and joke do not make the same things. it's obvious that i'm making fun of your argument because it's bad/showing why it's bad (since you're doing the same thing). sarcasm = i don't think that the thing is scummy... which i assume you agree with given you're doing it? or not because you aren't sincere here

so the stuff in huge text - can anyone prove that Agar doesn't understand the concept of a POE despite me having one last game and every game i play? i refuse to believe he doesn't understand this with that join date...

like how can the large stuff be said in good faith? this is a question for anyone not on agar. i don't care if he did some town stuff from certain povs, this can't be argued seriously from the position of someone who actually thinks it rather than someone who's seen nobody cares that what he says is nonsensical and realizes he doesn't have to make sense. like he's not even trying to make sense and why am i the only person with me vote here???

[Hopkirk]

I mean it's only a 6%, difference but compared to the bullshit we make up on the fly that's really good.

bell has won the game in my eyes already

yeah like Bell can you not break the unwritten rule of mafia that nobody points out that most of our reads are only marginally above random?
(we vote at something slightly above what EVs would suggest i think? i remember reading something on that)

i think {OkaPoka, mastina, A50, Dunnstral, AGar, Winter} is more likely to be town than the list of everyone else and that's essentially where im at in reads

why most of these?
(i agree on Mastina/Dunn)

AGar we've talked about before 2821, 2833, 2845, 2848, 2850 and I don't necessarily see any reasons to change my current evaluation of him as it stands. He has kind of continued the activity and direct/confrontational posting on D2 that I felt I saw towards EOD1. With DGB's townflip and SirCakez from its team leaning town on AGar (having hard-caught scum!AGar recently), that gives me a little bit more confidence on AGar as well

I am definitely open to re-evaluating him, are there specific things I should look at?

Winter I've talked about

OkaPoka - Oka feels kind of like me this game, in that if he is scum, he has been faking all the highs and lows of the deadline scramble, being present when it's urgent, and actively pushing the town to be productive at times when it felt pretty natural to do so. His confidence and excitement on pushing DGB especially when the major wagons we've revealed have all been town feels like an unnecessary amount of weight to be putting behind an elimination, although I'll admit that this could be agenda-motivated because without him DGB probably doesn't become a wagon so maybe NAI. I feel like Oka is more of a town player from his style and I don't believe he can deepwolf this convincingly as scum (if I'm wrong, please link me a game and let me know), nor is he as incentivized to anymore with his team already losing Black Flag. If he's scum I'm kind of fine letting him keep being himself and just get more readable over time. But I'm also open to reconsidering here that he's for some reason decided to effort and play the deepwolf here.

A50 - mostly a tonal read and my teammate Gypyx thinks he can read A50 reasonably well and also thinks he's town. I think the increased urgency of A50 as we go into D2 with 3 townflips with all the varied, urgent thoughts he is putting out seems town!indicative. My experience with scum!A50 is that he kind of fades into the background and I remember lol!writing him off as town because it looked like he was just doing his own thing the whole game. The crux of the A50 scumgame from what I remember is looking busy and that's not at all what I'm seeing when he's engaged with thread. I am also open to re-evaluating here because I don't know if I put that much stock into my half-hearted meta.

i'm not really sure why i asked this actually because i don't see myself being convinced on anyone i haven't reread because a reason you have is only ever going to be like a parahraph unless you're hard casing which feels less useful to me than my thoughts that i have few of there tbh
i'll look back at agar and highlight stuff/respond to your quoted ones over the weekend. like your point in 2850 he didn't get pushed by anyone else for it so the idea that he wouldn't go for it because of pushback isn't really convincing

pls explain how your system works

I list all possible formations of a 4-members scum team and then look for posts that are unlikely to come from a partner. For example, let's say X makes a post about Y that is really offensive and Y reports them, or that X & Y are run up and are at 6 votes each and then Z decides to to switch from voting X to voting Y. I would deduce Y isn't partners with X or Z (or let's say very unlikely to be), so I eliminate all teams that would include Y with either/or X/Z as partners.

Serious hint: DON'T DO IT. It's VERY wearisome, and you're likely to make a mistake that would force you to either repeat from the start or simply call it quits.

OR explain why you think there's 3 scum instead of the 4-5 you'd expect at these numbers?

This one I don't understand so can't respond to, Where did I say there are only 3 scums?

i don't think i like anyone who has confident readlists immediately after the day starts (except Dunn) because why would you reread at night

I don't care what you like/dislike. I play my own way and not to please you (or anyone else), with all due respect.

I also don't know how to feel about the last part (because why would you reread at night). I want to win the game, and I have a flip by the end of the day (something I didn't have all through the game while the day lasted) so why the hell

wouldn't

I reread with the new info for who pushed whom at what time.. etc.? Even during twilight (which I didn't even witness, but theoretically speaking..) I still wouldn't have known -for sure- the alignment of the eliminated player, so can't deduce much from someone's push on them or someone's defence of them.

So, a reread during the night in a LARGE game which I CARE about winning sounds like a must-do to me. I'm surprised YOU didn't do that, tbh.

so my question is that i can't tell what your system is saying. my assumption was that a (2) meant 2 of these people and a (1) meant 1 of these people for 3 total. if that's not how it works, which i assumed it wasn't because assuming 3 scum would have been weird, then how does it actually work? i can't tell what the '2 scumteams' are that you're modelling from it

when i say like/dislike i mean not sus/sus
i don't hard reread at night because of nightkills + not liking the feeling of wasted effort. sometimes i skim. i skimmed some stuff but no full hard isoing or meta stuff

A50 were the multiple pages of you not getting the setup you joking or serious?

I was serious, but let's not start that again. I brain farted and had two separate thought processes going on in the back of my mind in parallel and they never intersected. (parallel

lines

thoughts never meet)

ooh that's the + town answer (that it was serious)

how has nobody gone through all the wagons and counterwagons yet?

THAT is part of why a reread during the night is a must. Whether you vocalize your thoughts explicitly or use them to form reads is your own choice.

you uh, can't post at night. if anyone did it overnight then they didn't post an analysis in the day

[Hopkirk]

I'm talking overall. I don't recall A50 ever being terribly active. He just struggles to fake solve or has memory/engagement issues.
But I really think it's better if he just says it himself. Since he might not see himself that way. For me it seems reliable as a tell for A50 tho.

The question (of Poka) is a trap on itself. I cannot "meta" myself because self-meta is scummy for some and simply unreliable for others (and they're roght, as if you are self-aware you certainly

can

replicate your town-play as scum).

There's ALSO another -more serious- problem: "I only do this as Town" could (and most likely would) be considered a

trust tell

and would lead to a mod-kill on my slot.

Last (but not least) I don't really care if I'm SR'd by Oka (or even

Hop, who claimed that he had a Town Lean on me towards the end of D1m but is back to questioning others' TRs on me today

) *Shrug*

this is a very odd way of phrasing that i have you in an 8/9 person POE after shifting three people from my scumpool (Ceph/Dunn/LLD) out of it. why are you complaining

[OkaPoka]

Ceph why do you think i keep asking a50 to stop teeing ythan up

[OkaPoka]

Luca I can't find why u voted bell. Is it just omgusing

[Hopkirk]

going to sleep now but going to give you some things to chew on

im saying ur push is just so bad it makes life for a scum ythan easy.

Wait! Are you saying you think I'm Town pushing Scum Ythan and you choose to vote me over him?? because you

still

claim to SR him, and I don't think anyone in this game (or even on the whole of this galaxy) can think I am Scum

with

Ythan. So, if you SR him still you must -at least- be "weirded out" by me, but not outright SRing me. Is this correct???

No. I scumread both of you, both of you are in my cull pile, one of you is probably town here. I just really disliked your ythan push even if i agree that ythan needs a push. How about we do a deal where we let someone else push ythan because i really don't know what to do when you do pushes that make no sense and are clearly flawed.

like do you not see how ythan is just quoting every post you make and making a snide comment

that's like 90% of his iso today

And what do you suggest I do? Stop posting? Give up and eat rope? Stop posting content and go back to shitposting?? Seriously, what do you think I should do to please you, dear sir?

i know you are being emphatic but:

i don't want to stop you for contenting. i just want you to post better. how? idk. u aren't being very readable when you go off on your wild ideas that require multiple leaps to follow. fix that i guess lol

sleep now

ill do this for you

VOTE: jjh

is there a specific reason you think not SvS?

I was targeted by a babysitter. I'll be afk today. Spending the afternoon with a date online.

Why would you even announce that? What are your thoughts elsewhere?

I also think Titus shouldn't have been so quick to reveal this. It doesn't really do anything to help Town but potentially gives scum useful info, if Titus is Town herself.

This is wrong. It confirms a babysitter is indeed in the game. A babysitter's alignment can be determined by their actions. The longer a babysitter lives as scum, the more associative tells it gives. The longer it lives as town, the more powerful it becomes. Due to its dangerous nature, the babysitter has the power to kill or protect.

If town, it's best used on slots that need sorting. If the babysitter dies, we get a useful flip too. If a kill goes missing, we get a huge alignment hint. This is why I think the babysitter is town. Getting info that a town can claim, thus eliminating a miselimination is good play.

scum babysitters options are
- target someone under sus to make it look like they're town babysitter targetting someone sus
- target someone not sus to make it look like they're town babysiter targtting someone not sus
- get a kill on someone they're afraid of
- protect a partner (seems dumb)

am i missing anything?

i was going to say babysitter 100% town until i thought about it and realized point 1 there is probably what a scum babysitter would do when the target is informed unless they had a good reason otherwise so 1 night's worth of targetting is basically not AI as there's only one data point and the motivation is essentially not distinguishable

does this sound right theory?

Town:

Mastina, IV, Agar, A50, Poka, Dunnstral, Xtoxm, Ceph

PoE:

Bell, Titus, Ythan, Hopkirk, Winter Flakes, jjh

there's a name in your PoE that shouldn't be in your PoE.
gee i sure miss Hercule

[Titus]

Do you have any thoughts on my updated posts about you and Mastina?

You needed more time and data to determine your read on mastina. That makes sense. We need her case to read her. The fact you seem to have a problem with me wanting to hold her accountable is astonishing.

Mastina's only contributions have been a wrong push on LLD and a wrong push on me. I'm being charitable there.

[Titus]

i was going to say babysitter 100% town until i thought about it and realized point 1 there is probably what a scum babysitter would do when the target is informed unless they had a good reason otherwise so 1 night's worth of targetting is basically not AI as there's only one data point and the motivation is essentially not distinguishable

does this sound right theory?

The longer a babysitter lives. The more readable it is. Yes.

[OkaPoka]

I dont think ythan nor a50 would care enough to do svs here

[Titus]

Can someone engage me on Ceph? His vote on me came out of left field. We were largely vibing so him getting off Ythan to vote me is off. Particularly with his tone.

[Titus]

I dont think ythan nor a50 would care enough to do svs here

I concur.

[OkaPoka]

I think even is ceph is scum he'll townside for now and help us purge some slots so idc about going there