Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[Menalque]

So u being very keen to take cred for the wagon today means that while it’s prob +town there’s lots of reasons if you lead on scum tomo for anyone alive with you in panic room to be v paranoid about it

[Menalque]

Idk this shouldn’t be taken too seriously until I’ve actually read up

But I do think it’s fair to just make the point that if u end up in lylo on like D4 and you’ve lead on 2 scum in fairly short succession I can v much see you as scum in that endgame

[Menalque]

I guess the most likely alternative is that my wagon is scum motivated and scum just don’t have/haven’t really had any play this game so even with trying to resist and refusing to bus they still couldn’t get gamma through

In which case probably just limming in (D&D, yyotta, GC) is winning

[Menalque]

Maybe with me first if the slot is that bad and DnD is obviously town

[Menalque]

Incidentally, I hate very much that both hydras decided to go for the same acronym

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I claim not our fault, plz see join date.

which D&D are you proposing to elim?

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

mena the eod wagons on both slots were very sluggish, and the gamma wagon came into being well, well, well after i started pushing MURDERKITTY

like i understand the logic the timeline doesn't add up (like you're using the fact that the eod cw was on yoru slot, so he must have been bussed, but i was voting him weeeeeellllllll before your wagon ever became a thing, so the timeline is backwards)

and i'm not trying to take cred for the scumflip per se, but you asked for an interaction taht makes me townie that p clearly is it ... like i don't think it's accurate to say that i'm 'very keen to take credit' for the wagon when i'm answering your question that prompted such a response

i also don't entirely get what the motivation would be for lolhardbussing MURDERKITTY there

~ skitteR

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I think that’s supposed to be me - in which case: I think I’m pretty far out of my scumrange, I was scumreading gamma for what felt like incredibly bad faith responses to me, infinity should also be in the elimpool given how skittish he was of murder wagon until the end, and I highly doubt that both other scum were on gamma at eod, especially given that... I know I’m town.

- Daenerys

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

[Daenerys and Dragons]

coincidentally (or maybe not coincidentally) I only started pushing gamma after he tried to defend murder with weird defenses

- Daenerys

[Daenerys and Dragons]

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

inclined to agree except I think gamma town -> scum!gc fairly definitively. and obviously I’m town

- Daenerys

[Menalque]

Okay, well this is why I prob ought to like read the game properly first

I’m still not really agreeing with what you’re saying because like, the whole point of hardbussing is to get in early and strong?

And yea I asked for an interaction that made it really obvious. Like I will clearly have a better sense of this after reading but while ur obviously good enough to catch and lead on scum D1 ur also good enough to come up with a plan of just hardbussing to a win (bc I know u plan and that’s something I would seriously consider in any setup like this)

So I guess I don’t think it would be a lolhardbus in that case, but instead a p solid strategic bus? Esp if murderkitty was on board or w/e

[Menalque]

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

I mean I don’t hate this plan fwiw but I would rather just lim in that pool first

[Menalque]

I think that’s supposed to be me - in which case: I think I’m pretty far out of my scumrange, I was scumreading gamma for what felt like incredibly bad faith responses to me, infinity should also be in the elimpool given how skittish he was of murder wagon until the end, and I highly doubt that both other scum were on gamma at eod, especially given that... I know I’m town.

- Daenerys

Okay, then hopefully if ur far out of SR then I’ll be able to see that when I actually go and read! In which case it is probably just yotta and GC

Or if not then yeah, infinity or NM could be bussing, but if we do me first then whoever’s left is just gonna have to sort it out between you/infinity/NM

Unless there’s some way the bomb mechanic gives autowin before then which if there is basically guaranteed scum on me then I wonder if it’s auto to just induct all the early murderkitty voters into the panic room and then lim through the 6 of us consecutively

That prob doesn’t work tho

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

inclined to agree except I think gamma town -> scum!gc fairly definitively. and obviously I’m town

- Daenerys

I quoted the wrong thing but what was the weird defence stuff gamma was doing? Why was it weird?

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think the simplest explanation for how eod1 happened is that both MURDERKITTY and gamma are scum. if gamma is town there's at least one scum in {other dnd, gc, and yyotta iirc}

~ skitteR

inclined to agree except I think gamma town -> scum!gc fairly definitively. and obviously I’m town

- Daenerys

ig i just haven't thought super much abt which of the 3 it would be ... kinda want to start with pushing mena tbh

~ skitteR

[Menalque]

I feel like I’m confbiasing because as of pg 3 the 2 entrances I like the least are GC and yotta, and I also think lili seemed towny in her entrance which makes me wanna TL skitt a bit more for mindmelding

[Menalque]

Do u feel v tunnelled on me skitt?

[Dumb and Dumber]

and mena ig i'm just not sure it would be worth it to lead a hardbus vs just, like, not there

pedit uh idk? i hope not. it's really a poe-based read coupled with gamestate and you happen to be in the hotseat

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

like i can unvote in good faith to let u get acclimated but your slot is my best bet rn

~ skitteR

[Menalque]

Okay that’s fine

Was asking mostly bc if I get to a point where I’m like happy happy with the idea of town!you then I was considering saying that if we just settle it as me being the guaranteed lim today would u spend the rest of the day trying to sort in my wagon from yesterday w/ me

If it’s not like a super túnel then I guess I’ll just do the catchup thing normally and hopefully u see I’m town

Or maybe I just never get really comfortable with town you in which case I guess the game becomes more tryhardy

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Also can someone come up with a good reason for MCat being scum or is this just because he’s not a TR yet
I feel like most games MCat gets pressed early as town

VOTE: not_mafia
wynaut

Because murdercat is a much better wagon and an nm wagon is the epitome of lazy voting.

what about murdercat
you guys are probably way off base on him, he very often gets wagoned early like this as town rather than as scum
how can I not see the votes on murdercat as just a little bit lazy

Very conflicted. I think his posting isolated is very scummy but I also can buy his excuse that he was burned out by the BooneyToonz game and I did like his post where he cased Penguin. Would yeet in lack of other better wagons.

Here’s the thing: you ALSO saw what happened in Among Us. Tell me Murder’s play/reception differs from that game at all.

If you believe me about murdercat being a miselim why do you think I’m scum?

MURDERCAT [6, E-3] outworldER, Akarin, xRECKONERx, alisae, sircakez, battle mage (thegoldenparadox)
The only scum on this in that game, SirCakez, voted around the middle of what was need to lim
NM is in the same place if murdercat is a miselim this game
So like, how is my NM vote bad given that?

I don’t think murdercat’s play is substantially different from that game/any of his other town games, and the fact he’s getting early pressure to this degree tells me he’s town
In booneytoonz XV I recall there was a D1 wagon on him but it was rather short-lived
Meanwhile like, every other town game I’ve seen from him he’s been rather suspected. So imo the trend is “if murdercat gets sussed a lot early he is town”

BTXV just finished
So saying Murdercat still has 1 scumgame is a critical logic failure bordering on misrepresentation

hey penguin wanna join the juicy gamma wagon?

- Daenerys

You know what, do it. I fucking DARE you.

No one is bothering to honestly engage with me here so I’ll just let my flip speak for itself

I’ve tried to respond but I’m not getting any feeling that YOU actually care for what I’m saying.

And not to mention the fact you’re using a blatantly outdated point

No one is bothering to honestly engage with me here so I’ll just let my flip speak for itself

what a misrep. I asked you questions about the murder wagon.

If you think murder is town, then are people being actively opportunistic about wagoning him? What do you think about penguin convincing dumb&dumber to vote back on murder after auro voted NM for lolz?

and your response is to pretend that I’m not engaging with you?

- Daenerys

I kinda felt like I addressed that in another post
I don’t particularly feel like many scum are on murdercat, otherwise I wouldn’t be debating like this, I’d just lim the scum. But I feel like outside of Cakez and infinity, NM is the only one here who should have a decent idea of how murdercat is, but he just lazily voted murder

And not to mention the fact you’re using a blatantly outdated point

BTXV just finished

blatantly outdated point

just finished

By how I was acting you should have been able to infer I was referring to a recently completed game.
I’m beginning to suspect you’re scum and really not interacting in good faith here at all.

@MURDERCAT

what did you mean by “your one scum game”?
I feel like depending on this I have a solid binary of where scum is.
UNVOTE: because straight up stating NM is not involved in that binary

No one is bothering to honestly engage with me here so I’ll just let my flip speak for itself

what a misrep. I asked you questions about the murder wagon.

If you think murder is town, then are people being actively opportunistic about wagoning him? What do you think about penguin convincing dumb&dumber to vote back on murder after auro voted NM for lolz?

and your response is to pretend that I’m not engaging with you?

- Daenerys

I kinda felt like I addressed that in another post
I don’t particularly feel like many scum are on murdercat, otherwise I wouldn’t be debating like this, I’d just lim the scum. But I feel like outside of Cakez and infinity, NM is the only one here who should have a decent idea of how murdercat is, but he just lazily voted murder

Are you under the impression that NM does anything not lazily?
Why do you think he should “know how murdercat is” and that this is town!murder?

- Daenerys

He was in a game where town!murdercat was limmed D1

And honestly the biggest issue I fucking have is that MURDERCAT GETS TOWNIER AS THE GAME PROGRESSES AS TOWN. ELIMINATING HIM EARLY IS LEGITIMATELY SHIT PLAY.

not anymore
I s2g do you fuckers have any reading comprehension at all?

@MURDERCAT

what did you mean by “your one scum game”?
I feel like depending on this I have a solid binary of where scum is.
UNVOTE: because straight up stating NM is not involved in that binary

UNVOTE: because straight up stating NM is not involved in that binary

like holy shit how dense are you?????

Here's the thing: I legitimately don't actively solve early unless driven by emotions or something. I do this for three reasons: I'm lazy, it helps get through the most active stages of larger games where trying to keep up is nigh impossible, and it lowers my NK worth. That last point wasn't always a reason for it but after mini 2173 I realized I actually had enough impact to get NKed over reputation versus my play in that game, so now I deliberately sandbag to try to get farther, which I'm sure you've seen other players do. Flavor Leaf and mastina might be the leading names in that regard for me, though idrk if the latter qualifies. But the point is the fact I haven't been actively searching for scum is part of how I play these days, but atp I'm pissed off enough to switch to active mode.

And honestly the biggest issue I fucking have is that MURDERCAT GETS TOWNIER AS THE GAME PROGRESSES AS TOWN. ELIMINATING HIM EARLY IS LEGITIMATELY SHIT PLAY.

And my issue is you can't say that he doesn't as scum so it's nai. Stop relying solely on meta for which you don't have an established comparison.

it's bad.

Actually BTXV showed he really doesn't get townier as time passes in scumgames. He was wagoned in 7p and 5p limlo, predominantly by town iirc.
So no, I have an example of the converse, try again smartass.

@infinity
catboi’s post sums up most of it I think, have you read and responded to this?

Actually just looked at your ISO and you don’t seem to have mentioned this post at all, which is interesting because this is probably the biggest scumcase on murder so far, and you seemingly hard townread this slot before catboi replaced in. Is there a reason you haven’t responded to catboi on murder or engaged with catboi at all?

- Daenerys

I read the post, it didn't really do anything for me. Most of it is like, murder is making lazy pushes and reasoning because he's kinda being lazy this game. If you're interested I can respond to it in more depth

I don’t really need a response to the points in particular.

I find the argument “murder could be lazy as town” to just be not very appealing. Like, anyone can be lazy as town. They can also just be scum. Yall are saying murder is lazy!town here. Gamma says he’s lazy!town. NM is lazy as both alignments. Everyone else is putting in effort. who do we elim then if everyone suspicious just says they’re being lazy town? there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. as a side note, I also intensely dislike the concept of sandbagging on principle. like, just play the game you signed up for. if you plan to not play the game, then don’t come crying when you get pressured for it.

you say let’s wagon NM but that is the easiest elimination of all time. I’m not concerned about deepwolf!NM. I am concerned about other players skating by because “oh they’re just lazy town.” like if NM is where the wagon ends up, fine, but I think that’s an absolute last resort. there are three scum, so I’m going to keep trying to figure out who the team is. both you and gamma do not seem to care that there would be two other scum.

- Daenerys

yes, there are three scum
atm I don't think murdercat is any of them
NM could be, so could others but I haven't probed for them yet
I don't like the way you try to act like because there's three scum it invalidates our concerns about the murdercat lim and those pushing it

If you look at how murdercat got through all of those games you'll see a very consistent trend of town!murdercat getting pushed early and/or often

but see:

And my issue is you can't say that he doesn't as scum so it's nai. Stop relying solely on meta for which you don't have an established comparison.

I'm saying your perspective on murdercat is way smaller than mine or infinity's, and as such you should listen to what I'm saying, which is to give him time since he becomes stronger as town further along in the game, and I think based on how things have developed he is town
I'm not just metaing murdercat, I'm metaing the scenario

Yeah I do wish he would post more since he said he would be, but is leaving the thread and "hoping the wagon dissipates" something scum actually do ever? Idk

Infinity I'm concerned you have to ask this question.

I actually don't remember a time when scum has lurked out a wagon hoping it dissipates, but maybe there's been a time where it happened and I though the scum was just demotivated or something

It just seems like a very dumb thing to do and I don't think that's really how wagons work, maybe in larges idk

that's
what I used to do

VOTE: murdercat
I'd prefer to let him town up if he's town but he's not really trying atp, plus I have unresolved concerns of my own from early on.

plus I have unresolved concerns of my own from early on

can you please point me in the direction of these concerns?

I'm being lazy

didn't like how he was talking about mech stuff early
it felt like he was crutching on that to get TRed

[Menalque]

like i can unvote in good faith to let u get acclimated but your slot is my best bet rn

~ skitteR

No like it’s fine

I think if ur town then it makes a lot of sense to want to elim some order of (me, yotta, DnD, GC)

I just wanna get to a point of higher confidence on that

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I don't particularly want to give a run down on events beyond the quote chain above because I did not enjoy interacting with gamma and rereading these made me angry all over again

[Menalque]

I feel like I may be confbiasing on this too but to me those posts look p towny assuming that gamma has like an ounce of an idea of how to play scum, which I think he does

[Green Crayons]

what does eod mean?