TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[mastina]

like what is mastina thinking rn after how that played out

Dissatisfied, disappointed in myself, disappointed in the vig but not angry at them because I understand why they shot DGB even if it was a shitty-ass shot on the most obvtown player in the game, wondering if in hindsight could I have pushed Titus D1 or if I was justified in my fears that if I hopped off, DGB would've been the D1 mislynch because of breaking the DGB-Xtoxm-mastina trinity and both DGB/Xtoxm townreading Titus, embarrassed at an "oops", irate that this'll give ammo for the "flip mastina's reads" viewpoint even if my reads are otherwise mostly accurate, trying to prove to the TM 2021 crowd that one blunder does not a laughing stock make me, hoping that I can at least match if not surpass my 50/50 of last iteration of this game, praying that this game ends up similar to TitusVFL in allowing me to make a comeback with a resurgence after flubbing D1 (there it was BM, here it was LLD), worried that I'll be a lolvig that loses the town the game because while I will never be mislynched, hey, the vig did shoot DGB so my expectations of them aren't tremendously high.

I think that sums it up, just about.

[mastina]

VOTE: mastina
Case me or die. I want to have this out. I may not respond right away but I want you solved. No more vague meta statements. If I am wrong on you, I should be able to see you having genuine logic here, even if wrong.

This feels like Titus knows a case on her in incoming and she's trying to preemptively discredit it.

Right conclusion, wrong buildup:
Titus was indeed trying to discredit me there, but she's definitely going to be caught off-guard by me having written the case because she's WELL aware that I almost never do--I prioritize catching up over writing a case, and writing a case takes time and energy I almost never have, and I get distracted, and I get side-tracked, so I forget, and it takes a specific mindset to be in, so overall:
I almost never actually make a case, and Titus was probably assuming that, per my usual habits, I would once again fail to. And she would use this failure to make a case to discredit me, in spite of the fact that while I always say I want to write a case, I almost never do.

This is probably the first case I've written on a player in like...a year, maybe two years. So her planned discredit would've worked in like...98% of mastina games; she just got unlucky that for some reason, I actually

did

make the case.

I'm sure me making the case is actually gonna be the biggest shock to anyone who's intimately familiar with me; hell, even I'm after the fact kinda in shock of "holy shit I actually wrote a case".

[mastina]

It's a tactic I've seen scum do often - they vote someone who they know will vote them, and preemptively try to undermine what they're about to say.

For the record: in spite of Titus saying she didn't like that people were doing exactly what you're describing, of discrediting me as bad-town, I would like to reiterate that her very first content post was doing exactly that, discrediting me as bad-town. So yes, she has been discrediting me since before I ever wrote so much as a word as to why Titus would be scum.

[mastina]

Based on the D1 wagons I think it's unlikely both Titus and Ythan are scum, and right now I'm leaning towards Titus being the more likely of the two as her play seems more calculated than Ythan's.

Good take that I happen to agree with, by the way.

I said as much on D1.

I am fully aware why Ythan looks like scum. Frankly, vig the guy; with his play, he deserves to die. But I don't think he's scum, especially not with Titus. So for the guaranteed-to-succeed town elimination of a...well, elimination during the day via votes, he is by far not my preference; there's literally 4-5 people I'd want to vote before him and literally the only way I would ever vote him is if the alternative elimination was a townread of mine.

[mastina]

Does anyone still strongly TR him? I purely TR him based on tone early on, but that's it.

I do, Hopkirk was basically the fourth wheel in the holy DGB/Xtoxm/mastina trinity in a way that was very strongly town, and I can explain this better when not dead tired. (It's 7 am and the LCK finished and I lack a stream to listen to so fatigue is setting in fast.)

I'll see if I can explain this later when caught up, just know that I'll not be able to do it now.

[mastina]

im not really sure why people strongly TR'd Hopkirk at all, maybe someone can enlighten me there

Hopkirk doesn't post much compared to the rest of the game, but I just feel he's town when he does post.

I think that this is literally the first thing Titus has said all game that I can see as possibly town from her, because as it so happens, yes, it is pretty much this.

(Note that my vote's still there because I fully believe Titus as scum can and will say this, too, because saying it is a scum mediator move, it's just that it's the first thing Titus has said that I have shared her stance on.)

[mastina]

post lld flip i still like everyone from the core of lld pushers tbh(/d) (Mastina/Xtoxm/DGB/Herc despite rep leaving)
so most likely gamestate is that scum were happy to let us park there and either doing not much or pushing alternatives too. probably some scum towards the end of LLD given the early push are town independently

dunn claiming town was useful

Ceph is probably better than i was viewing yesterday on an LLD townflip

Agar prob still scum

And this folks is an example of why Hopkirk is in my townbloc.

I similarly stand by a townbloc of townblocs of Hopkirk, IV (not listed in Hopkirk's town but good reasons to be there), Xtoxm, and Cephrir.

Luca's posting on D2 makes me want to re-add the slot there as well and it's good to know I'm not alone in continuing my townread there, soooooo:

Hopkirk
innocentvillager
Xtoxm
hercule/Luca Blight
Cephrir
^This is the townbloc: the names that are very very strongly town, to the point of never being eliminated. Cephrir's maybe a bit iffy there I realize, he's a good scum player, but I don't think his conviction on DGB comes from scum here.

jjh927
Dunnstral
^This is the townlock: the names that were very very strongly town on D1, but on D2 I'm not sure are townbloc material. I still maintain that they are poor eliminations.

Almost50
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
^This is the upper-mess ("the mess" being a term I'm borrowing from Spawn in the OPL): players I was townreading on D1, but not enough to lock them as town, who're still possible as scum.

the worst/Bell
Ythan
^This is the lower-mess: players who I scumread on D1, but had reasonable doubts about where they showed they could be town, with them having reasons to not be scum.


OkaPoka
AGar
^These are the strong scumreads, scumreads I feel I have damn good foundation for.

Titus
^this is the person who I just went to make a case on.

[innocentvillager]

the vig did shoot DGB so my expectations of them aren't tremendously high

how do you know it wasn't a SK?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus i like this better than jjh at least

[innocentvillager]

I know you did just make a gigantic scumcase on Titus but I now chumread her

why? just because mastina posited scum!Titus lied about the babysitter visiting her?

[Titus]

I'll look through mastina's case later.

Dunn, I was lifeless. Now I am struggling. People are ignoring my pushes and going after the wrong slots. I have mastina constantly posting garbage of how town are scum and I am trying to prevent a redo of that. I'm trying to be effective here but the early vla really hurt people's assessment of me this game.

What's more frustrating is that everyone's reads, including mastina's, are largely moving towards the correct path. I really don't have Cephrir as lock town and Ythan should be lockscum yesterday. But most of mastina's reads are not horrible.

The biggest problem I have with mastina is she has done nothing but harrass town. While I did skim her case, her big issue was that I was ineffective at getting people to go to Ythan. I couldn't even get reasons.

Mastina again largely just labels my play. She divorces it from context entirely. This is particularly true of the entry posts.

So my question becomes, is this mastina trying to protect Ythan by putting me on the defensive or is this stubborn town mastina?

@mastina, Explain your Ythan read please.

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus i like this better than jjh at least

And your thoughts on Ythan?

[Titus]

the vig did shoot DGB so my expectations of them aren't tremendously high

how do you know it wasn't a SK?

VOTE: Titus i like this better than jjh at least

Bookmarking this for later.

[Titus]

I know you did just make a gigantic scumcase on Titus but I now chumread her

why? just because mastina posited scum!Titus lied about the babysitter visiting her?

Why would I ever go along with a proposition that gets me limmed at massclaim?

[mastina]

somebody towncase a50 for me ty

I don't suppose "Jingle thought that this was somewhere in the 80% range, Almost50 as town" cuts it as a case, huh.

how are the lld voters really claiming their wagon on lld was pure when they couldnt explain why she was scum, just why she wasnt town

Because in a player of LLD's caliber, explaining why she wasn't town WAS explaining why she was scum; the two were one and the same.

Also, the names on LLD were mostly pure.

DGB is proven town.
I am town.
In the holy trinity, that only leaves Xtoxm--who is also town.
Hopkirk was the fourth wheel of the wagon--and he is also town.
hercule was a core part of the wagon (altho Luca Blight, less so)--and his slot is town.
If you count IV as core on LLD, he's obvtown, too.

The core of the LLD wagon is indeed made up of pure town.

Now I understand suspicion on the outliers. Ythan, jjh. Not so pure there, even if I don't think they're scum.

The simple fact is: of the LLD voters on the final wagon, the only possible scum are {Ythan, jjh, Titus, OkaPoka}.

As it so happens, I agree with your implication of the wagon not being all ten as town players.

It's just that two of them joined at the very end, at the spot we're talking about scum being in.

[Titus]

As it so happens, I agree with your implication of the wagon not being all ten as town players.

It's just that two of them joined at the very end, at the spot we're talking about scum being in.

Yes. The slot that's scum is Ythan. The very wagon I tried to revive and failed.

The Ythan wagon is pure, yet you seem to ignore that.

[mastina]

3 in (

Titus

/

Agar

/

Bell

/Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned),

Oka

, JJH, Ythan, A50) + deepwolf?

I'd count Oka as the deepwolf, actually, but yes, pretty much.

I am increasingly seeing the merits in Bell being scum here; his presence is very underwhelming overall.

On D1, he had the excuse of being a lateish replacement; I'm less forgiving of that now.

[mastina]

VOTE: agar
if i can get one person to sheep me then i'll be happy

I'm sheeping you in spirit. <3

[mastina]

This makes me want to rethink Bell too.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck did I really just spend...

Literally four to five hours casing Titus.

Only to want to instead do this and give her a chance?

VOTE: Bell

I'm not sure whether I'll hate myself more if Titus is scum and I'm doing this now, or if Titus is town and I'm only now doing this.

[mastina]

Okay I think I am going to bed at the bottom of 144, to do 145 onward tomorrow.
I will fight hard against eliminations on: {Hopkirk, innocentvillager, Xtoxm, hercule/Luca Blight, Cephrir, Dunnstral, probably-jjh}
I disapprove of eliminations on: {jjh}
I will explicitly wagon: {AGar, OkaPoka, Bell}

Wagonwise I am now unsure on: {Titus, Almost50, Winter Flakes, Ythan}

Winter Flakes is the towniest of the unsure on, Ythan I literally just deleted from the disapprove-of-eliminations pile as I had him there but am second-guessing myself there asking "What if Ythan is this game's Xtoxm?" with his toxicity being a mask for being scum the same way Xtoxm was last game, but I otherwise don't think he's scum.

This is explicitly not a readslist, but I actually think it is more helpful than one right now.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus i like this better than jjh at least

And your thoughts on Ythan?

would probably wagon there too at this point

[innocentvillager]

I know you did just make a gigantic scumcase on Titus but I now chumread her

why? just because mastina posited scum!Titus lied about the babysitter visiting her?

Why would I ever go along with a proposition that gets me limmed at massclaim?

i don't think you lied if that wasn't clear, and i don't think it's AI either

[innocentvillager]

This makes me want to rethink Bell too.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck did I really just spend...

Literally four to five hours casing Titus.

Only to want to instead do this and give her a chance?

VOTE: Bell

I'm not sure whether I'll hate myself more if Titus is scum and I'm doing this now, or if Titus is town and I'm only now doing this.

why did that one statement from Titus make you rethink your 4-5 hours on casing her?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: luca
the spirit of dann flows through me

This also continues to be fine

do you TR me? o.o

Meh.

[Bell]

3908 is a red flag for me as they’re using a single premise to sort everyone.

Then they posted that huge ass wall and I felt despair because even if they’re actually scum I’m not going to be able to spend the time necessary to shout them down.