FFVII Mafia: Over

[Xtoxm]

He doesn't need to, i've already explained.

Please look back and read again if you didn't catch it the first time.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Armix

I'd like to test a daycop claim.

Is the Cid claimer lying? Cid claimer don't answer that.

[CallMeLiam]

Without reading it again:
L-6 is hardly a terrifying position to be in, but as a cop I'd be doing everything I could to get out of that position without giving myself up. Personally fake-claiming vanilla would not be one of them but whatever. Playstyle. Ditto outing my result. Yeah, I'd be hella surprised at outing scum randomly this early, but I also wouldn't have investigated at all this early. Again, playstyle.
Now Xtox has made a lot of choices I wouldn't have, and while I'm not 100% sure he's telling the truth, I would like to test his 'result'. Cops are valuble, and risking a day one mislynch to test him sounds OK to me. We'll have a night behind us and probably a couple of bodies are s'more results so we can eye him up closer.

[armlx]

Please look back and read again if you didn't catch it the first time.

I didn't. Link plz.

We'll have a night behind us and probably a couple of bodies are s'more results so we can eye him up closer.

What does this mean?

[CallMeLiam]

Day one usually has no concrete information, but on day two we'll have some dead folks which means we'll know alignments. With actual hard information in hand, it's easier to analyse players and better verify his claim.

[armlx]

I realize, but honestly what "solid information" do you expect to have that you don't already, besides presumably my alignment if he is still alive.

[iamausername]

Is the Cid claimer lying? Cid claimer don't answer that.

Who do you want to answer it then?

why are you acting like armlx is expendable? For all you knew he could've been the real daycop.

CML (and others who still want to lynch armlx), what do you think of this point?

[CallMeLiam]

Armlx, your alignment is gonna be a pretty huge clue as to whether or not he's telling the truth. Everything else will just be gravy.

Armlx isn't on the lynch threshold yet, and I'd expect him to claim before he swings. Unless he's got a provable or highly powerful sounding role, then expendable to test a cop-claim is exactly what he is.

[armlx]

Xtoxm, at exactly what point did you day cop me?

Oh, and the exact number for claim was.... L-10

[Empking]

Is the Cid claimer lying? Cid claimer don't answer that.

Who do you want to answer it then?

Somebody other than him.

why are you acting like armlx is expendable? For all you knew he could've been the real daycop.

CML (and others who still want to lynch armlx), what do you think of this point?

We won't lynch him without giving him a chance to claim.

[Cludsy]

I will be keeping my vote on Xtoxm, for the reasons mentioned, but in particular:

Not to mention it makes no sense to put yourself out there and push for a massclaim on Day 1 if you are a power role.

Despite the fact that he could actually be cop, his stories, and behaviour have been totally illogical, and his play very bad, whether he be cop or not.

His first post, before any pressure or anything:

Yay! Finally started.

I'ma random Yos2.

Vote Y2

So, who's up for mass character claiming?

I'd be ok with going first. We could do popcorn style.

This doesn't seem like the kind of thing that a cop would be saying. I could understand a mafia player saying that, I could understand a vanilla saying that, but a cop? No way.

[christiano drago]

I actually can't believe people are buying Xtoxm's story.

Really guys, when he has told us things he's either been lying or deliberately vague and he spent more pages than I care to go and count refusing to give us a flavor claim for some magical reason until someone provided him with two names and he claimed one.

The fact that anyone can say that ANYONE else in this day phase has done enough to warrant a vote so far escapes me.

[forbiddanlight]

This way he gets to mise a mislynch out of it if people listen, possibly more if he randomly guess right.

Is this saying that if he were right, he wouldn't be scum with you? This is interesting.

But, with ABR's claim, I actually think an

Unvote, Vote Xtoxtm

is better now.

[Cludsy]

If Xtoxm get's lynched and turns out to be daycop, armlx must know he will be lynched on day 2. However, I have seen no defence on armlx's part, just a relentless attack on Xtoxm.

This suggests to me that armlx isn't mafia, and Xtoxm's story is truely just made up. Either that or Armlx is pretty fearless/has some ability that means he can't get lynched as a mafia...

[Cavebear with a toothache]

It's interesting to me that the cop claims don't actually contradict each other: Having two scum groups (Shinra Inc and Sephiroth clones/Cult of Jenova/whatever you want to call them) doesn't sound all that unlikely to me (it's a large game after all), and if so, separate cops works. If so, I'd expect them to work in about the same way, from a purely mechanical point of view. So before we lynch anyone, I'd very much like these questions answered, first by Xtoxm and then Albert B. Rampage:
- Both of you: When can you send in the target of your investigation, and when do you get the result?
- Does it, anywhere in your roles, explicitly state that you detect scum and/or that you are cops?
- Are there any other restrictions or defining features that can help distinguish your role from "normal" cops and/or someone faking? Not counting formatting or anything else you shouldn't be quoting.
- ABR: I'm a bit confused by your claim. Do you detect raised levels of Mako energy or Jenova cells? From what I remember/could find on FFVII, Jenova cells and Mako, this isn't the same thing (from what I understand, everyone with Jenova cells would have higher Mako rates, but higher Mako rates doesn't imply Jenova cells.)

[armlx]

So, cavebear, do you believe xtoxm?

[DynamoXI]

Okay busy weekend. Time to get to work.

For the love of god, Xtoxm, stop ignoring my obvious pleas for FLAVOR with your claim. What kind of scum are you supposed to be looking for, what did your result say, what is the flavor of your role?

I will paraphrase my role flavour:

I am take-over dad's dad of blue IIV, and old guy of the bugger clan in rock valley. In battle I look for Shrina operatives, I also have the other basic things in the example Role PM.

That should be paraphrased enough that I won't get modkilled.

Armlx is Shinra.

So first you go ahead and fake claim vanilla but since you notice that doesn't work you go ahead and claim daycop. Ill be honest Im not buying it. I don't think a cop would say in his first post that we should mass claim (even for flavor) but then again everyone has different playstyles.

This point I am going to stand by.

It was not illogical.

As I have said, when you have a powerful town role, you don't want scum to know about it.

Well I guess your right, but you said you wanted a roleclaim, and then went wishy washy on the details pretaining to your actual role. Also why did you for so long ignore iLords questions pertaining to your role flavor. And even when you did give it to us it was vague at best.

alright i may not have liked you play, and the way you kept avoiding role question from ilord, and your general attitude, but heres the thing:
a)if we keep xtoxm around, and actually lynch armlx, and he turns up NOT a shinra opeative, then xtoxm would be killed right off next day.
b)if we lynch xtoxm now, and he turns up cop as he said, i would hope everyone would lynch armlx, being as xtoxm would have been telling the truth, but we would be left without a cops investigation skills.

I agree with this, but it also leaves us in quite a predicament. Assuming X is telling the truth we lose a daycop should we lynch him. However if we lynch Armlx we run the risk that he was lying so that we can pull a mislynch, or he was telling the truth and Armlx is actually scum. Still though there could be the off chance that X is throwing Arm under the bus (something I highly doubt because Armlx

looks

town to me right now.

Also we have to take into consideration that Rampage's claim could mean that there are more then one daycop, or that xtoxm is lying. After rereading his posts though, his stories just don't add up, and with the continual pressure from armlx it seems that he is scum.

Because the nature of his claim makes me think it is not a serious claim, and his record of faking like this before as a town makes me think he's just a stubborn townie trying to get me lynched (or maybe a scum trying to bask off his meta, but I doubt it, because it's too likely to get him killed).

Any links to this type of behavior that are done?

If Xtoxm get's lynched and turns out to be daycop, armlx must know he will be lynched on day 2. However, I have seen no defence on armlx's part, just a relentless attack on Xtoxm.

This suggests to me that armlx isn't mafia, and Xtoxm's story is truely just made up. Either that or Armlx is pretty fearless/has some ability that means he can't get lynched as a mafia...

Either way, if one of them is lynched, and the other turns out to have lied, then the other will be the one everyone will be gunning for come D2 (assuming they are protected during the night). Personally Ive found that agressiveness is a trait that many townies (as well as experienced townies) show as it is able to help pinpoint scum. That being said I think that Xtoxm's defense in this case is just too swingy for me. His claim, story and reasoning behind everything he has done just does not fit into anything.

unvote, vote: Xtoxm

. However if xtoxm does turn to be the daycop (which looks to be unlikely at the moment) then Armlx looks to be the one vote ill be backing come d2.

[armlx]

ABR has in fact fake claimed in the past as town for dumb reasons. That is why in every analysis of the scenario I have presented I have pretty much ignored the "counter claim".

[GhostWriter]

Honestly, in a game this size, I can see there being two rolecops (assuming ABR is not fakeclaiming), though the "daycop" part is what's bothering me (never heard of 'em). Either way, we will still have to test the claims, and they still come down to lynching between Xtoxm and armlx. The fact that we could potentially kill a daycop is why my vote remains unchanged. Also, I didn't like this:


[quote="armlx"]EBWODP: Everyone also has to realize that if xtoxm didn't claim day cop here, he was going to be lynched. This way he gets to mise a mislynch out of it if people listen, possibly more if he randomly guess right./quote]

For him to get more mislynches, you'd have to be the one to randomly have been guessed right. On top of that, you'd have to be aligned with Shinra upon death. Anything else, and he dies. No if's, and's, or but's about it.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

So, cavebear, do you believe xtoxm?

Ask me again when he and ABR has answered my questions.

[armlx]

For him to get more mislynches, you'd have to be the one to randomly have been guessed right. On top of that, you'd have to be aligned with Shinra upon death. Anything else, and he dies. No if's, and's, or but's about it.

Or he could just be scum who thought he was going to be lynched regardless, in which case he attempt to take down a townie with him.

[GhostWriter]

The point that I am making is that he will not get other mislynches out of this. You said, and I quote without the quote tags here, "this way he gets a mislynch if people listen, and possibly more". He cannot get more mislynches unless he is bussing you, in which case, we would still catch him on his first mistake. The only way for him to even stay alive after your death is if you are not only scum, but specifically Shinra.

[armlx]

It sets him up for the "Guess I'm not sane" excuse, which at this rate people might buy.

[armlx]

(That said, you are right, if people auto lynch him if I turn non-Shinra, he only gets 1 mislynch. My main point was that he gets 1 more then 0).

[GhostWriter]

Oh, no, no sanity excuse will fly with me. It would be understandable had he done wonderful playing earlier on in the game, however, given his past playing so far in this game, that would not come close to flying.