Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Bell]

The scum don't know what the artifacts do until they receive it. So the artifact they picked they know what it does now I think.
They likely relied on the wiki for which artifact to pick.

Beyond that it's not clear to me whether the scum team have abilities outside of the artifact, or whether they started with multiple artifacts outside of the provided two.

I dunno what the prism thing is about, whether scum sent it to them, or they just had it from the start.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

um if that reading of the rules is correct. only prism and bork know what the artifact does

[Bell]

Correct.
Well, maybe not. Somebody could be informed about how an artifact(s) work. But that's speculation. I'm not good at that.

[Tammy]

But to answer your question:

"Two Artifacts are presented to the Mafia at the start of the Night phase. They pick one to keep by the end of the Night phase (along with a recipient for it, among their faction or elsewhere) and one that will go to the game thread at the start of the Morning, where the living players will vote on the recipient of that Artifact decided by plurality. The Morning will end if a majority vote is reached for the Artifact recipient."

They can only keep one. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't also want the other one if it might have a benefit to the town.

And, we don't know if scum know what the effects are unless I'm lol missing that from the instructions too. It looks like the recipient is the one who gain that knowledge, so the scum may be choosing blind on what they keep or give away and what they leave for the morning vote.

ok but if they want the haircomb thing

couldnt they just take the haircomb instead of sending the haircomb to the town and giving the other artifact to prism?

And, we don't know if scum know what the effects are unless I'm lol missing that from the instructions too. It looks like the recipient is the one who gain that knowledge, so the scum may be choosing blind on what they keep or give away and what they leave for the morning vote.

im like assuming the scum know what the 2 artifacts do

but like if they don't know what the artifacts do, why the heck would they send the artifact to a townie ?

I already responded to the prism thing. Prism can correct me if I'm wrong, but their post 29 indicates that they started with it.

Besides, night 0 was for passing, in which scum decided what to do with two artifacts - kept or passed one - and sent one for morning.

You're assuming that somehow people were able to make multiple actions with the same artifact last night. That in night 0, scum handed prism an artifact and somehow, maybe with a swift action, prism was able to hand it off to Bork.

Either Prism is town who started with an artifact and handed it to bork.

Or Prism is scum who started with an artifact and handed it to bork

Or Prism is scum who sent one of the two artifacts they were presented to Bork. (Would be funny if they were partners here, but I don't think that's in either of their scum plays.)

So there's the possibility that Prism's thing is completely separate from the two artifacts that began the night.

And they likely don't know what it does before they actually have it. Just because they choose one doesn't mean that they don't want to keep the other artifact out of town's hands. One of the two is going to be up for grabs in the morning; it doesn't mean they're not going to want it especially not knowing what it does.

[Tammy]

in b4 I'm the one misunderstanding everything lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i kinda missed that

prism should clarify i guess :3

[Prism]

Still gone, artifact assigned to me pregame, again b/c of my character

[Prism]

Consider not mass disclosing that you didn't start with an artifact, food for thought

[Dunnstral]

Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

Objects have an ability and a downside. A downside implies an upside as well.

And the receiver can simply choose not to use it if they don't like it. Or to give it to someone else.

-k

[Tammy]

But I also think that Nacho told you one of the reasons I recognized you as scum in Battlestar because I think you'd kinda reflexively do it again, and I know that he had a pretty detailed plan with you for misbronzing me if you guys rolled scum, which I know he said he can't do now because he tole me about it. Anyway, I liked it and I feel weird right now that I keep having good feels about people and I'm about to go all leap of faith lol.

re BSG game, if he ever told me, I don't remember, so I'm gonna ask.

And yeah, he had an elaborate plan, but hadn't shared details with me before he got drunk and spilled it to you. He thought I'd be the perfect hydra partner for whatever the shenanigans were, though. Probably won't happen in a sangres game, now. Which is probably good for my nerves.

Leap of faith is exactly what I'm doing with my vote. I know (better than I used to) that Prism can be incredibly town-feeling as scum. But this doesn't feel incredibly town. It just feels...town.

I agree? Though as I’m reading through my own character and some flavor on the show along with artifacts in general, which I need to watch now, I’m starting to wonder why pass it off night 0? I’m still on the side of town due to me thinking that the act and the beginning is not prism’s scum game or at least not my idea of prism’s scum game, but the question mark is not something I’m gonna jump down that rabbit hole yet until Bork slows up and hopefully the issue will resolve itself,

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I AM GARBAGE AT READING

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

how about we have a passing system for the comb

so we leash a pass too or something

this way there's more than one accountable person

[Kitty Trauma Team]

But that assumes the person never wants to use it.

Think power roles with a nasty twist, not "omg this item is cursed."

Like, if I get a vig shot that makes me voteless or kills me outright, I'd probably take it and shoot the first person that asked me to pass it along

But then again I guess I'm playing for two right now so I'd at least theoretically run it by Mala before blowing somebody away.

Theoretically.

-k

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well we don't know what the artifact does

if whoever gets voted it gets to use it, they could lie about it if they were mafia and say its like a tracker shot when its actually a cop shot or w/e

by making them pass it, it goes to 2 people so we have better accountability on the artifact activation no?

[Tammy]

I like the idea of accountability, think games with items or games like marketplace that roles are passed around are very often lost because town did not hold people accountable,

Passing it to a second person might not give us that clearance though because people can pass it to their partner for verification.

I also don’t think we should be like you have to pass it because that person could also be scum whether the first was town, it’s expecting everyone to accept this which people aren’t going to do, and it’s plain no fun to vote for someone to get a role because we The they’re town and then go nope can’t use it,

I’m all for accountability, but I don’t really like that kind of leash. I’ve been debating how much they should tell us about the artifact. Whatever the negative thing is might be best kept away from scum.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Yah, but mafia could just pass it among themselves and lie anyway

Leashing could work but it's tricky considering we don't necessarily want scum to know who has what artifacts. And considering passing isn't public knowledge. So, say, we all vote to give the comb to LLD, and we all then insist she give it to Spiffeh. If they're scum together, (and I'm using them as examples because I'm townreading them), then either the pass never occurs or they simply lie later.

Leashing adds another layer of consensus voting, (which complicates an already complicated game) but I do see an upside when it comes to mass claim later. Ie, "I have a guilty on Pooky" "bull crap, the artifact I sent you doesn't do that."

pedit: I was gonna say maybe someone who's better at mechanics than me could weigh in but I think Tammy explained where I'm at better than I could


-k

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I like the idea of accountability, think games with items or games like marketplace that roles are passed around are very often lost because town did not hold people accountable,

Passing it to a second person might not give us that clearance though because people can pass it to their partner for verification.

I also don’t think we should be like you have to pass it because that person could also be scum whether the first was town, it’s expecting everyone to accept this which people aren’t going to do, and it’s plain no fun to vote for someone to get a role because we The they’re town and then go nope can’t use it,

I’m all for accountability, but I don’t really like that kind of leash. I’ve been debating how much they should tell us about the artifact. Whatever the negative thing is might be best kept away from scum.

ok I guess we should give it to somebody with a real crappy scum range then?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if a scumbag gets their dirty hands on the artifact and lies about it, that's just one scumbag

if he passes it off to his scumbuddy, thats two scumbags.

[Bell]

#192: You called?

[Tammy]

#192: You called?

I was gonna day that’s like me and bell I think and that would get real boring, but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings if you were sensitive about it so I just chuckled to myself.

[Tammy]

Yah, but mafia could just pass it among themselves and lie anyway

Leashing could work but it's tricky considering we don't necessarily want scum to know who has what artifacts. And considering passing isn't public knowledge. So, say, we all vote to give the comb to LLD, and we all then insist she give it to Spiffeh. If they're scum together, (and I'm using them as examples because I'm townreading them), then either the pass never occurs or they simply lie later.

Leashing adds another layer of consensus voting, (which complicates an already complicated game) but I do see an upside when it comes to mass claim later. Ie, "I have a guilty on Pooky" "bull crap, the artifact I sent you doesn't do that."

pedit: I was gonna say maybe someone who's better at mechanics than me could weigh in but I think Tammy explained where I'm at better than I could


-k

I actually liked your explanation better.

[MathBlade]

I think the leashing idea is really not smart.

The only thing it does is keep things vanilla and powerless.

I am telling you elim me if you have to the plan is stupid.

Let’s assume Townread X gives an artifact and gives it to scum Y. Scum Y tells the truth we learn nothing.

Let’s assume Scumread Y gives it to Townread X. Townread truth tells we learn nothing unless scum intentionally want to force a 1v1 between those two players.

Assume it’s town and town. We learn nothing.
And assume it’s scum and scum we learn nothing.

Some artifacts will be meant to be passed I think and some kept.

Outing the plan is stupid though.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

mathscum thinks my plan sucks

clearly i must be on the right track.

[MathBlade]

I like the idea of accountability, think games with items or games like marketplace that roles are passed around are very often lost because town did not hold people accountable,

Passing it to a second person might not give us that clearance though because people can pass it to their partner for verification.

I also don’t think we should be like you have to pass it because that person could also be scum whether the first was town, it’s expecting everyone to accept this which people aren’t going to do, and it’s plain no fun to vote for someone to get a role because we The they’re town and then go nope can’t use it,

I’m all for accountability, but I don’t really like that kind of leash. I’ve been debating how much they should tell us about the artifact. Whatever the negative thing is might be best kept away from scum.

I agree. Accountability is good. That’s why I asked for the negative of what Prism claimed to have sent to Bork. The fact they won’t do that is very sus.

On top of that a wagon forms instantly on me (yes there’s no votes but there’s the undertones here). I am someone who distinctly knows the flavor and said so in pregame. Cakez picked up on it and if it was really as confirming as Prism said they’d have sent it to me in a heartbeat.

They’re plan was absolute crap and I called them out on it.