Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

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Post Post #950 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:44 am

Post by Bell »

In post 948, Prism wrote:
In post 846, Bell wrote:Prism is biased on Bork due to the nature of their approach to Bork.
? Unclear what you mean by bias/nature of approach here. Bork was chosen at random to get the artifact, with the qualifier that I did at least trust he was competent enough to leave him on the list. You weren't in 2181, are you referring to that game?
In post 846, Bell wrote:Put me in the Prism is a scum read because of paranoia at appearing fairly spotless read. Or 'I hate people that have every post bleed town read'
I don't get your positioning around me. You've repeatedly alluded to my posts being town all game. To my knowledge, you have never once seen me flip scum beyond the first post of FGO, and until two weeks ago my record as scum was virtually nonexistent. You did similar weird shit in Xenoblade, where we were both town and where the action I wanted (you to drive us) was more ambiguous in my incentive for it. In contrast, this game the incentive as town is very unambiguous.

It's unclear to me if you're saying all of my posting is town/spotless, or that I'm trying to keep myself spotless by gratuitously giving townreads. If this is the case, do you think the plan with my gamestart was for me to go deep over powertowning to burn 2/3 miselims?

I actually worked through this on my own, and in conjunction with realizing you didn't actually call my posts town think most of this has been answered, but I'll leave the post as-is because I think the question above is a bit of an inconsistency worth chewing on.
You gave Bork a test and the answers to the test were fairly clear and unlikely to be tripped by scum.
Yes, because I think you’re good scum and playing a spotless town game, I am putting you through an additional layer of skepticism. You can chew on it if you’d like. But i’m disinterested as to whether you think I’m shading you or not.
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Post Post #951 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:48 am

Post by Prism »

Wasn't a test for Bork at all, there's literally no choice but to confirm it or he basically gets policied. I was definitely spitballing before my drive last night but it was everything about his posting yesterday and nothing to do with his reaction to the artifact, I had him in the null-leaning-scumpile before yesterday. I'll elaborate if if I still feel that way in a bit.

I'm actually really struggling to find a good starting point given that I've been kind of half here phoneskimming, half not, and ISOs aren't my style, so I'm going to just start from scratch which might take a couple of hours.
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Post Post #952 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:50 am

Post by Bell »

Best of luck to you. If you’re scum this game and keep up your posting I’d nom you for a scummy if they weren’t closed right now.
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Post Post #953 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:53 am

Post by SirCakez »

Prism what is a game where you were scum?
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I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
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Post Post #954 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:54 am

Post by penguin_alien »

Afternoon Vote Count 1.05

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes bronze.

Dunnstral (3): quiet, Battle Mage, Spiffeh
MathBlade (5): Bell, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Titus, Dunnstral
Titus (2): GreyICE, sangres
SirCakez (2): mastina, Kitty Trauma Team
Prism (1): MathBlade
PookyTheMagicalBear (1): SirCakez

Not voting (3): Tammy, borkjerfkin, Prism


Mod notes: 37/85 pages used
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Post Post #955 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:00 am

Post by SirCakez »

I wonder if this is the game where Battle Mage and I are town together :)
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I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
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Post Post #956 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:03 am

Post by Prism »

In post 953, SirCakez wrote:Prism what is a game where you were scum?
Full record

Iceland, Jan 2021 (Personal Notes PT)
Scumsman, Black Hole Defection, March 2020
The Thaw, March 2018
The Mod Is Mafia, Stalfos, Sep 2017
Miss List, July 2017
Market Blitz, Apr 2017
Sakura Wars, Reflektor, Apr 2017
Mini Normal 1838, Oct 2016

Iceland if you want an idea of range, Thaw/Market Blitz/1838 best stylistic/positional samples.

FGO/GG1 aren't linked because I posted like twice in each.
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Post Post #957 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:04 am

Post by Prism »

In post 952, Bell wrote:Best of luck to you. If you’re scum this game and keep up your posting I’d nom you for a scummy if they weren’t closed right now.
I'm not scum anyway but in case anyone considers it for my other games: Save yourself the trouble, I don't accept nominations.
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Post Post #958 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:11 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

cakeboi trying real hard to get into the too scummy to be scum pile. playing into his natural strengths. :3
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Post Post #959 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:13 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 958, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:cakeboi trying real hard to get into the too scummy to be scum pile. playing into his natural strengths. :3
yes this is my plan
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I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
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Post Post #960 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:19 am

Post by sangres »

I don't think Newbie's generally count for scummies consideration. If they did, Prism would be declining a nomination this year.

Anyway, I really don't like mastina's flavor-case. It takes a cartoonish oversimplification of HG to call her a baddie IMO, given how evil and twisted the antagonists of that series are.

It's almost as bad as calling Artie a likely scum role because of what using Magellan's Astrolabe did to him.
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Post Post #961 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:27 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 944, SirCakez wrote:All of the above
All three of you are clowns
TFW scum!Cake can't figure out how town!Cake would respond and tries goes for the "all of the above gambit"
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Post Post #962 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:02 am

Post by Prism »

@sangres:
Your posts themselves are town but I am very concerned that Nacho is actually playing the game.
In post 24, Tammy wrote:I'm not the same player I used to be. I am town; I am still readable, but if you had meta tells such as Tammy reacts x way if I call her scum when she's town, posts x amount if town, gets super emotionally invested if town, is aggressive as town, is only mad in a certain way as town, or any other pretty superficial thing that was part of my meta then, it will not apply now. (Hopefully, oh gods hopefully)
@Mastina
Can you elaborate on your early read of Tammy as town?
In post 123, Bell wrote:VOTE: Bell

I'm town. Give me the gun.
...Do you understand why this concerns me, Bell? I no longer have petapan to outsource this read to.

I still have no clue how to read MathBlade and am going to have to actually look at sample games, Spiffeh is still good, Pooky is a coinflip and not bad vote, Titus's opening posts were worse than I give them credit for. I still feel good about BM from what I've seen of him in Xenoblade/Primroses but I might have to look at other scumgames, the mechanical focus early was questionable. Cakez is still super town and natural to me, whereas in Xenoblade instictively I was ready to turbovote him very early. Tammy is still super fucking town from 147 alone.

I actually kind of wonder if 148 is just openly mechfishing from Pooky given that he has seen my mechanical competence and he's seriously pretending I might have mechanically scumclaimed Post 1.

Be back after lunch and sorry I'm slow as fuck.
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Post Post #963 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:07 am

Post by Bell »

No.
It’s very much in character for me to want things town should want as town.
I’m not a difficult read. Pretty much everybody that matters already thinks I’m town this game.
And I will not let them or you forget it.

Food tell
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Post Post #964 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:11 am

Post by Tammy »

So you guys get me until my car is done being serviced. I think I'm in a good spot with getting caught up with grading and not being so burnt out by it, so I might come back tonight if i have the patience. I'm gonna try to get all my thoughts out in one post, so sorry for the length, but some of you are forgetting that our pages are limited and you should stop spamming one liners (Hi Cakez Hi!). There are some pages I haven't read, so if I miss something, let me know, but seeing how little I care for the pages I did read around the ones I missed I'm not overly concerned I missed something groundbreaking.

Anyway earlier I was thinking that maybe I was forcing a town read on someone that I shouldn't be, and I was wondering if that someone was Prism, but after recent posts, I don't think I am. That town read still feels good.

Mastina - I don't understand your scum read on prism for a couple reasons. One is the point against them saying that they're being more abrasive this game on purpose and your argument is that 9 times out of 10, that comes from scum. However, you called my first post town, and my first post talked about meta and how some of my meta didn't apply anymore. I actually expected to get scum read for that post by the people it was directed to, but you called it town. And for Prism, I can't imagine anyone intimate with Prism to be all like Prism is never abrasive, so scum. And two, are you really trying to make a flavor argument for Prism scum? I don't think for a second, the mods make this game breakable by flavor, and if scum Prism was given that as a fake claim, probably, which means it wasn't meant to be alignment indicative anyway.
In post 713, sangres wrote:
In post 303, Tammy wrote:Not sure what to think of titus and interaction with math bland there :/
could you talk to me about this?

i'm townreading too many people and i liked titus's interaction there but titus could very well be a weak spot.
In post 714, sangres wrote:
In post 359, Tammy wrote:Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?
pretty firmly townreading him at this point in the read.
Thanks for the spiffeh read. I'm feeling pretty damn good about him being town too at this point, so it's nice that you've provided backup!

For Titus, uh I felt like the interaction felt wrong at the same level that Bell's interaction felt wrong. I think that Bell is probably town now regardless of the pedantic mansplaining me on how I felt about their interactions, and I think that Bell's push there feels pretty similar to the shelly push in xenoblade, so is probably town. But with Titus I'm much less sure, and the interaction felt kind of mother hennish in a way that didn't feel natural. The bit that felt like it was the type of "Get in line or I'll policy lynch you" when I don't think math has been doing anything really wrong here. I think he's been put in defensive mode here, which makes him hard to read, but nothing that's policy level, you know. Mathblade was another one I was worried I was forcing a town read on, but I don't really find anything scummy about him. Maybe not as tunneling as I thought he was as town, but I have exactly one game of experience, so I don't know what to expect there. I do think things like "GreyIce is town because I understand him" weirds me out because like GreyIce is an intelligent human being who can string sentences together and I can't really buy that reasoning as a real read, but I still think he's probably town. Spiffeh being so convinced there makes me just a tad worried about Spiffeh actually. But apparently any interaction or read with Mathblade makes me worried about both involved, and I'm not really sure what to make of that.

But one thing I was thinking about this morning was this post:
In post 267, Titus wrote:Ok. I realized my error and read deeper. I think that we should look at two phases with different leaders. People good at townblocking should lead at assigning artifacts. Those good at scumhunting should lead bronzing. These are separate people. I'd defer to Tammy on the artifact (assuming she's town) and LLD (same assumption) leading the afternoon phase. It's harder to scumhunt here without pressure.

Catching up.
On it's face this post isn't problematic, but she has LLD as the person who should lead the afternoon phase because good at scumhunting, but at the time LLD had scumread Mathblade (and wanted him dead asap), Titus, maybe Prism, maybe Spiffeh. Titus was town reading Math, there's Titus herself, and there wasn't reads on Spiffeh or Prism given yet. It just feels odd to me to say that LLD should be in charge of leading the afternoon when the scum reads don't add up. I might be seeing too much in this which I guess could have just been a side thought, but that also doesn't match up to the treatment of LLD once she claimed Mason. Now I get 100% people being concerned that it's a fake claim, but the turn in hostility with things like LLD is playing like shit (which really can we just as a group remember we're not 5 year old asshats trying to make everyone feel like shit???), that she just wants control, and the tantrum bit felt odd and I’m not sure what to do with it. I don’t like her blaming mathblade for taking up her scumhunting space when there are others who are actually making throw away posts that some of that should be directed to.

I don’t feel good I don’t know if that answered your question cuz I kinda just ended up rambling.
In post 254, sangres wrote:But if you're scum putting in work this game I'm still going to slam dunk you just FYI
This post here I also thought about this morning. Kinda knee jerk didn’t like it when you posted it but I wasn’t sure why. I think why I don’t is that it feels purple prosish in a sense. And ffery’s posts haven’t hit town paean more yet, so that knee jerk there just feared it’s ugly head this morning. I guess I also don’t quite get what you guys are getting out of the house questioning Dunn over him saying you guys were getting town read too easily either.

Okay my car is done, so I’m stopping here. I might have more to say about the above. Will come back later when I’m at home.
I am in the top 90% of scumhunters onsite!
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Post Post #965 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:17 am

Post by MathBlade »

Tammy is town.
Bell is town.
Cakez is pretty near that level.

I have decided to swap from scum reads to town reads and people never to elim if I get miselimmed. That’s more my strength anyway.
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Post Post #966 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:19 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 955, SirCakez wrote:I wonder if this is the game where Battle Mage and I are town together :)
To elaborate on this, he feels different from previous games but like not in a bad way? He feels a lot more transparently town then in other games.
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Post Post #967 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:06 am

Post by Prism »

In post 963, Bell wrote:No.
It’s very much in character for me to want things town should want as town.
I’m not a difficult read. Pretty much everybody that matters already thinks I’m town this game.
And I will not let them or you forget it.

Food tell
I am very, very glad I went to lunch and a walk before making this.

The issue is not you being paranoid or not townreading me. The issue is that any attempt to dialogue with you across three different fucking games has been met with outright hostility and refusal to exercise even the most rudimentary level of critical thinking when presented with feedback on your thought processes. Simultaeously, I am apparently god herself because I made a fucking horrendous opening post in FGO that the one player who knew me correctly identified it as a hard scumclaim. I replaced out of illicit half because of you, half because ffery was being annoying. I tolerated you in Xenoblade because I had petapan. I considered dodging this game for several players in the list and you are one of them. I no longer consider the first an option, and petapan is not here. You are not scum right now, but if we lose later because you won't fucking dialogue with me and say "It's obvious", I will not feel even remotely sorry for you.

Sit down, and think to yourself again whether "spotless go deep scumplay" matches up even remotely with page 1 of the game, and do better.
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Post Post #968 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:09 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 962, Prism wrote:I actually kind of wonder if 148 is just openly mechfishing from Pooky given that he has seen my mechanical competence and he's seriously pretending I might have mechanically scumclaimed Post 1.
or I just suck at reading :3
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Post Post #969 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:20 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 942, Prism wrote:
In post 821, Titus wrote:I don't really care if it bothers you. LLD is about control and that's a fact. LLD claiming mason is manipulative. That's a fact. LLD has fakeclaimed mason before. That's a fact. LLD has a temper that's a fact. I don't care if I provoke it. That's a fact.
My point was that going out of your way to highlight how you're willing to risk being another innocent tantrum victim, struck down for the sake of the truth, felt very performative.
In post 821, Titus wrote:If saying facts is manipulative, then I am guilty.
This is nice rhetoric but you're not Dwight Schrute or a PragerU video, I suspect you're not naive enough to believe that the selection and presentation of facts aren't extremely important.
In post 821, Titus wrote:I feel LLD is doing this controlling behavior because otherwise she'll feel drowned out in a playerlist with Tammy and Nacho.
This is subjective but I don't really think this is true. Tammy was a more vocal voice but sangres, while active and opinionated, was intentionally playing a reserved role. As for other players, I don't think LLD was scared of me getting the artifact and leading at all. As I'll get to in a second, contextually I don't think it makes much sense. She's also been more than happy to let others continue to push and investigate without shutting it down.
In post 821, Titus wrote:You were getting the artifact before LLD claimed and insisted she get it.
This isn't true if you look at how it went down. LLD explicitly was fine with someone else receiving the artifact, which I found scummy given her stance it needed to go to town.

It took me saying she was scumclaiming to get her to intervene, but the point of it wasn't to seize the artifact-it was to sort me and make sure I wasn't scum getting the artifact by seeing how I reacted to her when challenged. Getting the artifact as a result was a forseeable result, but it took me making a questionable attack to trigger her claim.
In post 821, Titus wrote:LLD is all about control.
There's an important distinction between "control of the final vote" and "control of the discussion". I don't think the former is very AI, and I don't think she's tried to domineer the discussion at all. The few times she exerted it was has been pretty judicious/limited.

I'll work through you/Math more fully and get back to you but this doesn't fill me with confidence.
The way in which you understand my approach and still play off it, and clearly are using similar attack->analyze patterns to me has earned a lot of respect from me?

Like, it's posts like this that make me pause and go "yo, okay, this person is really good". It also makes me realize we are gonna butt heads in a lot of games we play in because of styles like this.

So I appreciate the like, manner in which you understand why I do these things and this post was really cool? IDK, this post is kind of useless and doesn't really contribute to a read on you in any manner, I just wanted to say I've gained a ton of respect for you as a player vis a vis this post.
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Post Post #970 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:27 am

Post by Prism »

In post 963, Bell wrote:No.
It’s very much in character for me to want things town should want as town.
Just in case you actually thought deeply about this and didn't see the issue: I did the same thing, but was willing to flavor claim and give mechanical information to a third party to try to make it happen.

I don't really want to talk with you anymore about myself right now, the point of the above wasn't "Critically think and you'll townread me!", but for next time I try and nudge you more on another slot, maybe keep how I'm currently thinking in mind.
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Post Post #971 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:42 am

Post by GreyICE »

In post 927, mastina wrote:
In post 818, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Quite possibly the towniest town who ever towned
Honestly not wrong.

I actually think you're probably my strongest non-LLD townread, which would be:
Lady Lambdadelta*
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
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sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez
FUCK YOU

I DON'T WANT TO LYNCH LLD DAY ONE

I'VE BEEN AVOIDING THIS
That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil


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Post Post #972 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:45 am

Post by GreyICE »

Like she's not town.
I know she's not town.
It's just not a wagon that's going to succeed today, and I'd like to play a game with my wife where something stupid doesn't happen day 1.
If I'm dead tonight come back to this plox
That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil


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Post Post #973 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:48 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

she might be trying to use SMP against us

but it's also NAI cuz town!Mastina would do the same thing lulz

maybe the readslist is actually inverted
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Bell
Bell
He/him
Sharp Note
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User avatar
Bell
He/him
Sharp Note
Sharp Note
Posts: 14474
Joined: July 14, 2020
Pronoun: He/him

Post Post #974 (ISO) » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:50 am

Post by Bell »

In post 967, Prism wrote:
In post 963, Bell wrote:No.
It’s very much in character for me to want things town should want as town.
I’m not a difficult read. Pretty much everybody that matters already thinks I’m town this game.
And I will not let them or you forget it.

Food tell
I am very, very glad I went to lunch and a walk before making this.

The issue is not you being paranoid or not townreading me. The issue is that any attempt to dialogue with you across three different fucking games has been met with outright hostility and refusal to exercise even the most rudimentary level of critical thinking when presented with feedback on your thought processes. Simultaneously, I am apparently god herself because I made a fucking horrendous opening post in FGO that the one player who knew me correctly identified it as a hard scumclaim. I replaced out of illicit half because of you, half because ffery was being annoying. I tolerated you in Xenoblade because I had petapan. I considered dodging this game for several players in the list and you are one of them. I no longer consider the first an option, and petapan is not here. You are not scum right now, but if we lose later because you won't fucking dialogue with me and say "It's obvious", I will not feel even remotely sorry for you.

Sit down, and think to yourself again whether "spotless go deep scumplay" matches up even remotely with page 1 of the game, and do better.
I am sorry that you felt this way about me and did not enjoy playing with me. Without expressing your feelings directly I won't notice your frustrations.

I shut down dialogue about whether or not I am scum or whether or not my thinking makes sense because engaging people on their read of me is unpleasant for me and rarely feels productive. I will explain my thinking, but "does it make sense for Bell to be this paranoid on day 1 about me given I posted like once in FGO and he is using that as the basis for his opinion of me doesn't make sense." I refer to the idea of how foundational (by necessity really) first impressions are and they rarely go away. I did not feel like going through the minor frustrations of articulating myself on that, not because I'm scum, but because it's just hard to explain how I felt about your posts in FGO and how when reisoing your slot later in that game turned me away from thinking you were scum and how that was problematic for the game state at the time. Because I felt that your early post was distinctly townie in appearance. Now somebody being famliar with your play an calling it a scum claim is great and all but I didn't know that nor was I likely going to give them the time of day on a swipe read like that, that they made in jest and didn't even follow it up with a vote.

Likewise, I don't see why me asking for the comb is in anyway concerning, sure I could have been scum and if you were town that distrust might have made you feel afraid, but given you also self-voted for it, as did others you should be able to understand why I would want it. You quoted me mentioning I wanted it because I was town and agreed with me later. . You linked that post but did not articulate what about me self voting and asking for the comb was problematic, so I either had to guess or.

I mean, just reading what I've written so fair, I'm like, why did I even write all this? What good will it do? and iunno, but I'll respect your feelings on this matter and answer your questions when you ask.
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