[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Gypyx]

oh yeah it's cleaner like that, thanks

seems balanced otherwise?

[BBmolla]

hey, wanted to run that sometime soon in the Micro Queue so does that feel balanced to y'all? (yeah this is probably a pretty different way to play the game, but imo it's still mafia, kinda, idk i like the original game and wanted to see how it would be like there)

Mindnight : forum edition

4 Agents
1 Admin

2 hackers
1 scriptie

The Admin is aware of who are the members of the hacker team, but not what are their roles (pls wait before saying this is outrageous you'll see)

The hackers have a PT in which they may talk at any time, they don't know who's the scriptie and he doesn't know who they are

instead of voting to execute peoples, the players take turn suggesting and voting for a team to send for "node maintenances", players propose teams in order of the playerlist, they may skip their turns, and upon thee 5th refused node team, the hackers immediatly win

once a node team has been approved by majority, the game enters a 24h "night" phase where all of the members of the node team must choose to either

hack

it, or

secure

it, a single hack makes the node mission fail

There are 5 nodes in total, having the following sizes in that order :
1st node : 2 players 2nd : 3 players 3rd : 4 players 4th : 3 players 5th : 4 players

the first team to gain control of 3 nodes wins, if the agents win, the hackers get one last chance, they are all revealed to each other, and may try to nuke one player, if the nuked player is the Admin, victory goes to the hackers instead

Mindnight is based off The Resistance which has been run here more than few times in the Mish Mash lobby

Auro and I ran a sort of Mafia/Resistance combo last year actually called Chromavalon

[Jingle]

IIRC the consensus is that games of that nature are better run in the Mishmash as Molla suggested. The departure being a lack of nightkill and day elimination.

Secret Hitler also falls under this category and is run semi regularly in the Mishmash afaik.

Seems balanced enough to run from what I remember of the Merlin version of Avalon, though, which is the closest comparison to your game I can think of. In fact, I think mechanically your game is a direct comparison to Avalon with Merlin and Oberon, while allowing for a voluntary passing of the team leader role that doesn't count towards the failed team limit, although I'd have to dig out the game to check the details on how many players go on each mission and how many failed teams lose the game.

[Gypyx]

hmmm, alright, haven't heard of it named like that's cool though

i'll consider running it soon then, what's avalon?

[Jingle]

Babysitter probably sits on alien most of the game.

Does killing the alien trigger the babysitter’s kill?

haven't really outlined that yet but i'd say no

making the alien macho is an idea but then this would probably go into scum-sided territory and make this even more swingy

It already seems scumsided, tbh.

Town's only investigative role probably only nets a guilty on one scum on night one and gives unreliable clears, unless a protection is achieved. Meanwhile, scum has a role that helps them find the protectives and a role that means an outed protective is functionally useless, while town's real power is massively nerfed by being lovers. I'd suggest getting rid of the Encryptor and the MD. Alternatively, you could keep the encryptor but make the psychologist unlimited shot, but that turns town power into a win more proposition where the game gets exponentially harder for scum with each scum elimination, which is probably undesirable considering the Alien already does that.

[Jingle]

hmmm, alright, haven't heard of it named like that's cool though

i'll consider running it soon then, what's avalon?

Fantasy reskin of Resistance. It was the one that introduced variant roles past the all-knowing resistance member, and for a while was the only way to pick up a copy of the game. The roles are included in the article BB linked to.

FWIW, ETL also did a mafia/Resistance combination game at some point that was pretty cool, and if anyone wanted to redesign a setup like that or the aforementioned Chromavalon it would likely be well received.

[Gypyx]

i'll think about that then

[lendunistus]

apologies, but bump: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12622286

[BBmolla]

apologies, but bump: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12622286

I would run as is, looks balanced. Really rough if the Psychologist gets a guilty result on the Babysitter night 1, or if the pair die night 1, but I don't think it's unwinnable if that happens.

I would add a modifier to the Encryptor to describe the "can't kill unless 1 mafia exist" affect. Maybe like "Hesistant" or something. Just makes it more clear.

[BBmolla]

Now that I'm thinking about it, might be beneficial for Alien to claim day 1 to force a counter claim or even just to force the Roleblocker to roleblock them night 1 and 2.

You can do a weak follow the cop.

[BBmolla]

Lemme think on it.

[Jingle]

Now that I'm thinking about it, might be beneficial for Alien to claim day 1 to force a counter claim or even just to force the Roleblocker to roleblock them night 1 and 2.

You can do a weak follow the cop.

If alien claims D1 scum can MD an unclaimed town, kill an unclaimed town for a 1/9 chance of killing both and a 1/9 of catching a town PR. Town gets a 0% of stopping a kill, and it's exactly as likely for the psychologist to hit the babysitter as the scum who didn't make the kill, meaning a fake guilty is the same as an actual guilty and the Psych becomes a glorified IC. It also gives the scum the ability to narrow down the babysitter based on JK's actions.

Probably better if the Psych claims D2 without outing their target and the JK targets them at night so that you can play pseudo Follow the IC, as the psychologist is unlikely to die before scum kill the rest of the power because they won't be able to tell if they detected the JK or the babysitter.

Still think it's probably scum sided as is, tbh.

[BBmolla]

Now that I'm thinking about it, might be beneficial for Alien to claim day 1 to force a counter claim or even just to force the Roleblocker to roleblock them night 1 and 2.

You can do a weak follow the cop.

If alien claims D1 scum can MD an unclaimed town, kill an unclaimed town for a 1/9 chance of killing both and a 1/9 of catching a town PR. Town gets a 0% of stopping a kill, and it's exactly as likely for the psychologist to hit the babysitter as the scum who didn't make the kill, meaning a fake guilty is the same as an actual guilty and the Psych becomes a glorified IC. It also gives the scum the ability to narrow down the babysitter based on JK's actions.

Probably better if the Psych claims D2 without outing their target and the JK targets them at night so that you can play pseudo Follow the IC, as the psychologist is unlikely to die before scum kill the rest of the power because they won't be able to tell if they detected the JK or the babysitter.

Still think it's probably scum sided as is, tbh.

I'm balancing it against Friends and Enemies, it definitely could be scumsided. I think more often than night the lovers die one of the first two nights (due to being outed one way or another) and the Psych misses so it's generally a bit like a weaker Friends and Enemies (except only two masons know each other) which is townsided anyways.

idk, that was my thought process

I think psych always claims d2 no matter what

[BBmolla]

I think if we concurred it was scumsided I would change 1-shot Psych to Macho Psych.

[BBmolla]

With the false negative I think it's okay to have the Psych be not x-shot, along with the fact town are going to lose a day when the Lovers die

[Sirius9121]

exCUSE me but isn't it just a complete copy of this game @gypyx

[lendunistus]

Aliensitter Needed!

13 Players:

1x Town Lover Babysitter - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Babysitter; can't self-target
1x Town Lover Alien - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Alien_(role) protects from kills, can't self-target
1x Town Macho Psychologist - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Psychologist
7x Vanilla Townie
1x Mafia Cowardly Encryptor - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Encryptor
1x Mafia Motion Detector - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... n_Detector
1x Mafia 2-shot Roleblocker - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

Lover - If a Lover dies by any means, their partner also dies instantly (this cannot be stopped). Lovers know each other's identity and have a PT, where they may talk at night.

Mafia daytalk is dependent on the survival of the Encryptor.

Cowardly - Unable to carry out the nightkill until they are the only mafia alive (which also means that Psychologist will yield a "not able to kill" result on them until that happens).

Macho - Any protective action targeted at this player (including abduction) will automatically fail.

Psychologist will yield a "can kill" result on the Babysitter.

If the Alien dies, the Babysitter's death will

not

trigger the death kill on their target.

Daystart. Mafia win upon parity with the town.

Mafia ARE NOT multitasking.

tweaked according to Jingle’s and BBMolla’s suggestions

few questions:

1. is it fine from a balance perspective to have both a false negative AND a false positive here for psych in terms of alignment?
2. is it customary on mafiascum to tell PRs that their action failed when they target a macho player?

abductions on psych would fail outright, not just go through without the protection

[Gypyx]

exCUSE me but isn't it just a complete copy of this game @gypyx

nope other way around

[Sirius9121]

exCUSE me but isn't it just a complete copy of this game @gypyx

nope other way around

what a thick-skinned face

[Jingle]

1. is it fine from a balance perspective to have both a false negative AND a false positive here for psych in terms of alignment?
2. is it customary on mafiascum to tell PRs that their action failed when they target a macho player?

From a balance perspective? It's just two nerfs to the role, which is completely legitimate. The question of course being whether those two nerfs are necessary. It's a fine choice so long as the rest of the setup makes it make sense, especially in an open where it's known that those nerfs exist. In a closed setup, excessive nerfing of a role can be frustrating, but this particularly set (a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative) wouldn't be unreasonable.

Generally speaking, power roles aren't notified their action failed unless they get a visible result. For example, a tracker might receive a "No Result" PM because their role normally gives them a result PM. A doctor on the other hand would have no idea that their save failed because they wouldn't normally get a result PM. Of course, it's completely reasonable to have a setup where a doctor would be notified that their role failed, that would just have to be accounted for in the design.

[Jingle]

I think scum is more likely to find the masonry than in F&E, but I legitimately hadn't considered that as a starting point for the comparison. I do like the Macho Psych suggestion, and I think it solves the grossness of a follow the IC strat pretty well. I like that only one member of the masonry is ever safe from the NK, and I don't think it's likely that town ever nets a miselim or a psych guilty, but that the possibility for it to happen is a cool feature of the setup.

Depending on playerlist I'd probably play in the setup as described in 1116.

[lendunistus]

I think scum is more likely to find the masonry than in F&E, but I legitimately hadn't considered that as a starting point for the comparison. I do like the Macho Psych suggestion, and I think it solves the grossness of a follow the IC strat pretty well. I like that only one member of the masonry is ever safe from the NK, and I don't think it's likely that town ever nets a miselim or a psych guilty, but that the possibility for it to happen is a cool feature of the setup.

Depending on playerlist I'd probably play in the setup as described in 1116.

alright, i'll make it so that babysitter and alien don't get informed of any results they might get

[lendunistus]

I think scum is more likely to find the masonry than in F&E, but I legitimately hadn't considered that as a starting point for the comparison. I do like the Macho Psych suggestion, and I think it solves the grossness of a follow the IC strat pretty well. I like that only one member of the masonry is ever safe from the NK, and I don't think it's likely that town ever nets a miselim or a psych guilty, but that the possibility for it to happen is a cool feature of the setup.

Depending on playerlist I'd probably play in the setup as described in 1116.

alright, i'll make it so that babysitter and alien don't get informed of any results they might get

i'll put it on the open queue once the micro i'm in queue to mod gets going and finishes

[lendunistus]

added a couple clarifications to the setup as well (neither alien or babysitter can self-target, mafia cannot multitask)

[Isis]

2:4 nightless.
First elim is a mandatory vengecop.

Playable?