Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[MathBlade]

Thanks Mala

So on deck for Saturday is
Bell’s case on me
Titus’s catchup
Mala ISOing BM
And Nacho

Gonna exit the thread for post count unless I am talked about or asked a question or responded to.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

You are talking to Kuribo, not me Math.

We are both online and posting. I’m just being a lazy bum in my bed trying to fight this headache, but I’ll prob be going to sleep in a few bc I can’t stand the pain.

-M

[Prism]

Me, sangres, Tammy, and Spiffeh all have basically the same reads and somehow this game is still hard. Amazing.

[Bell]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were only counting times when you rolled scum by yourself.

[Spiffeh]

Tammy and Prism

If you decided this instant who the lim was, out of everyone itg

Who would you pick

[Prism]

Quiet, not even close.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD - I know that you don't often like to talk about town reads, thought you sometimes will!, could you say something about why you have Dunn at 75% town?

Call it equal parts a desire to give them space to see more and something I've noted from recent games with them in which they have invariably flipped town each time.

It's not as high as others because I don't have the full confidence that Dunn is the exact same? Less active this game than I would expect, but I wonder if there's not other reasons for that.

In general I'm just not in favour of that being the kill today, and don't think any new info is learned by allowing dunn to undergo pressure.

Plus, I can leverage pressure on other parts of the game by denying that as an option and seeing whether they adapt or just flail.

[Spiffeh]

Prism, can you elaborate on your quiet scum read?

I'm a little tipsy so I may have missed it, you can quote me the post where you explain if you have already.

[Prism]

Yes. It was. I want to see more. insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here.

This was about quiet's opening post. What's your current thinking on the slot/what made you iffy on the start? I know you didn't want to reveal fully what you're expecting, but I suspect you can go a bit deeper here.

I thought Quiet might be a little less heart-on-sleeve after Iceland, so the reserve isn't surprising. but I feel like his posts are more self-contained? Not as much reaction/replying. It's hard to say for sure with just 8 posts to look at.

In general, big drop-off in activity from one game to the next in a new player gives me strong scum-vibes. Right now, I'm thinking he's scum even though what content he's put down, on the face of it doesn't scream scum.

More content, and soon is what I need here.

sangres said it best here.

For sangres I basically felt the same on quiet w/ the selfcontained posts, combine that with very gut/tonal reasoning rather than the deeper curiosity he couldn't really keep inside during Iceland and you have me skeptical.

Most of this is re: quiet, originally had a vote here but I'll keep holding off. Bottom is a response to Dunn.

Quote about being glad to see the artifact go to LLD over me is weird and out of place, especially given that you didn't TR them outside of the claim (and appeared to think mine was town earlier, even if paranoid).

I like Spiff, +SirCakez for the Dunn read and follow up, and I think SirCakez has been generally driving the game forward. With Spiffeh, I appreciate the willingness to TR Math and express discomfort with that wagon; I'm not all the way there yet on Math, but that's at least twice now they've posted something I thought was rather useful + aligned with how I'm reading the game.

These reads aren't bad but the reasoning is really lacking imo based off who you've seen flip what in prior games, and your better understanding of range.

So as usual, I'm townbucketing way too many people

Best part of this post is probably the second half, combination pairings might have looked good after Iceland but are generally an illusionary hope and should just be abandoned to later days.

quiet rises to the challenge if he feels out of his depth as town because he has nothing to fear except being wrong, always extremely curious and eager to engage with anything and everything that moves. Here I think he got outright overwhelmed and intimidated by the strength of the table as scum

The early posts weren't great but not blatantly scum, I do feel being scared to post entirely and getting overwhelmed by a game that is comparatively smaller than he's used to dealing with, and the only game he's playing, became more and more strongly AI as time went on.

[Spiffeh]

Is it possible quiet siteflaked?

[Tammy]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were only counting times when you rolled scum by yourself.

Yeah I count them as separate. There's something about hydraing with someone who loves scum that affects your approach and gives you some confidence you don't feel on your own. Let's just say I'm not looking forward to the junk pile that is my first scum game in years. And if my first scum game in years is against nacho it will be a disaster. Not that I've never fooled nacho or won't make it my personal mission to fool him again; it's just that first time. won't be pretty.

This really doesn't mean anything though. Is there anything you want to ask me?

LLD - Thank you! I think the thing that bothers me the most about Dunn is the feeling like he's kinda hiding behind you a bit, which you might not mind, but a couple places has felt weird. And then a characterization here or there about Math that felt similar to his play in Popcorn where he was scum and I let him get past me. And right now my waffle is one part yeah he feels like scum and not like he felt in xenoblade or tenet as town, and the other part am I looking at some of these things and calling them scummy because I'm overcorrecting for letting him get by me in popcorn?

Spiffeh - On quiet - I just didn't have much of a town gut feeling on him. But I really hated his Math position which felt like he felt like he needed to say a bunch of stuff about Math but didn't know what he should be saying about Math. But damn upon rereading his iso I don't dislike him as much as my memory of his posts did.

[Prism]

This was his only game, so hypothetically possible, but as a player in general he noticeably has a real passion/curiosity to solve the game as town and siteflaking would be one of the biggest wastes of talent in years.

[sangres]

This seems like a good time to pull that moldy draft post I tucked away after Mathblade accused me of making an accidental scum PT post, to explain the ~insert paragraph~ that I didn't bother to insert because I figured that Prism's thoughts would be pretty similar to mine given similar meta experience with town-Quiet (mod vs informed scum).

I didn't want to too much into the thread about what was bothering me at that point because I expected Quiet to come back and I wanted the waters he'd have to navigate to be still, so I could see the ripples he made.

---------------------

Now that I think about it quiet's opening post was pretty rough.

Yes. It was. I want to see more. insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here.

I'm here to let everybody know that while I agree with Dunn that sangres town reads were unnatural at the beginning, Sangres is town.
Because I don't think FF, burdened with a scum role pm can compliment others in the middle of a game like that with Prism.*

*All my reads are subject to reversal.

I think Tammy was doing a seance with their boss's heart.

If you're talking about #300 at the top of this page, then you're attributing a Nacho post to me.

My puzzle is to figure out if this is a thing that town-bell would believe about scum/town ffery. :/

-----------------

Also, and this is a question for Dunn, too: Whose reads were unnatural and why?

Insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here? < What’s this?

Pretty sure my reads are bad and sangres is scum without a damn good explanation.

I started to write something about how that post didn't sound much like Iceland Quiet and it's the townread of us in this game that bothers me the most.

I'm not jumping on it because it's one post and IMO Quiet is an excellent new player. I modded his first and second newbie games and the strides taken were amazing. There were other differences in the games that factor into the changes. In his first game he was irrationally (IMO) tunneled by another player and mis-elimed. This is where my thought train about rapidly evolving newbie players comes in. There was an awkwardness to that post that I wanted to scumread because it seemed like almost a backslide from where I thought his game would go next, which could indicate a different alignment here. But, new player. rapidly evolving game. C'mon ffery, give him some room to move about the cabin.

The above paragraph is 2/3s boilerplate I'd think about any new, promising rapidly evolving player. Hence handwaving the thought train, which was mostly for Prism anyway since he was in one of those two games and basically made weaving a narrative around Quiet one of the centerpieces of his scum win. I figured Prism probably has similar issues with the post, and me spelling it out was totally unnecessary.

Also, lots of caveats about modding from an informed perspective vs playing from an uninformed one.

[Spiffeh]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

[Tammy]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

[sangres]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

Damn it you are inside my head. I don't remember us synching quite like this in the ancient games of yore.

[Prism]

I'm deeply unsatisfied with my own level of play at the moment. I now strongly oppose a hammer overnight. Skimming quiet again, and seeing his positioning around Spiffeh/Dunnstral, which makes Dunn/quiet unlikely, this game is suddenly incredibly interesting to me.

[Spiffeh]

Tbh at this point I would flash wagon Battle Mage or quiet and wouldn't feel bad about it

I am so conflicted on Titus that I'm kinda upset she's the likely lim today, but Mathblade is so obviously town that I'd lim 80% of the playerlist over him rn

[GreyICE]

Man I am incredibly happy that the Titus wagon gaining teeth has produced so much very interesting activity! It is very good to see you all. Hello hydra! You've been remarkably silent! Glad you decided to give us some activity day 1.

Prism, if you're unsatisfied with your level of play... that's on you. We have no obligation to wait.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: BM
VOTE: Dunn
VOTE: Mastina
VOTE: Titus << will rescind if she rescinds her defeatist shit

Someone’s gotta be brave enough to do the first vote. That’s where I wanna go.

Flash Battle Mage?

[Tammy]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

Damn it you are inside my head. I don't remember us synching quite like this in the ancient games of yore.

I’ve learned how to paint my face, how yo earm my keep, how o clean my kill.

Think we worked against each other more than together in the days of yore. I may have been messier too then.
But I am going to sleep!

[Spiffeh]

Math are you still pretty confident in Titus being scum here?

[MathBlade]

Math are you still pretty confident in Titus being scum here?

I am waffling some but it’s minor. Since she doesn’t want to be here, that kinda puts the waffling aside.
If someone starts a flash on any of the other three I would join it, but there is a reason you always elim defeatist players. So I am torn between the brain smart thing (Titus) and the gut smart flash BM or Mastina

[GreyICE]

VOTE: BM
VOTE: Dunn
VOTE: Mastina
VOTE: Titus << will rescind if she rescinds her defeatist shit

Someone’s gotta be brave enough to do the first vote. That’s where I wanna go.

Flash Battle Mage?

Uhhhhhh

Weren't you calling Titus scum before her defeatist shit?

Since then she's posted "playing is way too hard and the game is all stacked against the town, woe is us, there's no point in townies even trying." And now you're willing to unvote her?

Holy fuck.

You go right back into the scum pile if Titus is

scum

because this is fucking awful. In point of fact if Titus is scum I'd love to see your ass vigged tonight because damn it'd feel good to get another red flip.

And it's a large, you better believe there's some goddamn vigs.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Hello hydra! You've been remarkably silent! Glad you decided to give us some activity day 1.

lol what

whichever hydra you're referring to, both have very nearly twice as many posts as you, so no more "remarkably silent" than you yourself. Anyway, I'm glad you decided to give us some activity day 1.

-k