Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[mastina]

Christ no. I've played with Titus before, I've fought with Titus before, and no, Titus can play better than this.

So have I. Titus at her peak when she was literally nominated for Paragon can indeed play better than this, but Titus at her peak can play better as scum than this.

This is a comparative statement.

Titus, at her CURRENT level, at her distanced-from-games state, has never been townier than she's been in this game.

As in.

Titus, when suffering from crippling depression.
When struggling to post.
When struggling to stay in a game with content she believes in.

Has never been townier than she is being in this game.

In recent history, Titus has been in bad spots mentally, and her performance in games has suffered.

But this game Titus has been as town as she possibly could be, given her state.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

I'm sorry, I'm post limited. I've can only make one post for every one of your IQ points, so I'm damn near out.

it's not that my IQ is low, it's just that I have to make sure I speak on a level you can understand. it's really the best i can do without resorting to drawing you pictures.

....

anyway:

Can you talk about your Battle Mage townread? I don’t see it at all.

General feeling


Nice town vibes is probably a stronger assertion than I mean for it to sound about a player that I've barely put any scrutiny into

Could you? BM is a pretty strong scumread for me.

Just for you I'll dive the ISO when I get home

so i'm not sure how you confused me and Mala, but this is what I've got and we'll go stream of consciousness as my ancestors guide me. this is the kind of deep dive commentary that usually just goes in a t-file I keep to myself or to my hydra partners:

Early ISO kinda fluffy, there was a lot of flavor / mechanics talk around the first few pages among the general thread. ISOs 1 -3 are non AI, Iso 4 is a misunderstanding of the expression "flavor guide"

Things get a bit more substantive (is that a word, i'm a writer god dammit, if it's not a word I'm coining it now) by ISO 5: post 66 is a little fence-sitty toward LLD's Prism read. Calls it weird but questions if Prism scum would be so blatant, but then says don't give him the artifact anyway. Could be a scumbuddy of Prism and unwilling to take an early stance? Iso 6 is fluff, Iso 7 is vaguely related to the thread, still feels fluffy. Clarified in Iso 7 that he thought spiffeh's 4 scum thing was cringey. I don't remember what 4 scum thing that was, and the button to find out is on the other screen and meh. Iso 9, hops on the train to give LLD the artifact. Iso 10, fluff. Iso 11 confirms that he confirmed without the confirmation phrase. yeesh, can i stop writing confirmed. Iso 12, essentially tells people that the key to reading Math is tone and behavior. Iso 13, defends Math saying that the slot will be self-resolving. I've never liked this argument. The only self-resolving slots are the dead. 14- clarifies iso 4. 15- Wants to move past artifact phase, isn't sure Prism should be rewarded for trying so hard to get the artifact, I think is what he's saying? 16- says LLD is "on point." By this time LLD is firmly established as a town read for most anyway. 17- fluff, or rather a comment about the "insert paragraph" business. 18, urges Cakez to come over to giving LLD the artifact. 19, sitting on the fence about Prism, but prefers to give it to LLD since Prism begged harder (agreed). 20- asks Prism for a read on him

By this point I can see BM fitting into my scumreads on Cakez and Prism

21- fluff. 22- calls himself town, votes for himself to get the artifact. 23- fluff. 24- claims VT. 25- Asks for artifact, 26- asks LLD to confirm he's not mason to her. 27- Asks prism why he gave away the artifact. 28- says too early for mass claim, agreed but dude you already claimed. 29- asks Bell for artifact vote. 30- wants to know why Prism gave away the artifact. 30- I wouldn't call it fluff but I'm not commenting on this post. 31- tries to counter my accusation that he's thirsty for an artifact. 33- realizes it's not gonna happen and nakedvotes LLD. 34- fluff. 35- takes issue with Cakez repeating my thirst allegation.

By this point, LLD has received the artifact. Isos 36 and 37 are both essentially just naked voting for Dunnstral. Small defense of Mathblade in 37. 38- says Dunn is trying to deflect attention. 39- wants town to stay on Dunn. 40- Asks Pook to go back to Dunn. 41- Calls Math town based on day 1. 42- Says Titus is fine, to leave her alone for the day. 43- Says Bell always looks scummy. 44- says Math's quoted game isn't indicative of Math's ability. 45- fluff 46- calls Math, Titus, LLD, Prism possibly all town. States he has meta on Math. 47- declines to leave Dunn wagon. 48- Likes Spiffeh, doesn't want to elim Math or Titus. 48- says he'd consider bork

So iso 50 surprised me, and it's probably because on Wednesday I was riding the Pfizer wave that I didn't remember this, but he does a complete 180 on Math. this is pretty stark when you notice him defending Math up to that point and seems to come out of nowhere. 51- explains the 180, rightly points out that he had been calling math town to this point. I disagree that Math seems to not care who gets elim'd. 52, taunts his shiny new scumread. 53- speculates that people are trying to distance from scumbuddy Titus, admits he's seen it done with her as town. 54- calls mathblade scum. 55- offers post game advice to math. 56- fluff. 57- calls Math flip-floppy in terms of scumreads. I kinda can see what BM is saying here, but I don't think it's Math just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks; rather I think it's just Mathblade not being able to consolidate having too many scum reads on day 1. 58- rightfully corrects mathblade about the voting record. 59- makes the case for titus town regarding her defense of mathblade. 60- denies that it's a bad reason for townreading titus. 61- calls Dunn out for saying BM's iso is bad. 62- calls Math and Dunn scum. 63- wants to see reads. 64, says Cakez is good as scum. 65- goes VLA.

Okay, so that's my deep dive, and now if you're not reading that jumbled mess, I can give you my TLDR analysis: At first glance I thought I was going to hate this ISO. I felt like it was fluffy, and before reading him, I couldn't think of a single thing BM had said all game. But taken into its own, the iso isn't NEARLY as bad as Dunn seems to think it is. It's no fluffier than probably anyone else's, I don't like the artifact thirst, but I do like that he's pushing his scum reads, even when there doesn't seem to be traction there. He's scumreading a townread of mine, Math, but that doesn't make him scum. He's given his reasons for scumreading Math. There's an internal consistency that I feel comes through thus far. Whether BM is right or wrong, I think that HE thinks he's right.

In short, I wouldn't call BM my strongest town read by a damn sight, but he's higher than null.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Unvote

I don't want my vote resting on Titus until I have a chance to deep dive her


I'll spare you guys the stream of consciousness for that and just make Mala read it instead

[GreyICE]

VOTE: Mastina

VOTE: Mastina
Like I said would do either.

I mean at this point I am explicitly fine with these votes even/especially if GI joins them there because they're votes that were on Titus that no longer are.

I'll happily take a wagon on me if it means Titus isn't a wagon.

The more and more I see from Titus, the more and more I'm

that

sure she's town here.

Is the game just to split the wagon to reduce pressure -_-

[GreyICE]

Me, sangres, Tammy, and Spiffeh all have basically the same reads and somehow this game is still hard. Amazing.

Probably because that bloc isn't all town.

Is it possible quiet siteflaked?

Sure, but quiet's posting was scum even before the siteflake and I buy that rolling scum in a game like this could cause a siteflake.

Tbh at this point I would flash wagon Battle Mage or quiet and wouldn't feel bad about it

I mean literally the only reason I'd not vote Battle Mage is due to having a perma-scumread on the slot.

If Grey follows through with his threat..That block and Kitty all town.

Oh it's an easy threat to follow through with.

Vote: Mastina

Y'know I think I'm gonna trust my experience and the experience of Titus' brother over your assurance that this is town Titus, Mastina.

But more to the point I feel like this is a goddamn bit of theater because the Prism drum you've been banging finally broke.

[Prism]

Kind of thrown by kuribo not really pushing me after the "This 1v1 isn't over" but I remain extremely impressed by the quality of reads/posting, continues to raise the bar higher.

[mastina]

Is the game just to split the wagon to reduce pressure -_-

I mean--explicitly so, yes?

My townread on Titus is strong enough that I am willing to take some heat off of her onto myself to save her.

[GreyICE]

No Mastina

You don't get to get out of this by going "lol I'm deliberately scummy!"

I can bronze Titus tomorrow, it's no skin off my nose.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Why BM is scum

I wonder if this is the game where Battle Mage and I are town together

eh maybe

i've changed my mind on Math. Math-town tends to have a bit more focus (even if not always in the right direction). His approach today feels less discerning like "elim anybody but me". Survival first.

VOTE: mathblade

What you’re reading is more outright depression

I am trying to provide something of value here

But like I feel completely depressed here.

Each time I try to post a thought people just spam “Math’s scum” without any context or reasoning or “not cooperating” when I don’t join the wagon on the other player.

No one is really trying for another wagon and it’s just depressing. I feel like people are putting more effort into kicking me down than finding who scum actually is.

The only player who has even remotely tried to scum case me is Bell and that’s why he’s a townread of mine.

Like it’s sad. There’s no case on me it’s literally “Math didn’t post fast” and we hate Math.

Anyone on me should be justifying their vote. BM’s math is survivalistic is crap. If I was survivalistic I would be on Dunn. The vote from BM is only after I said I would do BM or Titus.

This site RVS fucking sucks and you all should be ashamed of yourselves.

i maintained throughout that you were town dude, and gave my reasons. Then I saw you indiscriminately going for anyone and everyone you thought might gain traction, and I feel like my original take may have been wrong. Your retort above in response to that is lame, because frankly you know I'm right, and trivialising it and complaining that I'm bad faithing you is not credible. In simple terms, you obviously don't care who is elimmed today, and that is scummy. And at worst, you're town who transparently couldn't give a crap about finding scum, so I'm not gonna lose sleep over it either way.

It’s not that he did a 180 Kuribo it’s that the reasoning after the 180 is BAD. It sounds good alone but look in context. It’s a lazy “maybe I am wrong”, then all of a sudden it’s gung-ho confidence. It doesn’t compute Kuribo. BM says I don’t give a crap about finding scum which is patently false.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Kind of thrown by kuribo not really pushing me after the "This 1v1 isn't over" but I remain extremely impressed by the quality of reads/posting, continues to raise the bar higher.

Again, I don't need your whole team on Day 1.

I just need one of you.

And you can rest assured that until you NK me, I'll keep coming at you the next day, and the next day, and the next day.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

It’s not that he did a 180 Kuribo it’s that the reasoning after the 180 is BAD. It sounds good alone but look in context. It’s a lazy “maybe I am wrong”, then all of a sudden it’s gung-ho confidence. It doesn’t compute Kuribo. BM says I don’t give a crap about finding scum which is patently false.

In Polite Mafia, (sorry GreyICE if I just gave you PTSD) I eliminated a scum that had been one of my top townreads when I woke up one day and decided to just start scum reading them. It's true. I had no reasoning for it. My reads had been so bad that I decided that voting my town reads couldn't be the worst thing in a game that was so boring and inactive that GreyICE *literally* posted a scum QT post in the main thread and NOBODY NOTICED.

I mean, I've voted people just because I dreamed they were scum.

But I digress. What I'm getting at is that YOU may feel his reasoning is patently false or bad, but my play style relies heavily on emotion and reactions. And I do feel thus far that BM genuinely believes his reasoning for scumreading you, despite the fact that I disagree with him.

[MathBlade]

Just keep it in mind if I die that I think Prism is town and BM is scum okay?

[mastina]

You don't get to get out of this by going "lol I'm deliberately scummy!"

Oh I'm absolutely not being deliberately scummy but if people are going to think my towngame is me as scum enough to vote me rather than Titus--I'm not gonna correct them.

To elaborate.

I'm in no way shape or form scummy this game. I'm certainly not deliberately scummy (that's a variant of the tell I am using on Prism), nor am I actually scummy.

The people defending Prism are thinking I am, but they're literally being blind. Prism is scum this game. My case

is

a solid one. Nothing Prism has done this game has been town, and Prism's pushes are, by and large, bad ones, and for all of the words Prism says, Prism isn't actually pushing hard. Prism is being hyper-aggressive but that aggression amounts to little in the way of strongly pushing reads and reasons. Like I said, Prism's done a deliberate playstyle shift to being aggressive (itself a 90% scumtell), but the shift was into aggressively null, actively avoiding trying to be power-town or power-scum. Mechanically especially with the plausible-scum flavor of HG Wells, Prism fits as scum. And people keep on saying "mastina can't be that bad for targeting such a weak case on Prism".

But the case isn't fucking weak. I know what I'm damn well talking about here. The case isn't just flavor, it's the everything, the total picture, the combination of factors adding up.

However if people are dead set on voting me in spite of me not being scummy, I'm certainly not going to stop them if the result is the collapse of the Titus wagon. While I'd prefer not to vote MathBlade (due to me having a much stronger scumread on Prism), I can always compromise there if need be; there's mounting pressure on SirCakez so my current vote's wagon can pick up momentum and steam, too.

As long as scum get eliminated today, my job is done, and as long as town isn't, I've done my job, too. And Titus isn't scum here so any method to reduce the wagon on her is worth it in the end, especially if the result is an increased chance of one or both of {MathBlade, SirCakez} being wagoned to elimination.

[sangres]

So I realize that this request comes without a handle on the game state whatsoever, but. I've waiting for a long ass time to play this game. The playerlist is pretty fire. It came during inventory week which means I haven't had time to wipe my own ass much less play mafia BUT. I should have time tomorrow night/Sunday afternoon.

Please no crazy hammers before then. I want to say hi to people. I want to shit talk and live life and make some wrong guesses before we get swept up into darkness and ffery yet again gets us killed somehow.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

I can’t sleep but I may be drunk on wifom but if Mastina and Titus are scum together and she doesn’t want Titus then Titus.

But what if she knows that I would revote Titis with that post .....

(Back and forth a lot)

Could do either

[penguin_alien]

Afternoon Vote Count 1.12

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (1): Battle Mage
Titus (6): sangres, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade
SirCakez (3): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus
mastina (2): Bell, GreyICE

Not voting (3): Tammy, Prism, Kitty Trauma Team


Mod notes: 61/85 pages used

[SirCakez]

reading
I am going to be EXTREMELY BUSY for the next ~10 days so my posting will be infrequent

[SirCakez]

I think her early posts addressing MathBlade directly seemed Town. Even mentioning policy limming didn't bother me, I perceived it as her trying to get Mathblade's head out of his ass. I also think Titus' early interactions with LLD lean way more Town than Scum.

Someone else talked about this but I think this is actually scummy Spiff. She was practically egging him on at certain points.

1304 is the towniest post in the game, from anyone. The fact that MathBlade is a contender to be limmed today is a travesty.

If I am alive (probably will be) then we can focus on Dunn tomorrow.

I actually thought it over what LLD is doing and I am not sure she has a choice. I think her messing up the gender may be a clue. I think the artifact is making her push me. In the show when a person was whammied with the comb they started talking strange. Lemme check something in thread after work.

This is the moment I went from "Maybe if I sit down and REALLY think about MathBlade for a few hours, I can understand him for alignment" into "I will never in a million years understand this slot"

This is actually the single most insane post I have ever read in a mafia game

indeed
lol

Town: {Bell, sangres, Tammy, Mathblade, Kitty Trauma Team}
Townlean: {SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Prism, LLD*}
Null: {Pooky, mastina, Titus, GreyICE}
Scumlean: {quiet, Battle Mage}
Scum: {Dunnstral}

*If LLD is mason, she's obviously confirmed town. This is where she is in the reads list if she's lying about the mason claim. Because apparently that's a thing.

Random thoughts:
I made this reads list a little top heavy; I'm open to reevaluating my Town reads down the line but I feel good about a lot of people and I wanted my reads list to reflect that. If I were being conservative I'd probably put KTT in Townlean and bork, Prism, and LLD in null.

To elaborate a little bit on the Mathblade read, I felt from the beginning that there's no reason for Mathblade to thrust himself into the limelight during the Prism Flavor Saga (which is a good title for a fantasy book series). When met with a ton of pressure after his flavor arguments, and declared the lim for the Day by the claimed mason, he doesn't back down, which tells me he's anything BUT survivalistic as a lot of people are trying to characterize him (this is probably the first place I'm going to look for scum in the event Mathblade is mislimmed, btw). I find myself agreeing with a lot of his later posts, such as his reach out to KTT and SirCakez as TvT (although he seems to be back on the Cakez is scum train?), and his recent exchanges with Titus always leave me questioning Titus and completely understanding where Mathblade is coming from. I already cited 1304 as a the towniest post in the game and I stand by that an hour and a half later.

KTT wins most improved: From humble beginnings as an early scum lean, they have catapulted themselves to one of the top spots in my town pool thanks to both heads' recent posting.

Cakez feels natural and isn't trying too hard to be a badass so he's probably Town.

I almost put GreyICE in the scum lean category, I didn't like his first several posts where he emphasized how he didn't care about the Morning phase, and I don't like how the majority of his content is wrapped up in picking apart mastina's walls. These interactions with mastina don't really fit with the rest of his play style this game. Like cool we can all find some shit wrong with mastina's posts in every game she plays, regardless of her alignment. I felt, and still kinda feel, that getting into a back and forth with mastina of all people would be easy for scum to do because it makes a big show of "scumhunting" when it doesn't really accomplish anything. But then I remembered his first post where he immediately checks mastina's ISO for a scum read, so there is precedence for his focus on mastina. And I seem to recall GreyICE pretending to give a shit every time I've seen him as scum, and his early posts don't really point to that. So all of this cancels out into a null read, congrats. Be more readable pls

I hated Battle Mage's vote on Mathblade, he had a previously stated town read on him and his justification for the 180 in the read was that Mathblade was being survivalistic which I already explained is like the exact opposite way I would characterize Math's behavior. He also had a post that rubbed me the wrong way about SirCakez having a great scum game, which to me seemed to fuel the fire of the ongoing Cakez paranoia at the time without really contributing his thoughts on Cakez in a meaningful way? Felt like scum taking a potshot from the sidelines. And while I was Scum in both Xenoblade and Pooky vs. FL (I sound like a broken record) I thought Battle Mage was super obviously Town in both those games and I don't get those vibes here. But I also didn't give a fuck about reading him in those games so take that with a grain of salt.

here is the Spiff content I enjoy

[SirCakez]

I completely agree with the rest of your townreads/townleans though I think SC might be lower

you keep taking these potshots at me. are you actually gonna reeval me or just keep saying "hmm he could be scum not sure"

sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8) - Null (their reachout sole reason
2. Tammy - gtmh scum, nothing done since midmorning
3. borkjerfkin - gtmh town
4. SirCakez - scum
5. Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo) - town
6. Lady Lambdadelta - can go eat rocks, anti-town
7. mastina - gtmh null
8. Bell - town
9. Spiffeh - lean town, could be whitenighting
10. GreyICE* - gtmh town
11. PookyTheMagicalBear - town
12. Titus
13. MathBlade - needs death
14. quiet - lurker scum
15. Prism - meh
16. Dunnstral - sheeping this from Spiffeh so scum
17. Battle Mage - town

this readslist is truly terrible
she has one real scumread (me), a LHF universal scumread (quiet), a sheep SR, and then whatever the hell those reads on Tammy and Math are
also like LLD said she has been pretty restrained and cooperative this game so calling her antitown is just ridiculou

I EAT AND FART TOWNVIBES

~M

@mala you should sig this

[SirCakez]

I am beginning to wonder if quiet was just overwhelmed by this game and flaked as opposed to him being scum lurking pre-replace out
I don't like how everyone just sort of shoved him into their SRs

[SirCakez]

Battle Mage went V/LA right? He does feel less present then normal atm but I felt his early game was transparently town.
I'd rather just stay on course with Titus anyways. I think we've got her dead to rights.

Hi I would like to say I love literally everyone in this playerlist and hope they are doing well

I have never been more excited with a playerlist on this website than I am with this one, and am glad to be playing with all of you <3

I hope everyone that is scum gets limmed tho

Spiffeh man this post is terrible even if you were drunk/high like I'm guessing

[SirCakez]

revised
I'm also moving KTT up a little bit because I liked that recent stream-of-consciousness post Kuribo (I think?) made
I think I might have mole/deepwolf scum in my "don't want to yeet" pool

want to yeet: Titus, Dunn, Pooky
would yeet: mastina
considering yeeting but would not yeet atm: Spiffeh, KTT
idk: GreyIce, Bork, Quiet
don't want to yeet: sangres, Tammy, BM, Math, Bell
never yeet: Prism, LLD

[SirCakez]

I have kinda been giving Tammy a pass here because of the disaster in Popcorn Mafia
Sangres is just tough for me to read; ffery always seems insanely town to me

[sangres]

And yes, no matter how much you will say she was redeemed and wasn't truly villainous and all that--she literally spent two centuries bronzed, in containment, in confinement; she didn't get bronzed initially for being a good virtuous agent wrongly imprisoned; she got bronzed because she was a threat to the warehouse. And when she was unbronzed, she was STILL a threat to the warehouse. She was redeemed, yes. But why is it more likely that penguin_alien chose her time after redemption for her, than penguin_alien chose her time before redemption for her?

She wasn't bronzed because she was a threat to the warehouse. She was bronzed at her own request, and according to her own words she saw that bronzing as a form of time travel to the future. A future which upon arrival, horrified and disappointed her. Her daughter's murder, possibly the century+ spent conscious and completely immobile, and the state of the world when she was unbronzed worked together to unhinge her, but she was an apprentice agent in good standing during the WH12 days.

Also, ~110 years is not exactly two centuries /nitpick

The power of the trident in this game, as claimed by Prism and confirmed by Bork isn't something earthshattering and on the face of it isn't something explicitly anti-town.

I think you're trying to go off old and unverified memories about the series, and maybe you didn't follow it all that well in the first place. At least that's the charitable interpretation I can come up with for this kind of incorrect, but wrong in ways that bolster your theory crap.

As far as Prism's stated intent to change up how they play, tonally I'm not not seeing more abrasiveness than I did in mini 2181. At all. It's not that easy to shift playstyle, depending on what you're trying to shift, though I think Prism can shift abrasiveness more easily than most if they want to. 2181 was an extremely frustrating game at times for both alignments for a host of reasons, and I think Prism's abrasiveness that came out in that game was way more situational than tactical. I'm not seeing out-of-place abrasiveness (or much abrasiveness, but I'm a little color-blind in that emotional range) in Prism's play here. They're reacting pretty much in kind to snark posted in their direction. My game experience with Prism isn't extremely deep. I have more mod experience than play experience.

I still hate pretty much everything about your Prism case and I don't think you're going to shift that with more of the kind of posts you've made here. I doubt you'll be able to shift it at all, because I see way too much potential scum intent/benefit in what you're doing.

I have kinda been giving Tammy a pass here because of the disaster in Popcorn Mafia
Sangres is just tough for me to read; ffery always seems insanely town to me

We have what, 2 mutual games? I was town in both, and basically a mason in one of them. That's not very much data to make an "always seems" sort of statement? I have a very recent scumgame out there in meta land if you want some comparison. Or, maybe do more to engage us.

I have some very slight paranoia niggles with Tammy's play. Fortunately I'm hydraing with a Tammy expert and won't have to figure her out completely on my own.

[SirCakez]

For some reason I thought we had more together
Well then let's say in our games together I always find you to be town