Newbie 2055: City Lights [game over!]

[team rocket queen]

Though... If Kitty is mafia, HUB has some problems, because if I'm not mistaking he defended him the whole first day. He was ready to play fast with Russians, though in my opinion Kitty wasn't enough in the thread to judge him enough. And even tried to defend Kitty from FBJim in the end.
Something like that Battle Mag is now doing with Floo.

this also feeds into the openwolfing thing, because if the tides were to turn away from flow trap on day one it would have been towards kittytacky, as fbjim and i had discussed that option,

[Battle Mage]

battlemage's view of the game

it also feels very like, concrete? not mobile? like it is now stated the same as at daystart and that does not feel like battlemage is considering what is happening?

I literally posted an explanation of the changes to my reads and rationale for them - are you really serious here? it's fair to say they haven't changed much from day start, given relatively little has happened thus far in Day 2 compared to Day 1. however to suggest they are static is clearly false - and this is not the first time today you've shaded me in a way which is evidentially disingenuous and bad-faith.

[Battle Mage]

i think you're working under the misconception that it's null because i have no opinion. in fact, i do have plenty of opinions but the pro's broadly balanced against the con's. I don't think you're covering yourself in glory so far today, although i value the engagement.

i wasn't working under any conception because there was no explanation previously beyond, 'null'

what are some of those pros and cons

still waiting on this

keep waiting. this is fairly low on my priority list, and will wait until I'm not V/LA.

[team rocket queen]

I literally posted an explanation of the changes to my reads and rationale for them - are you really serious here? it's fair to say they haven't changed much from day start, given relatively little has happened thus far in Day 2 compared to Day 1. however to suggest they are static is clearly false - and this is not the first time today you've shaded me in a way which is evidentially disingenuous and bad-faith.

you had floo as null and now you have floo as town because 'gut' based on one post today

but okay continue saying i am shading you when you simply say i am 'null' based on 'pros and cons' but definitely mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town, simply because the game feels like that to you

[team rocket queen]

like it just feels like you are shading me and saying that i am shading you

[Battle Mage]

battlemage's best posts to me were probably the one about openwolfing and the followup,

I get the sense from your responses to me that your objection to my reads are largely driven by the fact I think you might scum - you took specific objection to the fact I think either you or HUB are scum.

[team rocket queen]

I get the sense from your responses to me that your objection to my reads are largely driven by the fact I think you might scum - you took specific objection to the fact I think either you or HUB are scum.

i do not understand this view of the game, and i try to ask more about it many times, but very little has helped my understanding, so

[Battle Mage]

I literally posted an explanation of the changes to my reads and rationale for them - are you really serious here? it's fair to say they haven't changed much from day start, given relatively little has happened thus far in Day 2 compared to Day 1. however to suggest they are static is clearly false - and this is not the first time today you've shaded me in a way which is evidentially disingenuous and bad-faith.

you had floo as null and now you have floo as town because 'gut' based on one post today

but okay continue saying i am shading you when you simply say i am 'null' based on 'pros and cons' but definitely mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town, simply because the game feels like that to you

It's interesting how much shade I'm getting today for not having detailed explanations for my reads, when I haven't yet seen a strong case for Floo-scum?

I am unapologetically a player who uses logic, evidence, wagonomics and gut feeling to make my reads. If you have a personal issue with the way I play, that's completely on you - it's not alignment indicative for me.

[Battle Mage]

I get the sense from your responses to me that your objection to my reads are largely driven by the fact I think you might scum - you took specific objection to the fact I think either you or HUB are scum.

i do not understand this view of the game, and i try to ask more about it many times, but very little has helped my understanding, so

do you think it's unreasonable for me to deduce you are overly pre-occupied with perceptions of yourself, at the expense of finding mafia? that's my feeling, the more you brow-beat me about my take on you, rather than setting out your own views and justification. Particularly when you are so critical of mine.

[team rocket queen]

It's interesting how much shade I'm getting today for not having detailed explanations for my reads, when I haven't yet seen a strong case for Floo-scum?

I am unapologetically a player who uses logic, evidence, wagonomics and gut feeling to make my reads. If you have a personal issue with the way I play, that's completely on you - it's not alignment indicative for me.

vasex's post count case is strong

i do not, i would simply like you to explain that logic evidence et cetera to me, so i can understand it, and see if it comes from a town perspective,

[team rocket queen]

do you think it's unreasonable for me to deduce you are overly pre-occupied with perceptions of yourself, at the expense of finding mafia? that's my feeling, the more you brow-beat me about my take on you, rather than setting out your own views and justification. Particularly when you are so critical of mine.

yes it is unreasonable because i can be doing both at the same time, like you having a strong opinion that stays overtime that is restated but not explaining the reasoning,

[Battle Mage]

like it just feels like you are shading me and saying that i am shading you

i feel exactly the same way about you. the difference, i suppose, is that your shade on me has been based on weak and false premises as pointed out when they came up. It feels like OMGUS, but that in itself isn't necessarily telling about your alignment.

[team rocket queen]

like you having a strong opinion that stays overtime that is restated but not explaining the reasoning,

and i know that this opinion is wrong so i try to see if it is a considered opinion but it seems to just be one that you have and are going to keep without giving reason

so that feels like mafia agenda to me

[Battle Mage]

It's interesting how much shade I'm getting today for not having detailed explanations for my reads, when I haven't yet seen a strong case for Floo-scum?

I am unapologetically a player who uses logic, evidence, wagonomics and gut feeling to make my reads. If you have a personal issue with the way I play, that's completely on you - it's not alignment indicative for me.

vasex's post count case is strong

i do not, i would simply like you to explain that logic evidence et cetera to me, so i can understand it, and see if it comes from a town perspective,

sorry, the case on floo is that floo didn't post much?

i admit I was intrigued when I saw Vasex argue HUB and you must be town because you posted a lot...but wasn't Vasex also on the wagon to elim the highest poster in the whole game yesterday?

As you are a logic player, and calling me out for being a gut player, I'd like to see you set out your own logic in a way I can clearly and fairly assess. No rush though!

[team rocket queen]

As you are a logic player, and calling me out for being a gut player, I'd like to see you set out your own logic in a way I can clearly and fairly assess.

i do not understand why you view me this way

or what you are asking me to do

[Battle Mage]

do you think it's unreasonable for me to deduce you are overly pre-occupied with perceptions of yourself, at the expense of finding mafia? that's my feeling, the more you brow-beat me about my take on you, rather than setting out your own views and justification. Particularly when you are so critical of mine.

yes it is unreasonable because i can be doing both at the same time, like you having a strong opinion that stays overtime that is restated but not explaining the reasoning,

you're continuing to imply my opinions have not changed here - I've already illustrated that they have. However, to be clear, it seems a ludicrous attack to have made anyway, given we're 24 hours into my first actual gameday, and I'm on limited access.

[Battle Mage]

As you are a logic player, and calling me out for being a gut player, I'd like to see you set out your own logic in a way I can clearly and fairly assess.

i do not understand why you view me this way

or what you are asking me to do

that's fine - let me be clear.

1. You explain your entire case for Floo scum.

2. Then I want to see Vasex's case for Floo scum.

3. Then I will use my logic to assess them.

I want you to do this first, given when I first asked you just deferred to Vasex.

[team rocket queen]

you're continuing to imply my opinions have not changed here

who to eliminate is the same as it was and has not been explained, why i am null or possibly scum has not been explained, and also unchanged

1. You explain your entire case for Floo scum.

2. Then I want to see Vasex's case for Floo scum.

3. Then I will use my logic to assess them.

I want you to do this first, given when I first asked you just deferred to Vasex.

i am not actively trying to eliminate floo; i simply think they are one of the three most likely mafia, based largely on lack of content

low content slots, especially those who are not actively engaging with what is happening at the time when they post as opposed to what has come before, are far more likely to be mafia

[Battle Mage]

like you having a strong opinion that stays overtime that is restated but not explaining the reasoning,

and i know that this opinion is wrong so i try to see if it is a considered opinion but it seems to just be one that you have and are going to keep without giving reason

so that feels like mafia agenda to me

which opinion do you "know" is wrong? 1 of you or HUB being scum? Please tell me how you "know" that to be the case - I ask this without fear of fishing for role-based info you are not willing to share, given your earlier expression of support for a massclaim (which incidentally, I don't think is the best course of action today with no PRs outted).

[team rocket queen]

which opinion do you "know" is wrong? 1 of you or HUB being scum? Please tell me how you "know" that to be the case - I ask this without fear of fishing for role-based info you are not willing to share, given your earlier expression of support for a massclaim (which incidentally, I don't think is the best course of action today with no PRs outted).

that i am mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town, as i am town regardless of their alignment, and it does not make sense to me that my alignment is tied to theirs in your opinion

[Battle Mage]

you're continuing to imply my opinions have not changed here

who to eliminate is the same as it was and has not been explained, why i am null or possibly scum has not been explained, and also unchanged

1. You explain your entire case for Floo scum.

2. Then I want to see Vasex's case for Floo scum.

3. Then I will use my logic to assess them.

I want you to do this first, given when I first asked you just deferred to Vasex.

i am not actively trying to eliminate floo; i simply think they are one of the three most likely mafia, based largely on lack of content

low content slots, especially those who are not actively engaging with what is happening at the time when they post as opposed to what has come before, are far more likely to be mafia

Let me put it to you that:

A. I am completely sympathetic to the idea of elimming a lurker, and have found there is good correlation between lack of activity and scum alignment amongst newbies in newbie games.

B. Notwithstanding point A, yesterday's elim was pretty gross and Floo wasn't on the wagon. My strong preference is to elim somebody who was, as there's a good chance both scum were, and I'd say it's virtually certain that 1 scum was.

[team rocket queen]

B. Notwithstanding point A, yesterday's elim was pretty gross and Floo wasn't on the wagon. My strong preference is to elim somebody who was, as there's a good chance both scum were, and I'd say it's virtually certain that 1 scum was.

i mean, sure, i can get behind kittytacky for this reason, in addition to my earlier reasoning, but i don't see how that makes floo town or not one of the three most likely mafia either

and i already said your points about openwolfing might be good, so it's just that again but at the same time, eliminate from the wagon! is good position for scum!you to take as well, so it is hard to evaluate

[Battle Mage]

which opinion do you "know" is wrong? 1 of you or HUB being scum? Please tell me how you "know" that to be the case - I ask this without fear of fishing for role-based info you are not willing to share, given your earlier expression of support for a massclaim (which incidentally, I don't think is the best course of action today with no PRs outted).

that i am mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town, as i am town regardless of their alignment, and it does not make sense to me that my alignment is tied to theirs in your opinion

let me put it bluntly. Yesterday 3 SE's ran up a newbie who was fairly obviously town. I don't believe all 3 SE's screwed up. Additionally, from my experience, I trust my instincts, and my instincts are that there is at least one experienced player pulling the strings for scumteam here.

Don't take it personally. A combination of wagon-analysis and intuition.

[team rocket queen]

but at the same time, eliminate from the wagon! is good position for scum!you to take as well, so it is hard to evaluate

especially if partner is also off wagon,

[Battle Mage]

B. Notwithstanding point A, yesterday's elim was pretty gross and Floo wasn't on the wagon. My strong preference is to elim somebody who was, as there's a good chance both scum were, and I'd say it's virtually certain that 1 scum was.

i mean, sure, i can get behind kittytacky for this reason, in addition to my earlier reasoning, but i don't see how that makes floo town or not one of the three most likely mafia either

and i already said your points about openwolfing might be good, so it's just that again but at the same time, eliminate from the wagon! is good position for scum!you to take as well, so it is hard to evaluate

aside from kitty, your other 2 suspects were floo and me? You're going to struggle to persuade me that I'm scum. Lack of posting from Floo isn't enough of a case for me today given how yesterday went. In a different game, different situation, maybe it would be. But not here.

I'm slightly torn on HUB. Watching the absolute railroading of a newb-town yesterday was gross. And HUB is a very good player, so it would surprise me from HUB-town. Also not keen on the quietness so far today. But it's also super conspicuous, and maybe too obvious. But then, counter-point, clearly it wasn't that obvious if I'm the only one calling it out. However, as noted, I'm willing to give HUB another day to demonstrate being town.

Tbh scum-me doesn't ever come into the game like this - my slot was pretty clean amongst a mass of utter filth. If I was scum here, I'd just cruise to a win rather than rocking the boat.