Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Bell]

Insert expression of outrage and surprise that Mathblade thinks there's a traitor in this game.

I mean regardless of his alignment, MathBlade ALWAYS thinks there's a traitor in the game.

Like, legitimately, he has like...suggested a traitor in most of his games, and always posits the existence of one in scum PTs even when the setup would provably say there aren't any.

That said it is something I tend to, overall, see more from scum-MB than town-MB tho.

This whole post is a buddy post. My post was very obviously sarcasm. You know I'm aware of the meme in addition because I joked about it in the Cell PT which you were part of and undoubtedly read.

Or maybe I'm just being an unfriendly person.

1692 @Sangres, @Spiffeh. @LLD. Thoughts on this post?

[borkjerfkin]

Cakez is the only real scumread of hers. I no longer think talking about the two players she's hated playing with all game is that AI from what we've seen.

It's just a really easy thing to talk about because it's inherently NAI to do so and is the sort of thing i might do if i felt short on opinions as scum

I know that titus is stating that cakez is the only true scumread she has, but again that seems predicated by the scumflip of another slot that she isn't sure is scum (because her argument is that cakez is trying to deflect away from an inactive buddy), which also seems like a weird thing to think.

there are some other progressions here i don't like such as saying tammy's fall behinds are NAI (1268) and then proceeding to scumread tammy for not doing anything for a while (1455) despite having a townread there earlier

[Prism]

So in general I feel better about MathBlade as far as them not just intentionally spewing whatever mechanically speculative garbage first comes to mind, several of these progressions are actually consistent/follow a clear direction (Town!Prism as long as not HG, oh Prism is HG, Prism is scum) even if potentially scumdriven. Others are...still very ??? like the sangres scumslip and LLD excitedly helping push the p_a/Cabd transphobic agenda. I dunno. Internally consistent trash is better than internally inconsistent trash.

Math-really curious as to where your early townread on GreyICE comes from if you don't mind talking about that. You called him town extremely early on, then later liked his comment about you/Cakez coaching, but curious as to where this originated.

919 and 933 are serious mastina+Math redflags but IDK, trying to make sense of whether the voteswap in 935 is +town or Math is just trying to be chaotic as scum is incredibly difficult

I'm sorry-you saw I started with a scum-utility artifact, and suddenly I'm town? What just happened?

Scum you doesn’t give it away + a combination of LLD outed mason. You’d give it to a buddy.

So if you’re scum you’re scum with Bork

Which is kinda stupid on so many fronts it solves itself

I really want to revisit this, because the swing on me was extremely hard and on a dime, and I don't think this really groks. Your working assumption all game was that I was willing to give away an artifact as scum in exchange for towncred. The fact that it turned out to be an extremely niche/limited utility PT blocker shouldn't really change this, should it? Me lying about the power wasn't ever really on the table; and me giving away a +town use artifact would make a

lot

less sense as scum than me giving away a minorly +scum one.

I'm about halfway through Math's ISO so not done yet.

[Prism]

Looking a bit later it looks like you're implying I don't confirm masons as scum, but that's really weird given that I made my artifact choice N0, before masons are known/outed, and it's not like scum can really contest the masons anyway.

[MathBlade]

Looking a bit later it looks like you're implying I don't confirm masons as scum, but that's really weird given that I made my artifact choice N0, before masons are known/outed, and it's not like scum can really contest the masons anyway.

See you’re not thinking like a scum/balance setup

Artifacts generally (not always) would need viability for town and scum.

So if you were scum you’d know there would be a neighborizer or mason.
That would be valuable information that if you were scum and Bork was town you don’t give Bork.
So you scum Bork town is out.

Then let’s look at you scum Bork scum. You would confirm LLD town at the expense of not being able to stop to their hood because you outed the power? If Bork used it that would scum firm him.

So the only possibility left is you town.

Apologies if this is confusing trying to respond while playing a board game online with friends

[Prism]

So if you were scum you’d know there would be a neighborizer or mason.

That would be valuable information that if you were scum and Bork was town you don’t give Bork.

So you scum Bork town is out.

I do not believe this is true-you weigh the value of the information vs. the value of the gambit, where this specific bit of knowledge is actually not that valuable for town to have-but this is a counterfactual in any case.

After finishing the ISO I'm pretty lukewarm. I understand a lot more about Math's progressions, which have consistency, but I'm not sold they're necessarily town; a lot of the reactions, esp to LLD, feel very rote to me. I'd vote mastina over Math in every world.

Moving onto reading Titus.

[Prism]

Still curious for more about your current thinking on Grey, bork too actually: you've put them in a section about townblocking but I'm wondering more specifically how you got there. "One of Prism/bork" might be rejected but I'm interested in specifically how you've arrived at bork being town, since me town doesn't imply bork town imo.

[Prism]

Also-you've referred to Spiffeh as obvtown a few times; do you think he whiteknights you like this as scum? I'm wondering how you got here, too, even though I agree with the read.

[MathBlade]

Still curious for more about your current thinking on Grey, bork too actually: you've put them in a section about townblocking but I'm wondering more specifically how you got there. "One of Prism/bork" might be rejected but I'm interested in specifically how you've arrived at bork being town, since me town doesn't imply bork town imo.

Current thoughts on Grey are pretty hard without addressing his mason claim and whether or not I believe it is a bit dicey.

I think that he doesn’t do some things here as scum (like fake claim mason) or antagonize me. It’s more a “vibe” I just don’t see him doing that.

Everyone has different meanings for white knight but I would say probably not? I am going with the “buddy” meaning here btw. It would be easier to sheep LLD mason. It would be playing on hard mode. He’d probably have been “convinced” or “warming up” to scum!me by now if he was scum.

[Prism]

Sorry, I said "current thinking on Grey", I meant earlygame since you TRed him basically out of the gate for what I thought were frankly meh posts, that's my fault, completely wrong phrasing.

Not really sold on the "Doesn't buddy me" angle? Spiffeh scum knows it has a high chance of going through regardless of what he does. Are there other reasons you TR the slot?

[MathBlade]

I realized I never addressed Bork. Apologies. I was lukewarm on him but his posts got better as time went on.

And I don’t have to sell you today unless you’re planning on flashing Spiffeh. I think Spiffeh’s progression is solid and he just doesn’t ping me. Similar with Tammy I think we’re in a rock solid place atm. There’s just really good vibes there

[Prism]

I really hate to say this but I now think Titus is pretty town. I'm only up through the first 60 posts but Titus's worldview is clear, ex. Dunn hiding behind LLD demotivates her further, this didn't come up only recently but has come up repeatedly. Great progression on Bell with 604, 605, 614. 636 actually is trying to work with Math.

Leaping off of this the entire sequence regarding Math's read on Bell beginning in 636, resulting in a vote on Math in 656 is great. They're legitimately trying to dialogue with Math, not at all setting him up to fail, and immediately gets frustrated when Math shuts down any hope of basic discussion.

Her catching posting was great. Read on sangres is both contrarian and well thought out, had clear evolution beforehand, 1267 is solid statement of concerns. Followup about Grey in 1268 is also good. I ~don't really like~ the vote on me in 1270 if mastina is town but that's a big if and I buy it since Titus hasn't really engaged with my slot before this. Post about SC not following up on the meta was A+++, progression about me/Cakez team was also very clean when the VCA comes in.

Finally, there's just still some tonal things I like, both around sangres/Dunnstral but also around Spiffeh like in 812.

[Prism]

I'm onto SirCakez but right now my vote preference would be mastina->quiet->Math->???, and I'm willing to wait for a quiet replacement.

[Prism]

And I don’t have to sell you today unless you’re planning on flashing Spiffeh. I think Spiffeh’s progression is solid and he just doesn’t ping me. Similar with Tammy I think we’re in a rock solid place atm. There’s just really good vibes there

I will be voting Spiffeh exactly never, I was wondering what made him obvtown to you out of the gate for the purpose of sorting you.

Actually that's a lie I will absolutely flashwagon and vote Spiffeh at the start of gamedays.

[penguin_alien]

Afternoon Vote Count 1.14

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (2): Battle Mage, Bell
Titus (6): sangres, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade
SirCakez (3): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus
mastina (1): GreyICE

Not voting (3): Tammy, Prism, Kitty Trauma Team


Mod notes: 67/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

[Prism]

I might not be giving Spiffeh enough credit as scum tbf-this is a big step up from Xenoblade where I got owned by Guillotina of all people, but that doesn't make him hardtown.

I really like the Dunn push, most of the reason to doubt the read would come from whiteknighting Math or for mostly tonal ingratiating on people like Pooky. Might need to consult Scumsman? Later project for sure.

[sangres]

Insert expression of outrage and surprise that Mathblade thinks there's a traitor in this game.

I mean regardless of his alignment, MathBlade ALWAYS thinks there's a traitor in the game.

Like, legitimately, he has like...suggested a traitor in most of his games, and always posits the existence of one in scum PTs even when the setup would provably say there aren't any.

That said it is something I tend to, overall, see more from scum-MB than town-MB tho.

This whole post is a buddy post. My post was very obviously sarcasm. You know I'm aware of the meme in addition because I joked about it in the Cell PT which you were part of and undoubtedly read.

Or maybe I'm just being an unfriendly person.

1692 @Sangres, @Spiffeh. @LLD. Thoughts on this post?

It wasn't obvious sarcasm, though I thought sarcasm was likely. You have a deadpan that I can't always see through. See my wtf in Illicit day 1 when you voted midwaybear.

Anyway, I'm quite willing to move my vote to mastina, but I was really hoping for something more substantial from Titus. :/

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If we hit 85 pages before the magical Nacho hour I might be making a punitive vote wherever I think it does the most good for day 2.

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Tammy you're worrying me.

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I'm going to be afk for an hour or so, but I will check back in before I hit the sack.

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vote: Mastina

Just doing it.

[Prism]

I actually do want to revisit this Spiffeh read sooner than later, that was not at all the point of my question about him but thank you MathBlade.

Next up after Cakez I guess.

[Prism]

Thoughts on 1711 ffery?

Sorry for the spam, might start trimming because 18 pages

[Bell]

1692# was a math post.

Meh, it's all right Prism. I'm following along on your posts.

VOTE: Mastina

[Prism]

Okay, I skimmed Xenoblade to remind myself what Cakez scum looks like. Extremely defensive and scared and the only even remotely brave posts are freebies/Cakez clearly doing what he thinks is the "required" response.

Looking at the start of this game this is already a much more proactive and less selfconcerned Cakez that is willing to press, give reads, and not at all playing on the defensive/self-conscious end.

I'll finish up but I'm very comfortable slotting this as a townlean, if someone has meta of Cakez scum looking even remotely like this feel free to link but the constant proactivity/questioning here with a focus on others, without seeming too worried about being perfectly understood or playing safe, is extremely good imo.

Posts like 164, 265, 594 are the ones giving me this impression.

[Prism]

Yeah I really like the aggressiveness in the 600s from Cakez, probably need to do a better job tracking the reads progressions but this is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the scum Cakez I have seen.

[Prism]

Cakez, can we talk more about your Titus read? What makes you so confident in having her dead to rights? I see the delusional stuff in 1391, I'm not as familiar with Titus but I absolutely buy it, and I don't see as many issues with the reads wall as you do in 1568. In particular, I think her stances on Tammy, mastina, and the lack of stronger scumreads besides yourself are really questionable as scum. These also largely match up to what I saw from her thinking in her ISO.

This does remind me that I should reread her specifically to check out the progression on you.

[Spiffeh]

Uh sorry I am too tired to catch up rn, will do so tomorrow morning and should be around most of the Day to get a hammer if necessary

Less than 24 hours to til deadline FYI

[Prism]

Okay, I tracked the Titus progression on SC, it's a bit of an abrupt turn that goes from liking the slot mostly on gut/feeling the same emotions into a scumread based almost entirely off interactions with me after she buys mastina flavorcase. She doesn't like the results that come from pressuring his slot on the Pooky vote+meta request for me and here we are. Good progression imo.