Newbie 2055: City Lights [game over!]

[KittyTacky]

Of course today it's better to hang floo. The cop check one of the other sus people.

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I just had like, a vision of a vasex/jim team and that probably just means I'm too tired and need to sleep lol

[Vasex]

I said to check Floo if he's not hanged today

If you are hanged today, we'll know your role (townie from your POV), so why do you need the check of floo, who is the scummiest player in the game for you? And not only for you. So there is a total waste of the check if the check is "floo = mafia"

[KittyTacky]

I said to check Floo if he's not hanged today

If you are hanged today, we'll know your role (townie from your POV), so why do you need the check of floo, who is the scummiest player in the game for you? And not only for you. So there is a total waste of the check if the check is "floo = mafia"

I mean... fair enough on a second thought.

[KittyTacky]

Honestly any result will be good tomorrow if we don't hang scum today. Then we know who to hang, or who to trust. I think the cop should come out next (in-game) day with results.

[team rocket queen]

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

???

??????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really can't get over this

like

happy unbirthday boon is town because it defended me in a way which would be almost gamethrowing

if i flipped mafia

happy unbirthday boon is town because it's not my mafia partner is something

and how is this possibly a read for town!kittytacky

what would it even mean from a town perspective

I meant that if I was really his scumbuddy then he would be very, very sus if he failed to defend me after trying so hard. Thus, unless there's a bunch of WIFOM involved, this is a townread on me. Or am I wrong?

if you are town, then you already know that happy unbirthday boon is not your mafia partner, and thus there is no reason to townread them for not being your mafia partner...

[Datisi]

Vote count 2.07

with 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-03-06 01:45:00).

elimination

floo [2]:

KittyTacky, Vasex

KittyTacky [1]:

Battle Mage

Battle Mage [1]:

Happy Unbirthday Boon

Vasex [1]:

floo

Not voting [2]:

team rocket queen, FBJim

mod notes

~ have a nice day!

flavour

[KittyTacky]

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

???

??????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really can't get over this

like

happy unbirthday boon is town because it defended me in a way which would be almost gamethrowing

if i flipped mafia

happy unbirthday boon is town because it's not my mafia partner is something

and how is this possibly a read for town!kittytacky

what would it even mean from a town perspective

I meant that if I was really his scumbuddy then he would be very, very sus if he failed to defend me after trying so hard. Thus, unless there's a bunch of WIFOM involved, this is a townread on me. Or am I wrong?

if you are town, then you already know that happy unbirthday boon is not your mafia partner, and thus there is no reason to townread them for not being your mafia partner...

Of course I know I'm town. However other people might not so surely it would work for them. Why would I need to prove to myself I am town?

[KittyTacky]

I don't think your counterargument makes sense because townreads are meant to prove to other people that you, and/or other people are town.

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

Going

other than "what is flow trap's deal"?

Ydrasse's posting but relative non-activity is more concerning to me than the non-posters right now, if i'm not being too paranoid about the page or so of off-topic stuff on P3 when semi-serious discussion was already occurring among other players

selfishly i'm also curious about HUB's scum-read on me. if we want to know more, probably could put the thumbscrews to both of us.

what does 'concerning' mean to you, and do you think that it's scummy?

why not press on it with a vote?

what's behind your townread on vasex, by the way? responses bothered me at the moment but i'm finding them relatively easy to read as legitimately upset.

also, is there anyone that you townread right now? it looks like you've been casting doubt on players thus far.

fbjim seems alright to me right now

flow trap probably still mafia? i skimmed, im tired, i just read those posts and i think "oh wow, this feels scummy." might be confirmation-biasing my self into it but nothing has made me waver from it.

welcome fairyprincess!

fairy’s more likely than jim but pretending i’ve read them closely won’t do us any favors, this is a phantom impression

and frankly i don’t know if they do or don’t and are probably just looking at the material reality of your vote

Going through Ydra's iso, I can see fairy or Jim both being slots that would likely prioritize a Ydra kill. Jim gets lightly townread but is still in her POE, and it's also possible that, given the way Battle Mage was heavily pressing the "doctor" crumb angle, he could have killed Ydra for 698 more for a potential intention to cop check his slot?

Not too much here, for some reason I thought Ydra had more developed reads. Still usually her early gut-takes are pretty good

[Vasex]

Some experimental thinking from other sides

What does mafia feel now? What are they thinking about? You can choose from 1 to 4:

1. Silent apathy. If Floo and Kitty are scummies, they almost don't have ways to win. There is also no dead PR by the way, they should have bad feeling about this. That's why they don't resist much. I need to say here, that Hub, trq and Jim are also rather out of the game now. But there can be also real-life reasons... I can understand. But if I look only on posts, the most apathic person is Kitty (for example the momenr when he firstly agreed after the night, that floo is scummie, and other lazy posts after that). Output: Kitty and Floo.

2. Silent triumph. Floo and Kitty are townies. Who are scummies then? Bm and Jim? Hub and Jim? Bm and Hub? Is it trq with smb? I don't feel any triumph in this pairs, even if it is very silent. I feel tension between everybody. So I hope that we've got at least one scum among Kitty-Floo. Or maybe some pair doesn't play much only because they are boring to win so easy... Trq and Jim? Hmmm. Hub and trq? I don't think they would play so much together from the beginning (I remember how he found her townie again after 'bah'-joke, lol). And if trq is townie and BM and HUB are not together, we have only one option for triumph: smb with Jim. Output: Jim.

3. Readiness to lose the partner. This is common strategy to win the game for mafia, when one of them in a bad situation. Bm and Kitty. Jim and Kitty. Trq and Kitty. Floo and Kitty can be here a bit... It is difficult to find the second one, but we can see Kitty in every option. The only problem here if Kitty is townie... But if we agree, that it is not triumph (p.2), Kitty is mafia according to this p.3. Output: Kitty.

4. Not readiness to lose the partner (so they are trying to win tomorrow both alive 2 vs 2). Bm tries to save Floo. Hub tries to save Kitty. Floo didn't hammer Kitty, when he could. Jim unvoted not to lose Kitty because of a possible hammer from trq. Output: Kitty.

Yeah, I still have smth like this:
Elim without a check Kitty/Floo.
Check here - Hub/BM/Jim.
For the PR it should be easier to reduce this list of actions.

My bet - Kitty and Floo are both scummies.

[Vasex]

And again I need to say that if the first one only one in Kitty-Floo, it feels tgat the second one on BM/Hub.
But maybe Jim is also can be here, sometime I think about that much

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

flow trap wrote:
In post 146, KittyTacky wrote:
Dodging questions is seen as quite scummy where I come from.


Last game I had a PR read on something which caused me to dodge questions, please do not proceed with this

Well you soft-claimed PR way back. Mafia is likely to target you anyways since a PR dying is good for them regardless of what it is but your soft-claim provides no info to us. Share with the class.

This is a strawman

What? My point still stands. You bring no info to town but you bring to mafia all the info they need. You already outed yourself as a PR.

Your lead will die with you if you get nightkilled or hanged because of your stubbornness.

Do you know what a joke is?

I'm about to go into analysis but here is my base skim reads as of now:

Leaning Town: Kitty/FBJ
Neutral: Floo/Fairy/TRQ/HUB
Leaning Mafia: Essay/Vase

Vase - At first I didn’t like their immediate looking into me, but their explanation was adequate. I don’t like their explanation to TRQ’s “knows mafia must talk! to seem towny” as they could have said it to seem towny. I fail to see the “asking approval and complementing another player on a page 1 vote.” May have shaded FBJ in #37. I don’t like their Caberet defense, I don’t think it needed to be said. I still don’t really get why they singled out their voters other than OMGUS. I don’t like post 96 from them, I don’t see town saying this, this early. Them questioning people & reasoning out pairs is a plus. Also, them continuing after saying they were done was also a plus. -

Toss Up

Fairy - Their posts seem normal, also they SRed floo again, awaiting more. -

Null Town

Floo - I really like post 83, it mimics their previous town game; however, I don’t like 86 as it is non-sequitur. The rest of their posts are solid. -

Leaning Town

Kitty - The main thing going is their frivolous reason for suspicion on me. I don’t think scum would do this as it is very easily refuted and would put them in a bad light, but I’m not sure how to feel about them sticking to it. I would really like them to have real-time responses at one point. -

Leaning Town

FBJ - Question; in post 15, why was “supposed” in quotes? Their beginning was solid, but they quickly went into non-sequitur territory a bit. Their actions make sense with their explanations (I think your reads are biased to more serious players, it happens just informing you). -

Leaning Town

HUB - Started with a seemingly procedural opening, so not much to go off of in that matter. Is mildly out of sync at the start, but that seems like a HUB thing. Their defense of Vase was weird, as was the “SAD FACE OF SCUMMINESS”! They seem like a type to have good gut reads & mid games, so as of now -

Toss Up

Essay - Their entrance was suspicious as I’ve consistently seen “showboating” done by scum. In fact, this is about 70% of their posts so far. Also, ignored/dodged my SR. -

Leaning Scum

TRQ - Good opening, I get serious town vibes (as in a town that is playing seriously). This continues throughout the game despite half the cast having lighter tones. It also provides good reasoning to vote me. I believe TRQ has the ability to do this as scum but for now -

Null Town

This is interesting to me because despite getting into a slightly weird argument with KT flow trap consistently holds him as town. It's also concerning that both of flow trap's remaining townreads are being heavily pushed by Vasex as the most probable world. I'm not sure I agree with all of flow trap's reads, but they are flipped town so it is good to understand how they were approaching the gamestate; also seems like the townread on fairy/BM was predicated on floo being scum

Vassex you are the most towny and scummy player so far

the more this game goes on the more I agree with this lol

why in gods name are there three votes on vasex

VOTE: Happy Unbirthday Boon

Now there is not

Go on...

More of a why not

FBJ - TR
Floo - TR
Kitty - TR
Vassex - Was already on them
Essay - Secret reasons
Fairy - Didn't feel like switching of off Vase when they suggested it
TRQ - Dynamics

continues to hold floo and kitty as TRs, and seems to have downgraded fairy based on re-evaluation of floo while still holding vasex as scum

And Vassex hasn't provided a reason at all

VOTE: Vassex

Want to compare this to Jim's wagon analysis

I suppose the problem throughout here is that the KT take is basically a "too scummy to be scum" take, whereas the floo take is based on meta.

[Vasex]

And I've got some problems to find the reasons why TRQ cannot be with Jim (except my very early thoughts about "go on"). Not much conversation between them, careful analysys from Jim about trq, and I don't remember much from trq... That's strange. And not in anime vagon together.

So in sum you are all mafia scums except me

[Vasex]

HUB, before I forget, is it weird that Floo said that he found readlist of flow trap genuine? Then flow trap said tgat it was a fake... Maybe I understand smth wrong...

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I don't remember being super whelmed by sluggy, but let's review there. The slot has a combined 130 posts already so, idk

ah hello boon, you're krazy right? shadowslug here, now we can officially have a true battle of wits

i'm not sure about your russian communist bloc comrade, i might have to be an anarchist... that being said, good first impression from vasex. i like him trying to move the game forward almost immediately, n stuff.

I'm actually not a fan of the soft discredit on KT being townleaned here

why in gods name are there three votes on vasex

this is actually kinda scummy since it's not really directly engaged with any of the three votes?

pretty much every slot has had some sort of negative/shading interaction with flow trap, i really don't think they're partnered with anyone, and their playing almost identically to their town meta from last game

TMI? Like idk, I find it weird to be thinking about partner interactions day 1

After this slot reps out. Sluggy's iso wasn't super scummy, certainly, but I'm not really feeling townpings either

top TRs: FBJim, Vasex

top SRs: Kittytacky, HUB

these were my reading-during-night-phase takes:

top townreads: FBJim (too townie for school), Ydrasse (assuming crumb substantiated)
moderate townread: Vasex (just seems townie)
null: floo, team rocket queen
top scumreads: HUB (open-wolfing hard?), KittyTacky (that apologetic E-1 vote was pretty gross)

Probably for the best Ydrasse died, as a VT claim after that crumb would've been instant-death. But Ydrasse did a great job of drawing the NK so kudos.

I want to elim KittyTacky today, and give HUB benefit of the doubt for now I think.

The most jarring thing for me here is, how does BM enter the dayphase having Jessie as null? At this point I feel like Jessie was the most consistently engaged and solvy player throughout day 1, I thought her handling of the hammer was good, but BM starts with Jim (???) and the dead town above her. I'm also intrigued by having Vasex as tier 2 town; like if he just seems townie why isn't he on tier 1?

i've played many games with ydrasse. if i'm scum, i'm for sure killing ydrasse there, and if i'm town, i'm for sure elimming ydrasse on a vanilla-claim.

don't like this

VOTE: kittytacky

returning to this, I actually think I'm going to look at some isos before reading the second half of this iso again, but there is a world where this is an early day 2 bus. Like the early insistence of this vote might be how some scum might handle this game if we're in A or C; afraid of one of the two getting cop-checked, BM might assume that either he or his buddy has been redchecked and that it is therefore good to get distancing in while the distancing is good.

Still, for me it's mostly just jarring how aggressive BM has been on this push. This is *not* a meta comment btw, more as a replacement he came in feeling very tunneled almost? It feels kinda weird to me

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

HUB, before I forget, is it weird that Floo said that he found readlist of flow trap genuine? Then flow trap said tgat it was a fake... Maybe I understand smth wrong...

at this point it's not surprising at all, it could easily be that flow trap faking a readslist made it seem more real than their usual reads lists

that reminds me I need to check which of the three was faked lol

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

man yeah wow, still frustrating to make sense of ft's iso, even now it's hard to remember which was the fake reads list, and then it's also clear that the "mason" jokeclaim with me was not even because they townread me but just for lulz, like I jokeclaim masons all the time but it pretty much always reflects my actual reads, it's like they were just saying words

I usually try to at least evaluate the takes of the dead to help me parse my thoughts but maybe analyzing their iso is actually not helping much after all

[Vasex]

this is actually kinda scummy since it's not really directly engaged with any of the three votes?

I dont think so about this post of fp, because before that I talked about she can be pocketing me (I provided her quotes about me), but next time she still comes with this post about three votes on me... too scummie for scummy?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

And I've got some problems to find the reasons why TRQ cannot be with Jim (except my very early thoughts about "go on"). Not much conversation between them, careful analysys from Jim about trq, and I don't remember much from trq... That's strange. And not in anime vagon together.

So in sum you are all mafia scums except me

You still think Jessie might be scum?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I dont think so about this post of fp, because before that I talked about she can be pocketing me (I provided her quotes about me), but next time she still comes with this post about three votes on me... too scummie for scummy?

I don't really follow what you're saying but I think town would usually ask that question and then engage with some of the votes specifically

[Vasex]

The most jarring thing for me here is, how does BM enter the dayphase having Jessie as null? At this point I feel like Jessie was the most consistently engaged and solvy player throughout day 1, I thought her handling of the hammer was good, but BM starts with Jim (???) and the dead town above her. I'm also intrigued by having Vasex as tier 2 town; like if he just seems townie why isn't he on tier 1?

Maybe BM always tries to become a leader? Smth like that. His attack was directed to SE's, and the third SE is killed by that moment. Is it common for him? I can imagine such a person, he sees himself a leader, maybe always?

[Vasex]

I know lots of experienced players who prefer attack each other the whole game, and usually they are townies while doing that...
By the way, he had rather strong attack to you in the moment, when he blamed you that you still don't see him as a townie ("but you should") and avoiding the dialog with him (bad argument for now because of v/la, but you still have time for this)

[Vasex]

So do you find BM-townie with ease, HUB?

[Happy Unbirthday Boon]

I kinda went into Jessie iso reread kinda just hoping to lock town in. I still think she veers heavily town, but I'll explain the scum-Jessie world I guess

daka daka daka

still totally town opening lol

I tend to use a lot of hyperbole and/or "jokeclaim" masons day 1.

Hey mason buddy

for those who took it upon themselves to read flow trap games; does it stop being

this

at some point?

this doesn't read like scum planning a FT misflip d1

hm well if flow trap is mafia happy unbirthday boon is probably town since 'ahh that was a towny response i might be wrong about this' would make the counter wagon on fbjim ineffectual

this is generally good analysis, but now with FT flipped it does suggest one possible world of Jessie/Jim (i.e., playing with anti-partnered pairings to obfuscate read of partner)

uh... i don’t understand what you’re asking jessie can you rexplain?

have you ever thought

hm, i am struggling with this as mafia right now, i will say that someone else is! or any other thought you had throughout

also, thoughts on 350

I mostly did this in Q+ because I need to reread this in context to understand what it means

VOTE: vasex

in retrospect I'm not sure what this vote is doing

it's like, why, outside of fbjim who is +town to me, noone is currently trying to find a mafia who isn't possibly flow trap,

even though like {fairyprincess, floo, kittytacky, ydrasse}

right?

liked fairyprincess's first series of posts, did not like their presence when considering hammer on flow trap,

floo missing something that would be super apparent to mafia has been the only town point there

kittytacky these recent posts feel like 'just want flow trap hammered', which flow trap will say happy unbirthday boon is the same but does it really

feel

like happy unbirthday boon is not doing a thing because to me it really

feels

like happy unbirthday boon is doing a thing which makes town the more likely option

no notes on ydrasse

I don't really mind Jessie having Jim as a townread, but I'm not sure I totally understand where the Jim townread comes from throughout the game. Still, it'd probably be scummier if Jessie had no townreads

flow specifically appealed to me about vasex which like, from him it’s more a survival thing but yeah

do you believe that the mafia believes that i want vasex eliminated?

This post is kinda NAI, I think I really liked it at the time but I think it's also possible to be like "oh I'm not pushing to end day" as scum too

i wasnt avoiding it, i just couldnt keep up with your prolific posting - it's quite evident i was responding to a range of posts in quick succession - suggesting otherwise is completely disingenuous.

you were not responding to them in the order they were posted which makes my brain ask 'why why why' and makes it feel like there must be a reason that one was being skipped for other ones

this actually feels like really good engagement with BM/FP slot

i do not understand the question. happy unbirthday boon openly said masons with vasex and then accepted masons with flow trap as a fallback,

and happy unbirthday boon is alive so i did not understand what you meant by if you 'claim' you must be eliminated or what have you

kinda don't like the insistence that my explicitly explained jokeclaim was a realclaim

currently thinking both mafia in {battlemage, floo, kittytacky}

Again, tend to like solving since I think town will tend to be pretty fast to establish a flip order, although do have to watch for 'over-certainty' -- I don't mind moving Vasex out of this pool at all, but I still don't understand why she's moved Jim out I guess? Again, not intrinsically disagreeing

It's more that:

UNVOTE:

pick a direction for us

what questions are most pressing to you right now

what are you most curious about outside of non-posters

how do we learn what we want to know

Because I'm a PR

well, fair is fair, i did ask for a bad reason

UNVOTE: team rocket queen - things are getting less random

go on

Though... If Kitty is mafia, HUB has some problems, because if I'm not mistaking he defended him the whole first day. He was ready to play fast with Russians, though in my opinion Kitty wasn't enough in the thread to judge him enough. And even tried to defend Kitty from FBJim in the end.
Something like that Battle Mag is now doing with Floo.

this also feeds into the openwolfing thing, because if the tides were to turn away from flow trap on day one it would have been towards kittytacky, as fbjim and i had discussed that option,

These posts generally feel pretty town, *unless* they are Jessie trying to coach a scumbuddy in-thread. So basically, I think Jessie is town, or she is scum with Jim. But I think given how many other problem slots there are in this game, this probably means she's just town. I was hoping to be like "Jessie is hard town, never ever scum," and I think that's the most likely world we're in, but there is *a world* where Jessie flips scum I guess. I don't think these feel performative like Jessie would be trying to pocket a town Jim, rather this feels more like how a scum would be trying to position their buddy as a townblock to keep pressure off them.

But I think the engagement with Battle Mage in particular generally implies that in most worlds, Jessie flips town