TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[OkaPoka]

because following through on a bop for the sake of bop is stupid

[Cephrir]

bop is for players who are normally accurate

[innocentvillager]

i want mastina to answer this question lol

[Almost50]

bop is for players who are normally accurate

I thought it was for Cyndi Lauper

[mastina]

Since its not exactly subtle in the first place I'll acknowledge that I can see mastina is acting like she has something on jjh and I'm doing mental math on how much I care about factoring that in. I think this could easily be her having fuck all and pretending, and I'm not really inclined to trust her after how painfully and aggressively wrong she has been to this point.

Then table it for one bloody day--jjh is off-limits for D4. Revisit the subject circa tomorrow since after the universal backup turned neapolitan claims we're probably in massclaim territory anyway.

dann went down suspecting titus.

Dann also suspected Bell if you'll recall.

she just magically flipped them to the top of her readlist because of ~reasons~

I just spent ~30 minutes doing research trying to prove how Titus's hard-push on Luca was incredibly unlikely to be that of a scumbuddy and that the hercule+Luca/Titus interactions were incredibly unlikely to be scum-scum.

And then in the attempt to prove it, coming up empty on the field and all but disproving my point.

So Titus could be scum again I'll admit.

jjh however stays there at the top tho.

[Cephrir]

Then table it for one bloody day

yeah, i can do that.

[Winter Flakes]

It doesn't feel like a sheep when I'm the only one voting you

Your initial vote on me was 100% a sheep. You hadn't brought me up at all as a potential SR until other people had voted me.

Okapoka is the only other wagon up at the moment that I would consider and my feelings aren't very strong there

Granted, I don't scumread you very hard, but I do scumread you the hardest

Okay, that's fine. But *why* do you scumread me the hardest? You're still yet to provide any reason as to why you do. This just doesn't seem like a genuine read at all.

If I was just sheeping wouldn't I have moved my vote

...because I literally called you out on sheeping and that you're just trying to look as though you're doing something, so it would've looked awkward for you to unvote me, especially as you yourself have just stated you don't really have any strong feelings elsewhere? There's plenty of reasons why you'd stay voting me.

[Winter Flakes]

@mastina

since you're TRing jjh so hard

want to explain why he's voting me? look through the ISO and give one reason outside of a weak ass sheep of another slot that he's still voting even after i've tried to engage with him about the vote that he's still refusing to acknowledge

is that common behavior for town!jjh?

Mastina

please answer

is jjh a lazy town player or something? because it's either that or he's just flat out scum this game

[innocentvillager]

meh, maybe mastina would be powerwolfing d1 but d2 and d3 have been the regurgitation of the same few arguments rebaked over and over

tl;dr this for me?

[OkaPoka]

meh, maybe mastina would be powerwolfing d1 but d2 and d3 have been the regurgitation of the same few arguments rebaked over and over

tl;dr this for me?

well tell me what you like about her d2 and d3 gameplay

[mastina]

since you're TRing jjh so hard
want to explain why he's voting me?

Well jjh is perfectly capable of answering that question himself and even with my townread on him that doesn't mean I am a magical mindreader capable of seeing into his head but it would be fairly safe to assume the answer is that he thinks you have a reasonably >rand chance of flipping scum.

i think i need to see some meta examples of scum!mastina powerwolfing like this to start seriously considering the mastina wagon
because as I see it, her play here is for sure outside the scumrange of most people on MS

Speaking of which: while I can't go into the details behind it for reasons not too hard to guess, Bell should be WELL aware that my play this game isn't something scumastina can pull off given he's seen what the most recent level of scumastina is.

But if you want examples of me power-wolfing, the first ever example was Good vs Evil, Chaos vs Law. It was, however, simultaneously both a singleball and a multiball game so I'm not sure if it counts as a singleball powerwolf game. (This was the first game however where I actually evolved my scumplay tho.)
Next I can find is this one.
This is one of my all-time favorite effort scumgames.
This is probably the most powerwolf game of all, however, you may note I was in a hydra with Katsukii; of the 500 posts, I probably made like...50 or so of them. It was 90% Katsukii 10% me.
I'm honestly not sure but this might count as a powerwolf game.
This was another powerwolf game.
I'm also not sure but this one might count.
For 75% of the game it definitely wasn't an example but in the last 25%, this game was one where I even said "oh well, I did try". (I didn't initially but did eventually.)
(I'm not sure whether to include Left 4 Dead 2 Mafia--it is only of my most infamous scumgames of all time due to my infamous open D2 scumclaim and I posted a shitload, but while it was a power-manipulation game, powerwolfing implies a level of deepscumming utterly absent.)
Attack on Titan is definitely an example (there were three competing wagons on the three scum D1, I managed to help our team get to 4p mylo after avoiding a D1 scum elimination).
Paranoia is up there with Mindreader and L4D as one of my favorite scumgames of all time. (Notably, I technically fooled AP. Technically.)
This might count, not sure tho.
Probably one of the main games people think of when they think of me powerwolfing would be Inorganic Chemistry; it's one of my finest scumgames of all time.
Star Wars Rogue One was an accidental example--the

plan

was for the Pine/Ginngie hydra to be our deepwolf, with me to be the sacrificial lamb. But they got cop guiltied, and that gave me the needed towncred to deepwolf my team to the win.
Green Day UPick is the game where I was mechanically confscum yet almost still talked my way out of it so that definitely counts as a powerwolf game.
Team Mafia 2018 wasn't deepwolf but might count as powerwolfing, not sure tho.
XP Mafia was one of my finest scumgames where I talked my way out of a mechanical guilty in lylo.
Encore Mafia almost definitely counts.
A Story Revisited probably counts (tho near the end I was struggling).

There's a couple mini normal games I'm struggling to find (one in my mastin2 days, one modded by schadd_), both of which would count, might be missing a few themes here and there as well, too.

However, my last, and

only

, recent powerwolf game was MBOS Sylver.

So this is pretty much every single powerwolf game I've ever had, sans maybe 1-4 that I struggled to find.

[mastina]

since you're TRing jjh so hard
want to explain why he's voting me?

Well jjh is perfectly capable of answering that question himself and even with my townread on him that doesn't mean I am a magical mindreader capable of seeing into his head but it would be fairly safe to assume the answer is that he thinks you have a reasonably >rand chance of flipping scum.

i think i need to see some meta examples of scum!mastina powerwolfing like this to start seriously considering the mastina wagon
because as I see it, her play here is for sure outside the scumrange of most people on MS

Speaking of which: while I can't go into the details behind it for reasons not too hard to guess, Bell should be WELL aware that my play this game isn't something scumastina can pull off given he's seen what the most recent level of scumastina is.

Gonna requote this post with the non-self-meta parts removed tho, for clarity.

[Winter Flakes]

you're familiar with his town game right? does he usually make zero trajectory scum reads? because that's my main issue with him right now

the question is more so why he doesn't have any reason to be SRing me rather than what reasons he does have, because there don't seem to be any atm other than convenience

[mastina]

@mastina why shouldn’t we Bop wagon you today for being wrong on your strongest scumread and townread (at various points)?

Because while my towngame has gotten notably stronger in the last 3 years, there's a damn good reason I've not been nominated for Paragon of Mafia Hunters in that timeframe. (I've been nominated for the

single-game

good town performance, but the

multi-game

good town performance is something I'll never be good enough for because I am nowhere near consistent enough for it.)

I am very good at obvtowning; I am fairly decently good at identifying town and poe'ing the game. But I am nowhere near perfect,

especially

on my scumreads.

I basically have two modes: the mode where I am accurate and threatening enough to be an earlygame nightkill, and the mode where I am around but the scum don't see me as a threat and eventually I become a pain in their side because they never killed me because they didn't think I was a threat but my lategame got more and more oppressive. (Pooky v FL is actually a fine example of the latter; scum literally conceded because I was not a threat worthy of a nightkill to them due to my stances not being threatening but they got better by the end to the point where scum felt they couldn't win against me.)

The former mode is impressive enough to make people think I am a good town player. The latter is a case where for 80% of the game I was objectively

not

one.

It is unfortunate that this game is the latter rather than the former but the longer I live the more likely it is scum lose since I am a royal BITCH to try and mislynch and while me having a wrong townread on scum is good for them, when I have a right townread on town that scum want to mislynch, they have to fight me much harder than they want to in order to get it. (Also ditto for scumreads; while me having a wrong scumread on town is good for them, me having a right scumread on scum presents an ever-looming threat to them.)

And in this game specifically, even if you posit both of {Winter Flakes, Titus} as scum, the fact is I'm all-but-guaranteed to be right about at least one scumread in {AGar, OkaPoka, Bell} just by virtue of the oppressive POE.
If one of {Winter Flakes, Titus} is town, then I am all-but-guaranteed to be right about two scumreads in {AGar, OkaPoka, Bell} just by virtue of the oppressive POE.
And if both {Winter Flakes, Titus} are town, then I am all-but-guaranteed to be right about all three of my {AGar, OkaPoka, Bell} scumreads. Just by virtue of the oppressive POE from everyone else being town.

Even adding Titus back into the pool (which I admit is pertinent after realizing my reasons for thinking she was locktown from the Luca interaction were as far as I could tell actually nonexistent since while I swore I saw them at the time I literally spent 30 minutes searching for them and could not find them at all), that's five names for three scum.

Unless you wanna posit a name outside of those five which isn't jjh (because jjh is town here guaranteed), chances are I'm on the right general track here.

[mastina]

is jjh a lazy town player or something?

Yes.
(Well, not exactly. That's not quite the case, there's a much more longwinded version, but for the sake of simplicity for all intents and purposes, the answer is yes.)

[mastina]

you're familiar with his town game right? does he usually make zero trajectory scum reads?

I wouldn't call his read on you zero trajectory, but yes, I would say that he usually makes reads similar to the read he has on you.

the question is more so why he doesn't have any reason to be SRing me rather than what reasons he does have, because there don't seem to be any atm other than convenience

I can sort of see where he is coming from on you especially from a poe point of view:
IV is very clearly and obviously town.
I am very clearly and obviously town.
Hopkirk has a Neapolitan result on him and is off the table today.
Xtoxm is very clearly and obviously town.
Cephrir is very clearly and obviously town.
Almost50 is by both role and play pretty damn obviously town.

Ythan isn't on the same tier as the above, but overall looks incredibly unlikely to be scum.

If jjh believes all of the above to be true (admittedly I'm not sure about his stances on Cephrir and Ythan tho the rest I feel he definitely holds), then that'd leave {Titus, AGar, Bell, Winter Flakes, OkaPoka}.

For every read within there that jjh thinks isn't scum, the remainder become more likely scum.

But like I said jjh can do a better job of explaining his stance than I am and clarify reads within.

[OkaPoka]

if you have a crushing PoE then why are you afraid to out whether your townlock on jjh is a mech clear or not?

[Cephrir]

it's fine just yeet titus and we can find that out tomorrow

[OkaPoka]

ceph in like a few days im going to be in midterm season and even though ive said ive been busy, when its midterm szn im truly busy and will probably appear in thread to vote and thats about it

and my team has stopped reading the game sooooo

[mastina]

and my team has stopped reading the game sooooo

Were they ever?

Because the last time I heard from your team reading the game, it was literally in the first iteration of the game.

[mastina]

and my team has stopped reading the game sooooo

Were they ever?

Because the last time I heard from your team reading the game, it was literally in the first iteration of the game.

(Which is to say I have already stated that I felt that while OkaPoka's team was clearly reading at least decently well the last iteration of the game, they haven't appeared at all in this iteration of the game and I posit that's a difference in alignment between the two games.)

[OkaPoka]

fuck off

[Almost50]

and my team has stopped reading the game sooooo

Were they ever?

Because the last time I heard from your team reading the game, it was literally in the first iteration of the game.

(Which is to say I have already stated that I felt that while OkaPoka's team was clearly reading at least decently well the last iteration of the game, they haven't appeared at all in this iteration of the game and I posit that's a difference in alignment between the two games.)

I happen to be voting Oka, and so is Xtoxm. Interested?

[Bell]

I thought that Team mafia was where people would be pretty competitive if not for themselves, then for their team. I've certainly gotten a lot of talking from S_S and Lilith or at least it feels fairly close to a 3 headed hydra. Though I've been neglecting them some.
Datasi's pretty checked out though.

Other than Auro and Keely I haven't heard much mention of other people commenting.

[Bell]

I don't want to know what Mastina's town game looked like 3 years ago if this is an improvement, tbh.