TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Almost50]

@IV: Ah. OK. I think Titus is Town here, but the read is getting weaker and weaker due to her continuous unavailability.

Also, her reluctance to use a fully-fledged VCA despite the fact we did have a red flip already is creeping into my soul

[Titus]

@IV: Ah. OK. I think Titus is Town here, but the read is getting weaker and weaker due to her continuous unavailability.

Also, her reluctance to use a fully-fledged VCA despite the fact we did have a red flip already is creeping into my soul

What are you talking about my continuous unavailability. I'll be VLA this weekend but likely still posting some.

Mod: VLA this weekend

[Almost50]

I am talking about exactly this. You are -usually- one of the most vocal players in any given game, and especially so when you are Town (i.e. when you are trying to figure things out). Your play here gives me the impression you are not interested in figuring things out. I dunno if it's actually the case or if it's a false impression I got from you being VLA most of the time, but that's how I feel.

As I said, I still think you are Town for some of the stuff you posted, and some of the stances you've made, but I do miss the "flare". The Titus I'm used to would have done a complete VCA and specified a slot (or two at most) for us to wagon today.

So, if I was to use meta

heavily

I would probably be calling you Scum here. But I only use meta as a secondary/supporting scum hunting tool.

[Xtoxm]

if you make me pick between bell and mastina i don't know what i'll do

the narrative intrigue we play mafia for :3

[Titus]

*shrug*

I'll try to clarify my VCA notes later today. Depression sucks terribly.

[innocentvillager]

it's probably interesting to observe me in games like this one because 90% of my mafia play these days is intentionally selecting games with certain players i enjoy and who i feel comfortable playing second fiddle to, basing my decisions on agreeing or disagreeing or suspecting those players, etc

it appears that without that i go to a very gut based style where i frequently change my mind at the drop of a hat

ok sure thats fine. yeah, i feel i am similar in this respect

I am talking about exactly this. You are -usually- one of the most vocal players in any given game, and especially so when you are Town (i.e. when you are trying to figure things out). Your play here gives me the impression you are not interested in figuring things out. I dunno if it's actually the case or if it's a false impression I got from you being VLA most of the time, but that's how I feel.

As I said, I still think you are Town for some of the stuff you posted, and some of the stances you've made, but I do miss the "flare". The Titus I'm used to would have done a complete VCA and specified a slot (or two at most) for us to wagon today.

So, if I was to use meta

heavily

I would probably be calling you Scum here. But I only use meta as a secondary/supporting scum hunting tool.

i like this take, thanks. my experience of town!Titus is just more energy/engagement as well overall. but i also agree with Titus going through RL stuff it just makes reading her that much tougher

i think maybe some of Titus's earlier posting when she was more engaged might be more AI. ill relook that for my to-do list

[Bell]

I just think you're unfunny and try and pass off scummy shit as "humor" and I think you were trying to nag and prod at the RC thing to see if you could derail a thread into a shitshow of toxicity about a player that isn't in the game. LLD made it explicitly clear how she feels about RC, and that subject had been dead and dropped until you found reason to bring it back up when nothing productive can come from it. I can find two reasons as to why you would do that, and I make a rule of assuming players aren't the stupidest fucking antitown actor that I've ever met.

Agar, I'm not seeing what you're seeing in hopkirk

I don't feel it's all that opaque but I'll properly case it out.

It's more that I don't agree with what you've been quoting so far

For what it's worth I have hopkirk at around null.

I'm not sure how you're disagreeing with the recent stuff, it seems fairly cut and dry.

---

My strong suspicion of Hopkirk is based primarily on two prongs:

1) I think that throwing the "[teammate] was offended by the slander of RC and I'm gonna bring that back up a couple dozen pages later" bomb out there was a specific attempt to derail a strong player who basically BoP'd herself into a tunnel of vitriol and lost focus. Whether it took hold to me is irrelevant - the entire thing was unnecessary and again, I go out of my way to assume players aren't [redacted name] when it comes to "are they scum or are they incredibly incompetent as town?" scenarios. Also incredibly amusing when squared with this post. Makes you think.

2) Hopkirk has on more than one occasion posited something, and then when called on it, backtracked to say he didn't actually mean it

that way

and tried to chalk it up to he just used a word loosely. Throwing Hercule in as a counterwagon to LLD was maybe the easiest example to catch him on and also the one in which he probably thought he could get away easiest. There was a wagon on Hercule, and he legitimately tried to get away with saying he didn't mean counterwagon when he said counterwagon. Sorry, not buying that bullshit.

Lesser notes:

He tried to recycle the point about "appealing to the crowd" against me (by appealing to a crowd, lol), even though it was brought up in reference to folks trying to appeal to a crowd that they were town/how are people buying it, and any appeals I've made have been to convince people to

look at a scumbag

, which - last I checked - was half the battle as town. I dunno, find it pretty scummy that part of the defense would be "Hey he's trying to get other people to weigh in!" because it tells me he has no actual basis to disprove/dispute my read, so he's resorting to trying to undercut me instead.

He's tried to spin everything around that I'm coming at him with as "oh you're just personally attacking me, you're being mean!" when I'm explicitly calling this out as scummy behavior. Again - his best defense has been "oh I didn't mean

counterwagon

when I called Hercule a

counterwagon

". Sometimes when scum tells you they're scum, you should believe them.

I've highlighted problems with 1173, 1176, and 1187 and the gratuitous stretch needed to get those mental gymnastics in place.

---

Ythan being inexplicably cagey with Dann in the early 2200s. And Oka.

---

This:

I read the first half of the game quite closely, but have skimmed most of it since then tbh.

does not square with

this:

It's going to take more than a skim-through to solidify my reads.

And definitely not with having three charmin townreads and no scumreads.

---

Hey

@IV

i doubt it's an intentional misrep from mastina even if she is scum and you feel she misrepped you?

Very weird defense of mastina here. Why?

Hedging to a less commonly applied definition is great for maneuvering how you wish. Retroactively being able to manipulate your perceived stances to one more flattering benefits scum. It's pretty difficult to prove what you meant because communication is flawed and you are not painstakingingly explaining what you mean by what you say. But the fact that either definition could have implied from your sentence structure is a grammatical choice. Also yeah I don't have much proof but I have seen scum default to an argument of fairness or feigned victimization/oversimplifying the arguments made against them. Though I also think that due to the nature of the argument neither side can truly be refuted.

He spent the rest of his time picking at other players reasoning questioning IV, Ythan and A50. It's a plain misrepresentation that he's been playing narrowly.

Hopkirk is still scum, y'all

Bullet points from 2340

• Specifically throwing RC's name out
  at LLD
  , knowing that it could derail the attention of a strong scumhunter, under the guise of a joke is scummy as shit. This was a couple hundred posts and 24+ hours after the initial comment by LLD. Why bring it up other than to throw kerosene on a fire and see if you can derail it? (1142)
  
• Persistent using one word then when called, trying to backtrack and saying he used that word but meant a different thing. This isn't just a mistake one time and going "ah right, I misused that," it's a consistent pattern of trying to weasel out of being held accountable. ([A] 2079 initial + 2089 backtrack.
  2814 initial + 3502 backtrack.)
  
• Recycling previous scumhunting points used by others and deliberately manipulating either the facts of what happened or the intent of the point to fit his narrative to try and bolster fake scumhunting. (2091)
  
• Any pressure has been attempted to be discredited with the insinuation that things are personal as opposed to being scumhunting - discrediting and no actual defense. (1642, 2089)

Additions:

• His reasonings for "locktowning" players have been the kind of garbage that scum make up so they can justify a townread they already have. (ex: 2399 re: xtoxm, everything in 3499)
  
• Supposedly I am his only definitive scumread - I'm separate from the POE pool now, y'all! - yet he has done fuckall to actually get a yeet on me. I've pointed this out in 3851 and 4174. Someone don't want blood on their hands. He's had three days to present any kind of reason as to why I'm scum, but he knows it's all horseshit and he'd rather burden someone else with the bad reasoning by asking anyone and everyone to scumread me.
  
• His posts have an air of "I want scumhunting done!" but lack actual content himself and he would rather burden other folks with that. (3507 asking why no one has analyzed the D1 wagons, alternatively, ISO him and ctrl+f my name and see how many times he just throws "agar?" into replies to folks because he doesn't like that his pet misyeet is being townread.)
  
• 4650 is full of the WIFOM-y bullshit that scum love to throw out there because it can't be proven, it's worthless spec, and it justifies misyeets easily.

[Bell]

To nip this in the bud.
There's a difference between what people think scum do and what they actually do. I'm stating that Agar's expectations are not out of line with a town mindset. That goes back to him acting kinda like a town whip. You could easily copy these expectations and slap them on a town player as scum for failing to be 'townie enough' or misapply it. But from observation I don't think Hopkirk has been terribly step from what Agar is accusing him of.

[Cephrir]

winter flakes (alt of uncrowned) disappeared again like the second i stopped voting him zz fucking z

[AGar]

hint - i wasn't going to like a response unless it contained good reasons to TR agar that i've overlooked, or a shift to a SR on agar because 'oh yeah i read your case and it makes sense, sorry for doubting you Hop.'

"Everyone who disagrees with my read is scum."

Lillith suggested compromising onto Ythan?

Riddle me this: I went to war with Ythan on D2, and you sided by him. I got into a heated argument with Poka

over Ythan

and you used that to push me still. Now you are willing to compromise on Ythan?? How come? In other words; what has changed and/or what did Lillith point put that convinced you?

I... have no intention of voting Ythan?

I found it odd that his teammate suggested compromising onto a wagon that *literally doesn't exist*.

Keely wanted me to just quote your "society is devolving" post back at you, ftr.

That leaves Agar, Hopkirk, jjh and xtoxm.

VOTE: Bell

Brilliant.

[Cephrir]

you point that out yet i do not see your vote on titus!

[mastina]

Fair warning: still V/LA, still depressed badly, still don't feel like posting, but still gonna since I have an opening.

So why did Luca flip when there was plenty of support for town eliminations?

That's why.

[OkaPoka]

ill catch up tomorrow or something this is just an acknowledgement of my existence

[OkaPoka]

i lied

i speedskimmed my hands are diamond okay bye

[mastina]

my team are having a lot of discussion about tft. Flopz is the kind of guy who forces dragonsoul/elderwood mage every game. ugh. cult/keepers is where it's at

Elderwood/Dragonsoul/Mages are insane because of how much synergy and flexibility and ability to pivot is within.

Mage 7 elderwood 6 is doable; mage 7 dragonsoul 6 is doable; elderwood 6 dragonsoul 6 is doable; etc. Those are the most extreme, but more realistic is something like mage 5 dragonsoul 3 elderwood 3 or so. They just have incredible overlap. 4/6 mages are in those two classes, and they pair well. Brand's got good cc when you double it up (imo Nami was better but he's still okay), ASol is a literal nuke even with zero items and his carry items aren't too hard, the classic blue buff gunblade veigar is strong, lulu is a lifesaver to buff the front line, etc.
Elderwoods have a built in Keeper 2 with Xayah-Rakan. Xayah can also give an in to Executioner, but optionally so.
Ornn is strong enough to be picked even outside of his comp, but he's an elderwood too and also a vanguard which pairs well with Braum.
Shyvana Maokai and Nunu are brawlers and brawler 4 slots into the comp quite well.
Oh and IE+Statikk on Tristana is disgustingly strong if you've got a sharpshooter and good dragonsouls to boost it. (Can work well with Samira+Olaf. Sharpshooter + 2/3 of a Slayer comp.)

That said I run just about everything except Spirit. Fuck spirit. I liked Diana more as Moonlight, Yuumi's basically Spirit without the synergy and gives heals and mystics, Kindred you run for Executioner, Teemo you run for sharpshooters. It just doesn't have a carry unit and I don't like it as a secondary support synergy, either.

I'm not too fond of vanguards because they frustrate me--I know that vanguard comps can work, I've been eliminated and devastated by them, but when *I* run them, they never do.

I'm also less fond of full-brawlers. I liked them before, but now they're just not as appealing as Shyvana REALLY wants dragonsoul and you don't have healing and you don't have burst damage until Sett and you don't have healing reduction and your damage over time is slow, too slow if you're up against an anywhere even remotely tanky enemy comp.

But I do have a soft spot for Keeper comps. Granted, they require the right items on the right keepers to deal the needed damage (you NEED healing cut; you NEED tankiness to still be there after the shield wears down; you NEED damage to wipe off half the board before the shield fades), but they're one of my favorite comps to run when I don't have to force a comp for a quest.

That said, again: I basically just take my first non-spirit Chosen and build the comp around it, usually. Unless I roll in the first minion rounds a 3-cost unit that's carry-worthy e.g. a first-orb-Veigar.

Mine are largely silent.

Ditto.

i think jjh is scum.

You think wrong and will be proven so tomorrow. I guarantee you that jjh is town this game.

Lilith wants to know why Mastina is scum reading Agar. She can't seem to find a reason why he's even her 3rd strongest scum read.

Well, combination of AGar's aggression this game feeling like it is a caricature of his play last game exaggerating his rage and anger in a way indicative of him being scum mimicking his last towngame, not liking any of his content, and POE, basically.

thnx 4 feedback
more bell votes

Sure, why not?
VOTE: Bell

[implosion]

46

The atomic number of palladium.
The number of human chromosomes.[7]
The approximate molar mass of ethanol (46.07 g mol⁻¹)

Vote Count 3.11

Bell

(4): Xtoxm, Hopkirk, Titus, mastina

mastina

(3): OkaPoka, AGar, Bell

Titus

(2): Cephrir, innocentvillager

OkaPoka

(1): Almost50

Winter Flakes

(1): jjh927

jjh927

(1): Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1): Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Prodding Winter Flakes.

[Winter Flakes]

bell is ok

Jjh is better

[innocentvillager]

You think wrong and will be proven so tomorrow. I guarantee you that jjh is town this game.

you understand we will policy you short of a literal innocent child claim tomorrow if this is wrong? you sure that's cool with you mastina?

[Cephrir]

I see why people find "resistance" to be an appealing argument. I know it's a bad one but I can't help wondering why I can't get any traction on a slot no one thinks is town

[OkaPoka]

Bc my wagon bigger and better

[Cephrir]

i want to hear mastina's claim tomorrow and then decide what to do with her

[Cephrir]

although i guess hearing it now wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but we're short on time so when she probably claims what she is plainly planning to claim i don't really want us to flail our way into a crummy bell elim like chickens with our heads cut off.

[Ythan]

Can someone walk me through why Bell's conversation with his team is bad when it's just a paraphrase?

[innocentvillager]

Can someone walk me through why Bell's conversation with his team is bad when it's just a paraphrase?

yes this I am waiting on xtoxm and/or Hopkirk to give me their rundown on that

[Bell]

I planned to post today. But I visited my grandparents and my grandma’s oxygen wasn’t attached to the machine. /:
I’m going to focus on this today. Will post tomorrow. Sorry.