Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[skitter30]

Newbie 2055

I have just joined this game I do not have the same sense of time that you do, I've not really been paying attention to what day certain things happen. It seems like a townslip to me because if you were mafia submitting your night kill to kill someone how would you have forgotten the game was going on? You literally had to have done your night action just a little bit prior. I admit I have not looked at time stamps in my reasoning. But if the night kill was completed on 3/5 and samcro's first response to the day phase starting is "I forgot about this game" he's either a mafia intentionally trying to pretend he didn't just do a night action or he is a simply a town who forgot about the game because he's actually VT as he claimd frame 1 and did not have a night action. I assume the night action took place over the course of 3/2-3/5 according to time stamps its understandable a VT may forget about the game. It's not a 100% townnslip but I think it's more likely it was a VT forgetting the game was happening during night phase than a malicious mafia lying about doing a night action to hopefully gain town credit - which is nigh impossible for a mafia to predict I am going to join the game and point that out.

i'm not sure why you're not really taking into account hte possibility that ... he's just lying about forgetting about the game?

[fferyllt]

This is just a reiteration that it's against the rules to refer to other games that are ongoing. Be careful going forward that games you mention have been finished and the game moderator has declared a winner. More about the rule here.

[skitter30]

You're calling Skitter, "Skimmer" and Pooky, "Spooky". It gets confusing on what you mean, it may also show a lack of interest as you apparently read everything so how would you not notice two actives names and end up keep spelling them wrong, did you not notice everyone is referring tho them by different names to what you are?

nah it's probably just autocorrect

[six pomegranate seeds]

pom can you give like a 3 sentence summary of what you think my scumgame looks like please?

No idea I've never played with you. But your signature implies you are a strong scum and a strong scum will not be sussed by the other players when they are scum and will push Miselims on my TRs which is what is happening here.

I think that T3 kill was very out of place when first reading through the game and on my reread his only real SR was you. You can call that a frame but I think it's significant, people who die typically die for a reason T3 didn't really seem like a usual night kill candidate from reading through D1.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Pooky's dying words were that SAMCRO is probably mafia and somehow seeds in their backreading has skimmed over that

yeah just noting that it's fairly interesting that he's giving T3's reads such weight cuz he's flipped town, but isn't really doing hte same with pooky's

Pooky did not have strong reads, he said wow thats not very townie to vote me to prove a point to SAMCRO you're either mafia or misguided town. It's up to the town to figure out whether T3 and SAMCRO are mafia good luck.

T3 said you were suspicious in multiple posts throughout day 1 and was consistent in his SR, it wasn't a vague last second maybe he is maybe he isn't we'll have to find out! kind of statement.

As for the gaslighting statement maybe this is too strong a word but specifically #276 I believe it was it feels to me that SAMCRO is spewing town here and your response is along the lines of "well no one is going to listen to you" instead of getting townpings from his statement. Although I admit later on at some point you do eventually say well maybe that was townie. The "well no one is listening to you" is probably mean to call gaslighting, but it feels like an experienced player bullying on a new player who has them sorted because they don't have anything else to say.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Newbie 2055

I have just joined this game I do not have the same sense of time that you do, I've not really been paying attention to what day certain things happen. It seems like a townslip to me because if you were mafia submitting your night kill to kill someone how would you have forgotten the game was going on? You literally had to have done your night action just a little bit prior. I admit I have not looked at time stamps in my reasoning. But if the night kill was completed on 3/5 and samcro's first response to the day phase starting is "I forgot about this game" he's either a mafia intentionally trying to pretend he didn't just do a night action or he is a simply a town who forgot about the game because he's actually VT as he claimd frame 1 and did not have a night action. I assume the night action took place over the course of 3/2-3/5 according to time stamps its understandable a VT may forget about the game. It's not a 100% townnslip but I think it's more likely it was a VT forgetting the game was happening during night phase than a malicious mafia lying about doing a night action to hopefully gain town credit - which is nigh impossible for a mafia to predict I am going to join the game and point that out.

i'm not sure why you're not really taking into account the possibility that ... he's just lying about forgetting about the game?

I account for the possiblity that he's lying about forgetting about the game in the paragraph above that you quote. I think it is more likely he is a town that is just being honest. Thinking up the idea of faking a townslip then doing it as mafia then praying someone picks up that is a town slip is a lot of thought and effort that I just don't see coming from SAMCRO. I think it is more likely he is just town telling the truth. Do you disagree?

I think the most productive way for us to address each other is for you to explain if you truly think SAMCRO is supicious and wheter you want to vote them and why you think they are suspicious becauase a large portion of my SR on you is coming from you push on SAMCRO.

Otherwise I was rereading the beginning of the game and am open to voting Creative at this point, though I am still more interested in voting you at present.

[skitter30]

ok yeah that's what i figured you would say

sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)

seeds is basically going that last route, by saying that the kill must point to experienced scum, which means me

see lookee here, the 1961 game is the first time it happened and i've seen it happen at least 3 other times iirc.
zenith basically spent lylo hyping up my scumgame and trying to get the other player to vote me because 'she's good at scum!' and basically hyping up my scumgame and trying to scare the other player into voting me

am just assuming they would be a very strong scum from their signature

, and imo strong scum tend to play similarly.

Subject: Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

Hmm... All of a sudden is lagging much less..

I suppose if I were forced to vote someone right now. Due to the events leading to Vork's death I'm most wary of skitter right now.

Plus that skitter signature keeps staring at me.. =\

i have no idea why it's a thing but it's happened a bunch and i've never seen it come from town so like VOTE: seeds

[six pomegranate seeds]

This is just a reiteration that it's against the rules to refer to other games that are ongoing. Be careful going forward that games you mention have been finished and the game moderator has declared a winner. More about the rule here.

Yeah I just won't reference past games from now on I just was responding to Creative.

[skitter30]

As for the gaslighting statement maybe this is too strong a word but specifically #276 I believe it was it feels to me that SAMCRO is spewing town here and your response is along the lines of "well no one is going to listen to you" instead of getting townpings from his statement. Although I admit later on at some point you do eventually say well maybe that was townie. The "well no one is listening to you" is probably mean to call gaslighting, but it feels like an experienced player bullying on a new player who has them sorted because they don't have anything else to say.

yes, i agree that gaslighting is too strong a word, and i don't think i was bullying him either

[six pomegranate seeds]

ok yeah that's what i figured you would say

sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)

seeds is basically going that last route, by saying that the kill must point to experienced scum, which means me

see lookee here, the 1961 game is the first time it happened and i've seen it happen at least 3 other times iirc.
zenith basically spent lylo hyping up my scumgame and trying to get the other player to vote me because 'she's good at scum!' and basically hyping up my scumgame and trying to scare the other player into voting me

am just assuming they would be a very strong scum from their signature

, and imo strong scum tend to play similarly.

Subject: Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

Hmm... All of a sudden is lagging much less..

I suppose if I were forced to vote someone right now. Due to the events leading to Vork's death I'm most wary of skitter right now.

Plus that skitter signature keeps staring at me.. =\

i have no idea why it's a thing but it's happened a bunch and i've never seen it come from town so like VOTE: seeds

So you are going to just double down on omgussing me rather than considering other scum or even explain why you SR sam? This doesn't seem very townie behavior from you to be honest. I am going to tell you for certain that if I am voted I will flip town, and if things continue on present course I will ask town to vote you blindly 100% in lylo. So I hope if this is the route you wish to go down that you are willing to lose the game for town with this omgus.

I have no idea about your past games but I am not pushing you in lylo - I am pushing you here in final 7 with one more elimination. If I am scum and you are town, I would obviously attempt to pocket you rather than pick a fight. I seriously question your judgment here in suspecting me.

I think actually pushing me here is very scummy because I am the only person suspecting you and you won't even have to waste a night kill on me.

You don't seem interested in engaging with my reads at all and instead are very quick to omgus it's hard for me to see that as town.

[Kazyan]

Your towncase on SAMCRO is illuminating, specifically the townslip implication in #213

213 is not a townslip and i'm not sure why it's being read that way

i'm not sure why you're not really taking into account hte possibility that ... he's just lying about forgetting about the game?

I'm reading it that way because, well, what else could it be? It seems really out-there as a lie, to me. If anyone is aware of examples of scum using a similar townslip, though, I'll completely concede the point.

[skitter30]

So you are going to just double down on omgussing me rather than considering other scum or even explain why you SR sam? This doesn't seem very townie behavior from you to be honest. I am going to tell you for certain that if I am voted I will flip town, and if things continue on present course I will ask town to vote you blindly 100% in lylo. So I hope if this is the route you wish to go down that you are willing to lose the game for town with this omgus.

I have no idea about your past games but I am not pushing you in lylo - I am pushing you here in final 7 with one more elimination. If I am scum and you are town, I would obviously attempt to pocket you rather than pick a fight. I seriously question your judgment here in suspecting me.

I think actually pushing me here is very scummy because I am the only person suspecting you and you won't even have to waste a night kill on me.

You don't seem interested in engaging with my reads at all and instead are very quick to omgus it's hard for me to see that as town.

a) i'm not really sure how this is 'doubling-down' given that i never really scumread you before
b) i did explain why i scumread sam, i'm not sure why you're implying i didn't
c) i admire your pluck
d) and yeah, i'm not really sure *why* you chose to pick this fight, but apparently you did sooooooooooo
e) i'm not sure why you're questioning my judgement here in suspecting you - from my pov why is this a bad conclusion
f) the fact that you're scumreading me isn't inherently the problem, the problem is that *i think your read is bad and scummy*. you can't really argue that i'm just scumreading everyone who's scumreading me - i'm not scumreading adante, for example
g) i object to you reducing my scumread to omgus
h) also, not sure why you're saying i'm 'not interested in engagine with your reads at all?'

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-5

A Martian fighting-machine battling with HMS Thunder Child. (1906), by Henrique Alvim Corréa for an illustrated version of the novel

One of the most famous of the early works of fiction about Mars is "War of the Worlds" by H.G. Wells. Unlike "Across the Zodiac", Well's novel was set on Earth and posited a terrifying invasion from the Red Planet. Perhaps more famous than the novel itself, is the radio dramatization of the novel by Orson Welles in 1938. Some panicked listeners thought the dramatization was real.

CreativeName

(2): SAMCRO, Kazyan

SAMCRO

(1): CreativeName

skitter30

(1): six pomegranate seeds

six pomegranate seeds

(1): skitter30

Not Voting

(2): Andante, WhemeStar

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Revised deadline: March 13, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-03-12 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[six pomegranate seeds]

When I'm mafia I love to just snipe a guy who sussed me on d1 and barely anyone reviews logs the way I do and everyone just forgets and continues their current tunnels. T3 didn't do anything close to softing PR and he died over the SEs? And Skitter is just TRing their fellow SE in that situation? When I wake up in the AM with a good player at my side my first impulse is "why the hell are you alive?" Seems like a pocket to me.

- you're kinda indicating you think i have a strong scumgame. i don't just 'snipe a guy who sussed me d1' that way, esp. since (if T3 were vt) i nearly always win a fight against him, you're kinda ascribing a very naive/level-1 reason to the nk while also saying i have a strong scumgame, which don't really add up
- idk why he died, i don't have an explanation for it. i think in a vaccuum me or wheme die most of the time. but i'm town and i townread wheme and i never make that kill and i dont' think wheme does either so :shrug:

Maybe this is really how you play. I have no way of knowing. But I do think honoring the dead is a valid way of playing mafia. I kill people who sus me all the time. If there was a fight between you and T3 today I would have thought T3 was super town. Why does a newer player pick a fight with one of the strongest players in the lobby unless it's lylo.

I also think it's really lazy for you to just bin me in with some player I dont know from a past game. I put out a number of reasons to suspect you and I spent a good number of hours today reading the game carefully. You show up and in a few minutes your all of the sudden coninced I am mafia. And asking me for what i think your scumgame looks like feels like trying to set me up for an omgus, I obviously don't know what your scumgame looks like I have no idea who you are.

If you want to have a conversation with me tell me why you are sus of SAMCO. From what I read you think his bravado is fake. I seriously doubt a new player would play suicidal like that, exactly as T3 stated on d1.

[skitter30]

ffery i'm voting seeds

also i love your flavor :)

fixed, thanks! ~f

[six pomegranate seeds]

So you are going to just double down on omgussing me rather than considering other scum or even explain why you SR sam? This doesn't seem very townie behavior from you to be honest. I am going to tell you for certain that if I am voted I will flip town, and if things continue on present course I will ask town to vote you blindly 100% in lylo. So I hope if this is the route you wish to go down that you are willing to lose the game for town with this omgus.

I have no idea about your past games but I am not pushing you in lylo - I am pushing you here in final 7 with one more elimination. If I am scum and you are town, I would obviously attempt to pocket you rather than pick a fight. I seriously question your judgment here in suspecting me.

I think actually pushing me here is very scummy because I am the only person suspecting you and you won't even have to waste a night kill on me.

You don't seem interested in engaging with my reads at all and instead are very quick to omgus it's hard for me to see that as town.

a) i'm not really sure how this is 'doubling-down' given that i never really scumread you before
b) i did explain why i scumread sam, i'm not sure why you're implying i didn't
c) i admire your pluck
d) and yeah, i'm not really sure *why* you chose to pick this fight, but apparently you did sooooooooooo
e) i'm not sure why you're questioning my judgement here in suspecting you - from my pov why is this a bad conclusion
f) the fact that you're scumreading me isn't inherently the problem, the problem is that *i think your read is bad and scummy*. you can't really argue that i'm just scumreading everyone who's scumreading me - i'm not scumreading adante, for example
g) i object to you reducing my scumread to omgus
h) also, not sure why you're saying i'm 'not interested in engagine with your reads at all?'

I obviously picked this fight because I am town who SR you after reading the game for a few hours. What about my read is bad and scummy? You are just lazily throwing me in a bin with a player from some past game who said "oh look at the signature." Then you ask me a question obviously meant to get me to say the same thing - you even admit your scum game is strong. I never said those words without your prompting. I gave a number of other reasons to SR you. What did you think my answer would be "I think you would be a really terrible mafia who would out themselves at first chance?" I was very open to swapping my vote, but you just showing up and instantly SRing me in 10 minutes after getting home is giving me major scum vibes now. If you are scum you obviously have commited to getting me miselimed and so omgussing the entire lobby is counterproductive - you need them to vote with you.

Doubling down refers to the fact you seem pretty sure I'm scum based on a single reaction test where you basically put words in my mouth.

I am going to flip town 100% if I don't live until the end of this game. If you are town you have completely misread my alignment.

[six pomegranate seeds]

ok yeah that's what i figured you would say

sooooooo in the newbie queue there's this thing that happens where newbie scum get a particular vibe of my scumgame (either via my sig or via an SE partner, in this game the former) and decide to hype me up as a big bad scary scumplayer with a super strong scumgame and a lot of their case ultimately rides on the fact that i'm very good at scum, people should be afraid of my scumgame, and/or the game points to experienced scum

(incidentally i *do* have a very strong scumgame but this particular pattern/hyping it up in this way seems to exclusively happen in the newbie queue, it's happened i think 3 other times now)

seeds is basically going that last route, by saying that the kill must point to experienced scum, which means me

see lookee here, the 1961 game is the first time it happened and i've seen it happen at least 3 other times iirc.
zenith basically spent lylo hyping up my scumgame and trying to get the other player to vote me because 'she's good at scum!' and basically hyping up my scumgame and trying to scare the other player into voting me

am just assuming they would be a very strong scum from their signature

, and imo strong scum tend to play similarly.

Subject: Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

Hmm... All of a sudden is lagging much less..

I suppose if I were forced to vote someone right now. Due to the events leading to Vork's death I'm most wary of skitter right now.

Plus that skitter signature keeps staring at me.. =\

i have no idea why it's a thing but it's happened a bunch and i've never seen it come from town so like VOTE: seeds

Oh and by the way I never said the kill points to experienced scum. I said it points to you specifically (not wheme) because T3 susses you and TR'd your d2 push as an easy town. It reads as you removing a roadblock to your easy miselim because SAMCO played the EOD 1 very sus and no other players were TRing them besides Wheme, but I don't think he openly TR'd SAMCO on d1. There is much more nuance to my read than you are perceiving. Honestly it doesnt feel like you're reading what I'm writing.

[skitter30]

seeds i gotta bounce for rn/tonight but i will circle back later if i can and if not tomorrow (i.e. that means after work)

[six pomegranate seeds]

When I'm mafia I love to just snipe a guy who sussed me on d1 and barely anyone reviews logs the way I do and everyone just forgets and continues their current tunnels. T3 didn't do anything close to softing PR and he died over the SEs? And Skitter is just TRing their fellow SE in that situation? When I wake up in the AM with a good player at my side my first impulse is "why the hell are you alive?" Seems like a pocket to me.

- you're kinda indicating you think i have a strong scumgame. i don't just 'snipe a guy who sussed me d1' that way, esp. since (if T3 were vt) i nearly always win a fight against him, you're kinda ascribing a very naive/level-1 reason to the nk while also saying i have a strong scumgame, which don't really add up
- idk why he died, i don't have an explanation for it. i think in a vaccuum me or wheme die most of the time. but i'm town and i townread wheme and i never make that kill and i dont' think wheme does either so :shrug:

I don't think T3 is a level 1 night kill. I've played enough mafia to know that people's vote pools don't tend to radically change day to day. It is absolutely optimal to remove players who have you in their votepool as mafia, players have a hard time changing their minds on reads as you can see from the SAMCO/creative fight playing out. If you can take out players who will push you next day and make you the center of attention, you absolutely benefit as a mafia. Implying that killing someone who suspected you is low level mafia play and therefore incompatable with your perception of my idea of your mafia play is simply not true.

I admit that my reads can simply be wrong on SAMCO and perhaps I am reading too much into you pushing what seems to me like ez town.

[six pomegranate seeds]

seeds i gotta bounce for rn/tonight but i will circle back later if i can and if not tomorrow (i.e. that means after work)

Ok. This game is turning out to be more stressful than I anticipated to be honest. I'm used to games being over after a couple hours at most and then getting to unwind.

I'll be clear that I am still open towards changing my mind, but I don't think this interaction has made me change my mind about you being scummy.

[skitter30]

that's fair - sorry i just got a massive headache and think i'm gonna lie down for a bit - but i will circle back when i can, i think it's important to address all of your points but dont' think i can atm
out of curiosity, what's your homesite?

[six pomegranate seeds]

I will probably take a breather and think things over.

[skitter30]

sounds good, let's reconvene soon

[WhemeStar]

Ok im here.

Seeds what do you think of creative?
Andante what do you think of creative?

Im much more confident with a Creative vote here than I am a skitter vote.

[WhemeStar]

TBF I haven't read liek the last 2 pages yet.